Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[peetoo]

If the chopper was on UN duty it’s a UN matter?

 

[Goroyals22]

... assuming this is even a true depiction of Albo's response (narrator: it wasn't) this would be a worse reaction to this than trying to provoke China into an actual war - as Morrison did - how, exactly?

Of all the things to criticise Albo for, and you choose this. * me.

Must have been a quick war Morrison had.. how many died?

Poor old albo sent an email or sent a carrier pigeon…. The best he could come up with when asked today was that it was unprofessional.. it’s not a business meeting that’s twice china has gone at Australian troops and the best he can come up with is still buy our wine…

Gutless wonder.


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[Rob R]

If the chopper was on UN duty it’s a UN matter?

In support of UN resolution 2375 and others that China supported and officially still supports but Xi ignores like he does other UN laws like the ruling that the Philippines owns the islands in the West Philippines Sea that he has put missiles all over.

Of course, the UN would have to grow a backbone to actually do anything...

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[Gethelred]

Must have been a quick war Morrison had.. how many died?

I have a question. Can you read?

... this would be a worse reaction to this than trying to provoke China into an actual war - as Morrison did - how, exactly?

Poor old albo sent an email or sent a carrier pigeon…. The best he could come up with when asked today was that it was unprofessional.. it’s not a business meeting that’s twice china has gone at Australian troops and the best he can come up with is still buy our wine…

Gutless wonder.

... I'm fighting the urge to be wildly offensive, because this is remarkably silly to the point of being open idiocy.

Let me get this completely out in the open. From the article you linked:

The federal government has accused a Chinese fighter jet of dropping flares dangerously close to an Australian helicopter on a United Nations mission in international waters.

The Australian defence minister, Richard Marles, branded the incident “unacceptable”.

The helicopter pilot had to take evasive action to avoid being hit by the flares, Marles said. The government raised protests with the Chinese government over the altercation in the Yellow Sea off the Korean coastline.

“The consequence of being hit by the flares would have been significant,” Marles said. “Importantly, the helicopter was unaffected and all the crew are safe.

“This is a very serious incident. It was unsafe and it is completely unacceptable.”

... with Albanese being quoted later on:

Albanese told Channel Nine the Australian public “would expect some form of explanation” and he echoed Marles’s comments that the actions were “unprofessional” and “completely unacceptable”.

So in the first instance, you've just lied to the forum in your initial post by misrepresenting the article you've linked to the degree you have.

Secondly, your criticism of Albanese here is what? That he should do what exactly?

• declare war on our biggest trading partner and a global economic, industrial and military superpower?
• tear up our trade agreements with them, dooming our own economy?
• threaten to shirtfront Xi?

Your statement is that Albanese's response to a threat to our soldiers has been at any point to have a selfie taken with the leader of the opposition force?

Tell you what: how about you prove it. Feel free to supply evidence of Anthony Albanese visiting and taking a selfie with the leader of an government whose soldiers have taken a shot at ours.

 

[Festerz]

There's been some push back on Australia's claims on the helicopter incident - from reputable Australian journalists.

I don't pretend to have a full understanding of the issues here and far be it for me to support China on matters of military aggression. But I do think there is a need for open scepticism on what is being reported when the sole source of information is from the ADF at a time when we are now openly acting as the US deputy in relation to containing China tens of thousands of kms from our own shores.

 

[peetoo]

Just to flip it we have concerns when Chinese military is operating in the Timor sea. Only the UN aspect makes it different

 

[Festerz]

Only the UN aspect makes it different

This is a very important point.

And to be clear the Australian navy is operating as part of UN sanctioned operations against North Korea. There can be no legal excuse for the dangerous and provocative actions of the Chinese fighter jet against eh HMAS Hobart and its helicopter crew.

My post was more about the need for more critical local media assessment of the role we are playing in the broader US actions is containing China and the potential part it is playing in the 'sleepwalking into war' scenario.

 

[Festerz]

Your statement is that Albanese's response to a threat to our soldiers has been at any point to have a selfie taken with the leader of the opposition force?

Of course it hasn't.

But putting aside the troll post you replied to, there is a fundamental question that needs to be asked about what the Chinese action says about Albanese's position on 'stabilising' Aust-China relations.

As the attached opinion article points out, how stable are our relations with China if the PLA keeps putting front line Australian defence personnel at risk?

 

[peetoo]

Of course it hasn't.

But putting aside the troll post you replied to, there is a fundamental question that needs to be asked about what the Chinese action says about Albanese's position on 'stabilising' Aust-China relations.

