Opinion Did Taranto and Hopper make a mistake leaving the Giants for Richmond?

[Mr Meow]

Of course you offer Dangerfield another year. I'm just pointing out that if you use the troll's logic then you can't possibly do so. If he's worried how a 27 year old who has had a bad run with injuries might hold up then he must be very very concerned how a 34 year old who has a game built around explosive pace and has suffered multiple hamstring injuries across multiple seasons will hold up.

Thanks for your concern regarding Hoper and our midfield. Probably wasn't such an issue when the Cats were trying to lure him.

Fair enough.

I wasn't trying to be patronising about Hoper. He's still got some hope left. He seems more untidy with his disposal than when he was at GWS but maybe the lack of continuity hasn't helped his hopes.

 

[Grrr]

Fair enough.

I wasn't trying to be patronising about Hoper. He's still got some hope left. He seems more untidy with his disposal than when he was at GWS but maybe the lack of continuity hasn't helped his hopes.

This will come with continuity. His disposal last season was not as bad as this season. Whilst not a good user, he is nowhere near as bad as he was last game. This comes from interrupted games, lack of proper training etc.

People mention Taranto's poor disposal, which is true to a point, but he carried our midfield last year on his own back. He was our leading defensive player, offensive player, hard ball gets, everything. Disposal suffer when you tire. He kicked 19 goals last season from the midfield, very few in that category. Dangerfield for example kicked 11 and probably spend more time forward than Taranto.

Both players need to be settled into a midfield with some quality around them which happens when teams play as regular units, which is the last thing Richmond has been, especially this year but also last.

 

[MisterMarcus]

I am not comparing Dangerfield to Hopper. I'm just highlighting that given you clearly think an injury prone 27 year old is not worth his contract surely you'll be thinking that an injury prone 34 year old is not worth another contract when his current deal expires at season's end.

A 34 year old wearing out as part of the natural order of things

vs

A guy you gave up a huge bounty for to lead your midfield but is already breaking down at 27......

 

[Grrr]

A 34 year old wearing out as part of the natural order of things

vs

A guy you gave up a huge bounty for to lead your midfield but is already breaking down at 27......

Huge bounty? Richmond traded their future first which ended up pick 12 for GWS. Add in pick 31.

That is not huge for a player who had won a B&F and had a couple of injury interrupted years, but could have just as easily gotten over his injuries. It is a gamble as plenty of players have had some injury interruptions, change clubs, change of luck etc. We were desperate for inside mids, as our recent injury woes and retirements have shown. 7 years was a stretch, but getting Hopper was not a huge burden.

 

[Orange crush]

Huge bounty? Richmond traded their future first which ended up pick 12 for GWS. Add in pick 31.

That is not huge for a player who had won a B&F and had a couple of injury interrupted years, but could have just as easily gotten over his injuries. It is a gamble as plenty of players have had some injury interruptions, change clubs, change of luck etc. We were desperate for inside mids, as our recent injury woes and retirements have shown. 7 years was a stretch, but getting Hopper was not a huge burden.

You gave up pick 7 …. The gold coast machinations turned into 12 but it was pick 7, and I think that makes it just a little bit worse. BUT we did give you a couple of picks in the 50s back as we weren’t gonna use them which actually makes it a bit better.

 

[Grrr]

You gave up pick 7 …. The gold coast machinations turned into 12 but it was pick 7, and I think that makes it just a little bit worse. BUT we did give you a couple of picks in the 50s back as we weren’t gonna use them which actually makes it a bit better.

Thanks for those picks in the 50's.... Yes pick 7 was a bit steep, but sometimes you have to pay overs. With Hopper and Taranto out injured, and Prestia continually injured these days, we have Ross (out injured), Dow our primary inside mid, Bolton, should be part-time due to effectiveness forward, Baker maybe but not a mid, 3rd gamer MacAuliffe, Sonsie who should come in after good VFL form, and Pickett, who played his first game in the midfield since his debut.

Up against Serong, Fyfe back in form, Brayshaw and Young. Should be fun to watch.

 

[Orange crush]

Thanks for those picks in the 50's.... Yes pick 7 was a bit steep, but sometimes you have to pay overs. With Hopper and Taranto out injured, and Prestia continually injured these days, we have Ross (out injured), Dow our primary inside mid, Bolton, should be part-time due to effectiveness forward, Baker maybe but not a mid, 3rd gamer MacAuliffe, Sonsie who should come in after good VFL form, and Pickett, who played his first game in the midfield since his debut.

Up against Serong, Fyfe back in form, Brayshaw and Young. Should be fun to watch.

That’s a weird idea of fun .

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Dangerfield is still a match winner (was likely headed for his 3rd time in the coaches votes from his 4th completed game, prior to the hammy) and our skipper, so a one year deal would probably still be worth rolling the dice on given a few others will retire.

The Hopper deal, well it can't really be helped that he has run into injury issues early. I'd be more concerned about his terrible disposal quality with low hurt factor. He makes Taranto look like Ablett Junior, and Tim still does hit the scoreboard plenty himself. Richmond need another high skilled, quality decision maker in the midfield to compliment Taranto's attributes.

Patrick's a magnificent footballer and has been a great servant to both the Crows and Cats. I'd have him in my team of the decade for 2010's as one of the first handful picked.

