All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[Markfs]

Yes I did see the news. There appears to have been an illegal knackery operating near Wagga and 500 dead horses from there were found in a creek bed.

Am I in mourning? It is distressing. I mourn the senseless slaughter of many creatures, human or not. For me horses hold a special place. I believe we do not really own our horses, they are a gift from life to remind us what it means to be alive. A gift we often squander, or misuse, or abuse.

The ugly secret of the thoroughbred horse industry is a conservative 8000 horses slaughtered for pet food each year. Australia has the second largest breeding Industry on the planet, we breed massively large numbers, way more than can ever be accommodated in the racing industry and find a home after. Mass horse killing is mathematically factored into the industry. It doesnt take much knowledge of the industry to know it.

But I know that children murdered in Gaza means we cannot talk of anything else as nothing else matters or can ever be seen as worthy of our sympathies. Reductio at absurdum, Markfs style.

Horses are important to me because of how they entered my life. I was as lost as it is possible to be after three years in foster care bouncing around the system like a pinball. I had shut down so bad my foster carers sent me to stay with friends of theirs on the Dargo high plains to see if a different environment could do some good. I had never known anything about horses at all till then, and they were kind of terrifying but unknowable.

Lost in my own horrors I took to sitting on a fence just dissociating. There was a horse in that enclosure, a brumby that had been captured as a yearling in a cull, from a time when the solution to feral horse numbers was that rather than shooting them. Suddenly out of the blue I felt a nose nudging my chest, and this strange creature was right in front of me, having overcome his fear of what could have been a horse murdering monster, and instead submitting to the curiosity that is the other half of horse nature.

I learned much from that yearling colt, a being as lost and frightened as I was. Horses are very beneficial for therapy for people with PTSD. They are incredibly attuned to our feelings, and once you learn horse body language, you can see what you are thinking mirrored in them, if you know what to look for. Even when you dont consciously realise how ****ed up you are and how much you are broadcasting that. After I learned to ride, I was able to later take part in gentling him and training him, until we were a formidable team mustering cattle, something I still do when able and needed.

He lived there for many years, and in more recent years I have been able to buy him and bring him to live with me. I still recognise that I dont really own him. More he owns me really, but you need to know horses to understand. One of the more emotional moments in my life was being able to teach my own son to ride on him, and seeing Rangi my horse take infinite care of him.

My "fetish", Markfs, is trying somehow, when it seems most impossible, to find something of beauty and grace that speaks to the joy and possibility of life when there is almost nothing but dark and holding onto that like a drowning man reaching for a life preserver. Horses symbolise that to me. Your mileage may vary.

I am acutely aware of my own mental health struggles. At the age of 11 I was raped and tortured by my mum's boyfriend with my mum's involvement, for many months. My nights consist of the certain knowledge that at some point I will be plunged into vivid nightmares experiencing those events as if happening anew and I cant escape. I am typing this looking out at the back shed, where I hung myself during COVID because I had reached the end of the line and I had no strength to go on. My partner found me and had to cut me down, something I know stands between us even today.

What I have tried to do though, and yes not always succeeded, is not to use that as an excuse to just be an a-hole for no reason, and revel in that rationalisation and find ways to blame everyone else but myself.

Also I learned a lot about the power of anger, of hatred, of fear, or living at the sufferance of others, and the powerful lure of revenge when you find you have the power. When I was 14 in a group home and one of the youngest there, our band of boys was led by a damaged psycho. After a night where he got me majorly drunk, he raped me. Unfortunately, abuse and horror doesnt end when kids are placed in care, it just mutates thanks to how ****ed our system is.

So I hatched a plan. Next time we went on a drinking binge, I made sure to drink coke and top up his booze. Back at the house he was paralytic. He was at my mercy, and nobody would stop me. He had no friends see, only hangers on. Thats often the way with psychopaths, they are surrounded by like minded folks as averse to sticking their neck out as they are.

I desperately wanted to do to him what he did to me. For once in my life to feel powerful, to make someone else feel like I had been made to feel. My only mate in that home stopped me, and reminded me of what that would cost me. Because in doing that, I would simply become just like him, and lose whatever was left of me that was any good at all.

My mate calmly and quielty hanged himself during COVID and succeeded. I had to make the call to turn off his life support, and I regret I felt along with unbearable grief a sense of jealousy. He was free. I then tried myself, and I guess I suck at it.