As the attached opinion article points out, how stable are our relations with China if the PLA keeps putting front line Australian defence personnel at risk?

Yea bloody diplomacy. Let’s get shut of it just in time to relive 1918-48

 

[Rob R]

Just to flip it we have concerns when Chinese military is operating in the Timor sea. Only the UN aspect makes it different

And the dangerous dropping of flares which is yet another dangerous and proactive act by Xis minions.



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[Rob R]

There's been some push back on Australia's claims on the helicopter incident - from reputable Australian journalists.

I don't pretend to have a full understanding of the issues here and far be it for me to support China on matters of military aggression. But I do think there is a need for open scepticism on what is being reported when the sole source of information is from the ADF at a time when we are now openly acting as the US deputy in relation to containing China tens of thousands of kms from our own shores.

Reputable, a journalist who spends his whole career sprouting anti American stories and repeating CCP propaganda whilst of course ignoring facts like the dangerous act itself and that Chinas EEZ claims are actually Korea's under intentional law.

And the actual twitter link is a NZ influencer well known to have sold out to Xi years ago.

The Kiwi journalist defending the Chinese Communist Party

New Zealander Andy Boreham labelled by critics as a China propagandist says he is proud of being a voice for the country.

newsroom.co.nz

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[Festerz]

Reputable, a journalist who spends his whole career sprouting anti American stories and repeating CCP propaganda whilst of course ignoring facts like the dangerous act itself and that Chinas EEZ claims are actually Korea's under intentional law.

You may not like or agree with his point of view. But I think his reputation as a journo is pretty good - perhaps better than yours?

Peter Cronau (Editor) is an investigative journalist, and producer for ABC TV's investigative documentary program Four Corners, and has won numerous journalism awards including the Gold Walkley on the political violence in East Timor in 2006.

In any case, my point is about the need for a questioning media leading to an open and informed discussion to our defence positioning to avoid us becoming part of another Thucydide's Trap.

Anyone who has taken even a casual look at the long list of billions of bungled major defence projects, or how whistleblowers have been treated would not take ADF simply on their word or demand greater transparency.

 

[Rob R]

You may not like or agree with his point of view. But I think his reputation as a journo is pretty good - perhaps better than yours?

Peter Cronau (Editor) is an investigative journalist, and producer for ABC TV's investigative documentary program Four Corners, and has won numerous journalism awards including the Gold Walkley on the political violence in East Timor in 2006.

In any case, my point is about the need for a questioning media leading to an open and informed discussion to our defence positioning to avoid us becoming part of another Thucydide's Trap.

Anyone who has taken even a casual look at the long list of billions of bungled major defence projects, or how whistleblowers have been treated would not take ADF simply on their word or demand greater transparency.

I agree on projects but in comparison to Xi? Especially when the guy is just requesting a well paid employee of the Chinese govt propaganda arm.

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[Rotayjay]

Couldn’t we just model ourselves on the Norwegian model?

Then we could have free education … free uni … high level universal health care… high levels of disposable income… secure retirement .. high welfare standards creating low crime rates, that lower the over all cost of welfare/justice system… social housing, low unemployment, higher life expectancy… state owned infrastructure…

There is no need for a conversation.

It's a utopia, minus the weather!

 

[Festerz]

I agree on projects but in comparison to Xi? Especially when the guy is just requesting a well paid employee of the Chinese govt propaganda arm.

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Yeah. A bit of an over-reach I agree.

Look, I'm clearly not expressing myself well here and this probably isn't the thread for it. I'm certainly not trying to line up behind Xi and his regime and their open aggression beyond their borders.

My frustration goes back to the Morrison government and that shameful middle of the night stuff that led to the establishment of AUKUS and signing up to nuclear powered subs. A deal done aligning us to the front line of the US deterrent against Chinese expansion without any hint of debate or discussion in Parliament or elsewhere. A deal that Albanese signed up to for largely political reasons to avoid defence becoming a wedge issue in the 2022 election.

A deal that not only imposes a huge intergenerational cost burden on us for a capability that exposes us militarily for the next decade and a half at least and may not ever be delivered. But has significantly raised the stakes of us being part of a major conflict without anyone outside of the top tier of government or military really understanding why.

I'm just desperate for some transparent and open critical deep thinking to be done on this. And the only way I see that happening is by outspoken individual media players playing the devil's advocate and posing questions and scenarios that demand a response no matter how absurd they might sound.

Because feck knows we won't get any sort of credible discussion coming from the Dutton led opposition.

 

[phantom13]

Well if a journalist says it then it must be true

Especially someone with a personal relationship that wrote a book about him.