But I'd be careful using disposal efficiency as a key metric when him comparing to others, especially to Tigers supporters, who remember very clearly some of his really poor games by foot in recent times. Particularly in big finals - 2017 QF and 2019 PF spring to mind, which were both a Paddy clangerfest.

 

[My Tilly]

especially to Tigers supporters

lol the hubris

 

[skinnyP]

You gave up pick 7 …. The gold coast machinations turned into 12

So it was 12.

 

[Orange crush]

So it was 12.

No, it was pick 7

 

[BF Tiger]

A 34 year old wearing out as part of the natural order of things

vs

A guy you gave up a huge bounty for to lead your midfield but is already breaking down at 27......

Here you are comparing Dangerfield to Hopper when the first thing I said is I’m not comparing Dangerfield to Hopper. FMD.

I was looking at Dangerfield in isolation under the criteria that your troll friend had set. Comprende? It’s not that freakin’ hard but I’ll break out the crayons if you need.

 

[Orange crush]

Here you are comparing Dangerfield to Hopper when the first thing I said is I’m not comparing Dangerfield to Hopper. FMD.

I was looking at Dangerfield in isolation under the criteria that your troll friend had set. Comprende? It’s not that freakin’ hard but I’ll break out the crayons if you need.

Watch your crayons, he might eat them

 

[BF Tiger]

No, it was pick 7

It was pick 7 being traded in the knowledge that it would likely be watered down by the time it was used.

 

[Orange crush]

It was pick 7 being traded in the knowledge that it would likely be watered down by the time it was used.

Well as a future first you probably hoped it would 12 being blown out, but yeah

 

[Blackhawk42]

Not that thin. Dow, Hugo RS, Rioli Jnr were all in our best 6 or 8 last night. Young also very good. Brown has talent, 5 games into his career. Best kick already in the side. Reserves 4th even with all our injuries. Played only 6 and 7 AFL players the last three weeks or so. Sonsie best on by a long way yesterday, Smith not far behind. MacAuliffe carry over for AFL, 18 years old. It's not that thin, just starting to get regular games and are being backed in by the coach.

The argument to be made though is that those players might be in your best, but you aren't winning games. So the talent can still be thin even they're still your best players.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I think Bruhn just didn't want to go to GWS. I'm pretty sure he was considering other Vic teams when he chose to come back to Geelong. I'm not sure he would've chosen Geelong if we had got Hopper.

We were interested in Bowes from a long way out. The pick only came about late when it was clear GC had to get his massive back-ended salary off their books entirely or lose a gun kid. Otherwise the deal likely would've been for a throw away pick with GC paying half his wage for 2 years.

Hopper is a good player. From what I've heard Geelong were offering 4 and considering going to 5. Then he came back asking for ~$100k extra over 7 and we walked away. That scale of 7-year deal for an injury prone player was always madness. Combining it with Taranto when 1 inside bull was enough and then overpaying with the future draft pick was completely crazy and has likely set Richmond back years.

Bruhn was apparently accepting of heading to Hawthorn until Hopper flipped and chose Richmond. Once that happened Geelong made him the priority and he was more than happy to head closer to home.

 

[Footy Smarts]

The pick traded for Hopper started as pick 7. That was pushed back to pick 8 at the draft with GC taking Walter. GWS then traded it to Adelaide who took Curtin.

 

[Grrr]

The argument to be made though is that those players might be in your best, but you aren't winning games. So the talent can still be thin even they're still your best players.

You do realise that we lost have lost Lynch two years in a row. We have lost our CHF Balta since rd.3, our centres Taranto, Prestia and Hopper, our CHB Gibcus, and some handy players like Short and Grimes and a bunch of other regulars and up and comers. We lost a good many of them last year as well, second behind WC in '23 for total injuries.

We have done remarkably well to be in most games at some stage into the third Q. If we had a full list, or even a pretty full list things might be quite different.

 

[Grrr]

The pick traded for Hopper started as pick 7. That was pushed back to pick 8 at the draft with GC taking Walter. GWS then traded it to Adelaide who took Curtin.

Mentioned earlier. So effectively pick 8 for Hopper, not that outrageous, 7 years, that's outrageous, but means nothing in the short term.

 

[skinnyP]

The pick traded for Hopper started as pick 7. That was pushed back to pick 8 at the draft with GC taking Walter. GWS then traded it to Adelaide who took Curtin.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Mr Meow]

Patrick's a magnificent footballer and has been a great servant to both the Crows and Cats. I'd have him in my team of the decade for 2010's as one of the first handful picked.

But I'd be careful using disposal efficiency as a key metric when him comparing to others, especially to Tigers supporters, who remember very clearly some of his really poor games by foot in recent times. Particularly in big finals - 2017 QF and 2019 PF spring to mind, which were both a Paddy clangerfest.

Run Dangerfield's disposal efficiency against career score involvements, goals and goal assists then do the same for Hopper. You'll find a massive discrepancy. He did butcher it in some finals against Richmond but also played another 300+ games.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Run Dangerfield's disposal efficiency against career score involvements, goals and goal assists then do the same for Hopper. You'll find a massive discrepancy. He did butcher it in some finals against Richmond but also played another 300+ games.

Gamestyle also matters, Richmond have been instructed to play chaos/territory footy unlike Geelong who generally want to control the ball and move it forward via precision kicks especially in the 2010s.