Over my life I have developed then particular things that I find really hard to take from repeated personal experience. The easy lure of the power that comes from revenge and disfigures your soul like nothing on earth. The easy charm of the person who gains a feeling of satisfaction making others feel weak and helpless. The destructive force of someone using their struggles as a pass card to avoid trying to change and instead finds the chaos they can create a substitute for a life. And most of all, the relentlessly negative obsessive who decides to bring everyone else down to their level to make themselves feel better. Ive seen so many of all of them in my life I could genuinely vomit. If any of you in this thread recognise yourselves in this paragraph, so be it.

I have learned to survive, somehow. But in the service of survival I lost what it meant to be alive.

I am still here, but I know that wont last for long. A consequence of my attempt to die is constant bleeding in my brain which will claim me soon enough. But I have at least learned that even now, it matters to keep reaching for that hope, that possibility and joy of life while I still can aspire to. That is my fetish. And knowing whatever my crimes and failings, I will at least never be you.

And in service of that desire to keep reaching for the joy, my time here is done.

Well it wasn't my intention to upset you. I thought that you had said enough about me that you were open to me ribbing you about you. I'm sorry to hear about your past. I won't say anymore because clearly you don't care about my opinion and that's fine.

 

[manicpie]

I said that genocide doesn't require a completely innocent victim.

The rest is your own uninspiring work of fiction.

Again, it might pay to actually look at the definition of genocide. Will you do that for JB?

Definitions are very broad. You never seem to have an answer to my point. You have the right to call it what you want but you are incorrect and only have one eye in the pie

 

[JB1975]

Definitions are very broad. You never seem to have an answer to my point. You have the right to call it what you want but you are incorrect and only have one eye in the pie

Definitions aren't as broad as you think. Check it out.

 

[Maggie5]

It's much more complicated though because israel wants Hamas out but Hamas aren't going. The palestinians are caught in the middle. If israel was to stop now, Hamas would just continue to attack israel. If Hamas really cares about palestinians, they would surrender

Hamas was supported and partially funded by Netanyahu.

I thought it was known that Hamas don't care about the people. Terrorists aren't humanitarians.

 

[manicpie]

Here is another serious question. Also just to stress I am in no way a defender of Iran and their nuclear weapons and even Israel have them. I do feel for the innocents people of Lebanon caught up in this though!

How is it possible for one country (Israel) to bomb and attack another country (Lebanon and Iran) and not expect retaliation?

If it were any other countries this would result in all out war.

Really strange times we live in, I just hope this doesn't escalate into a wider war.

I'm not condoning anything and believe that the whole situation is being overly handled by Israel. It really is a difficult situation while Hamas is still involved. Poor old lebannon has had to endure devastation from both outside and within. This whole situation makes me sick because ultimately, innocent people are being killed on both sides but the rest of the world doesn't really want to know about it

 

[Maggie5]

Maggie I sent you a private message yesterday and you're doing it again. I don't want to run around in circles and turn this into a whatabout him sort of thing. I think some progress is being made in this thread at the moment, in terms of bias......

You've got the wrong guy.

Your avoidance of replying to genuine questions is what leads to the frustration of a number of posters in this thread.

 

[manicpie]

Hamas was supported and partially funded by Netanyahu.

I thought it was known that Hamas don't care about the people. Terrorists aren't humanitarians.

Unfortunately, you have a combination of Hamas and Netanyahu, which can only end badly

 

[vindaloo]

Your avoidance of replying to genuine questions is what leads to the frustration of a number of posters in this thread.

You didn't reply to the PM I sent you yesterday though Maggie did you? Posters being frustrated at me doesn't give them the right to be abusive. I've stated my position on Israel. Why do my questions which are genuine simply get belittled? Where is the fairness Maggie? That goes both ways, surely you can see that?
This could better be sorted via PM anyway, I don't like to have this sort of a discussion in here cause I don't think people (generally speaking) like to read such a dialogue.

 

[Maggie5]

You didn't reply to the PM I sent you yesterday though Maggie did you?

That is a lie, I clearly explained my position regarding PM's.

Further do you realise that PM stands for Private Messages?

Posters being frustrated at me doesn't give them the right to be abusive. I've stated my position on Israel. Why do my questions which are genuine simply get belittled? Where is the fairness Maggie? That goes both ways, surely you can see that?

Threads like this are such that if you make a post, surely you expect a reply or perhaps even a question or two.

If a poster constantly avoids replying to content or then introduces another topic, it becomes frustrating not only to the poster but to the readers of the thread.