This is like how he grew up in public housing with a single parent but has done nothing for people in that position now.

A great story to humanise someone who's policies don't give a s**t about people that experience it now

I mean if there’s a clearer indication of the intent of that article than this quote

“The prime minister’s genuine desire to do something real about violence – and the measures legitimately in the works – ended up looking like a cynical, kneejerk response”

Then I haven’t seen it.

If he’s so desperate to do something about it then the outcome of the summit would have been more than a poorly reheated version of a Scomo policy I reckon.

 

[Satan]

Home Affairs officials only began drafting emergency legislation to monitor criminals released from detention two days after a High Court judgment freed them, even though officials met with Immigration Minister Andrew Giles several times in the lead-up to the November 8 ruling.

Departmental documents released under freedom-of-information laws show legislation for curfews and ankle monitors was being developed “at rapid pace” from November 10, a day after the opposition urged the government to act immediately.

 

[Festerz]

Home Affairs officials only began drafting emergency legislation to monitor criminals released from detention two days after a High Court judgment freed them, even though officials met with Immigration Minister Andrew Giles several times in the lead-up to the November 8 ruling.

Departmental documents released under freedom-of-information laws show legislation for curfews and ankle monitors was being developed “at rapid pace” from November 10, a day after the opposition urged the government to act immediately.

CLARIFICATION from Nine entertainment:​

A previous version of this story said Home Affairs officials met with Immigration Minister Andrew Giles on several occasions in September and October. They met with members of his office rather than the minister himself.

Australia immigration: Detainee laws drafted after High Court of Australia ruling

amp.smh.com.au

Nevertheless, the other facts of the article remain unchanged.

 

[Jascave]

Wouldn't be surprised that if Anthony Albanese gets into real trouble during the course of the next federal election, Labor could always use the 'in case of fire, break glass' routine- get former Victorian premier Daniel Andrews. If it wasn't for Andrews's timely intervention during a press conference at the last federal election, Albanese would've lost the election.

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[Gralin]

Wouldn't be surprised that if Anthony Albanese gets into real trouble during the course of the next federal election, Labor could always use the 'in case of fire, break glass' routine- get former Victorian premier Daniel Andrews. If it wasn't for Andrews's timely intervention during a press conference at the last federal election, Albanese would've lost the election.

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I don't think Andrew's popularity in Victoria translates to federal level

I also don't remember Andrew's saving the Federal Labor campaign, what incident are you talking about?

 

[Rob R]

Wouldn't be surprised that if Anthony Albanese gets into real trouble during the course of the next federal election, Labor could always use the 'in case of fire, break glass' routine- get former Victorian premier Daniel Andrews. If it wasn't for Andrews's timely intervention during a press conference at the last federal election, Albanese would've lost the election.

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There is so much dirt on Andrews now he almost makes Dutton look electable.

not sure how he saved Albo when outside of Tassie Vic had the smallest swing to the alp

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[Northalives]

I have a question. Can you read?


... I'm fighting the urge to be wildly offensive, because this is remarkably silly to the point of being open idiocy.

Let me get this completely out in the open. From the article you linked:

... with Albanese being quoted later on:

So in the first instance, you've just lied to the forum in your initial post by misrepresenting the article you've linked to the degree you have.

Secondly, your criticism of Albanese here is what? That he should do what exactly?

• declare war on our biggest trading partner and a global economic, industrial and military superpower?
• tear up our trade agreements with them, dooming our own economy?
• threaten to shirtfront Xi?

Your statement is that Albanese's response to a threat to our soldiers has been at any point to have a selfie taken with the leader of the opposition force?

Tell you what: how about you prove it. Feel free to supply evidence of Anthony Albanese visiting and taking a selfie with the leader of an government whose soldiers have taken a shot at ours.

Ahhhh the boogie man! The right wing media (ie. the vast majority of media in Australia) and the dogwhistling LNP need the boogie man. They've got China, Muslims, Aboriginals and people who want an end to the atrocities in Gaza along with scientists, epidemiologists and humanitarians, amongst others.

What is even more nauseating, is the unquestioning, dumb-as-s**t Australians that love that type of xenophobia.

 

[swingdog]

Wouldn't be surprised that if Anthony Albanese gets into real trouble during the course of the next federal election, Labor could always use the 'in case of fire, break glass' routine- get former Victorian premier Daniel Andrews. If it wasn't for Andrews's timely intervention during a press conference at the last federal election, Albanese would've lost the election.

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Have you ever been right with one of your ponderable scenarios?