I have attempted to reply to your posts in good faith without any belittling or name calling and you refuse to engage in good faith.

This could better be sorted via PM anyway, I don't like to have this sort of a discussion in here cause I don't think people (generally speaking) like to read such a dialogue.

Again, refer to my PM reply.

 

[gouki88]

You didn't reply to the PM I sent you yesterday though Maggie did you? Posters being frustrated at me doesn't give them the right to be abusive. I've stated my position on Israel. Why do my questions which are genuine simply get belittled? Where is the fairness Maggie? That goes both ways, surely you can see that?
This could better be sorted via PM anyway, I don't like to have this sort of a discussion in here cause I don't think people (generally speaking) like to read such a dialogue.

You literally respond to nothing people put to you, ever. All the countless rebukes of your complete bullshit and nada from you.

Spare us the pathetic whimpering. Your questions are not genuine. You are the walking embodiment of just asking questions.

 

[vindaloo]

Guys I've given my answer re Ukraine/Palestine Genocide. People in here are unsure if either are a genocide. Many thousands of innocent civilians have died in Ukraine. I don't think it makes much of a difference if it fits the specific criteria, massive loss of life is tragic. In Ukraines case there was no launching rockets or condoning mass slaughter across the border into Russia. That's my position and it's a legitimate one.

 

[leon123]

Guys I've given my answer re Ukraine/Palestine Genocide. People in here are unsure if either are a genocide. Many thousands of innocent civilians have died in Ukraine. I don't think it makes much of a difference if it fits the specific criteria, massive loss of life is tragic. In Ukraines case there was no launching rockets or condoning mass slaughter across the border into Russia. That's my position and it's a legitimate one.

Im fair dinkum, ive got a spare position for you if your interested. Ive got to do a lot of reporting and sometimes, the reporting has to use a lot of words without saying anything, you are a master at this... you could make me a lot of money

 

[sr36]

The US invasion of Iraq was never a war crime. A sovereign state that harboured and supported the largest terrorist organisation in the world. It was also run by a tyrant who was sending missiles to Israel

Not true manic. Saddam was a military dictator, but his Iraq was very anti Islamic-fundamentalism. The Iraqi war had nothing to do with a war on terrorism. Ousting him was a good thing for terrorist groups and was always going to be.

 

[manicpie]

Not true manic. Saddam was a military dictator, but his Iraq was very anti Islamic-fundamentalism. The Iraqi war had nothing to do with a war on terrorism. Ousting him was a good thing for terrorist groups and was always going to be.

I had to say something that sounded dramatic.

 

[sr36]

I had to say something that sounded dramatic.

It was a strange war in that it's really hard to see what reason the Yanks had. Why did they and we go in? Was it just an attempted show of strength? I don't think we'll ever know what the hell that was about.

 

[manicpie]

It was a strange war in that it's really hard to see what reason the Yanks had. Why did they and we go in? Was it just an attempted show of strength? I don't think we'll ever know what the hell that was about.

I still remember when the first rockets were launched, the whole world went silent and thought it would be the start of WW3

 

[manicpie]

It was a strange war in that it's really hard to see what reason the Yanks had. Why did they and we go in? Was it just an attempted show of strength? I don't think we'll ever know what the hell that was about.

Actually, I had a small part ownership of a Racehorse that was running at Ballarat about the same time as the first missile and if I remember correctly, they delayed the race for half hour to watch the news, lol.

 

[sr36]

Actually, I had a small part ownership of a Racehorse that was running at Ballarat about the same time as the first missile and if I remember correctly, they delayed the race for half hour to watch the news, lol.

How did it run?

 

[manicpie]

How did it run?

I think it came third. It did go on and run in town and win a few races though.

 

[sr36]

I think it came third. It did go on and run in town and win a few races though.

You're a victim of war.The nag would have got up without the delay.

 

[manicpie]

You're a victim of war.The nag would have got up without the delay.

Bloody Saddam

 

[sr36]

Bloody Saddam

You should be blaming Jimmy Jones the CIA agent that declared photos of the roof of a truck in Northern Africa definitive proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

 

[manicpie]

You should be blaming Jimmy Jones the CIA agent that declared photos of the roof of a truck in Northern Africa definitive proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The bastard

 

[sr36]

Well, Bibi wants another war. This one will * the entire world.

 

[JB1975]

Well, Bibi wants another war. This one will * the entire world.

No time to worry about those Palestinians, need to fill up my petrol tank.