Tasmania AFL Say No To Tassie Team

[telsor]

The truth is the competition by was downgraded to the 2nd tier & most fans follow the premier comp. 7 x Subi players joined the Eagles, Darren Bewick & Nicky Winmar were some of the WAFL guys who joined Vic clubs (they had first dibs contrary to folklore, folklore from Vic spin merchants).

'just like their players did before that' - yep you trot out that nonsense, e.g in the 80s Stephen Michael, in the 70s players like Graeme Moss came/played 80 odd games & won a Brownlow & gave the VFL a miss unsure what the fuss was all about, in the 60s, Polly came over towards the end of his career (27 y.o) & made a few changes to the way the game was played from the 60s on (the same game he perfected playing for East Perth in the 50s) - only 101 games. Before the war Haydn Bunton Snr gave the VFL a miss after coming down from NSW & winning 3 x Brownlows & went West to play for Subi.

Your delusion knows no end Wookie - the truth is the VFL attracted some of the best Aussie Rules footballers (more than a few Taswegians of the 50s & 60s), the AFL attracts them all. You dont get the difference - arguably the last great to stay home was Gary McIntosh (http://www.sanfl.com.au/hall_of_fame/garry_mcintosh/).

And if the fans who 'lost' their teams ignored WCE/VFL and continued supporting the WAFL, those teams would still be at the 'top' (in WA anyway).

The FANS decided to move to what was already the 1st tier league after the WA clubs had spent years trying to get in.

Sure, there were players as good, even better in other leagues, but you're the one who keeps on about the depth of talent in the AFL ...Which comp do you think had better players all the way through? The worst half dozen players in the bottom VFL team would get a game in the WAFL/SANFL...The reverse wasn't true.

 

[telsor]

You don't seem to grasp that the concept that the AFL is responsible for all aspects of the game, not just growing it.

And you stating it is a non-viable location, just to suit your agenda, does not make it fact.

Yeah, but I use numbers and facts to back me up.

Those claiming it's viable tend to rely on "yeah, but Tasmanians love footy" and selective quoting.

 

[Engimal]

I will probably never get the opportunity to support a team that represents my people. Why do I follow this joke of a league again?

 

[Colonial]

I will probably never get the opportunity to support a team that represents my people. Why do I follow this joke of a league again?

Your people?

 

[Engimal]

Your people?

Tasmanians.

 

[Colonial]

Tasmanians.

Thats a race now?

 

[Engimal]

Thats a race now?

I never said we were. But we're pretty ostracised down here, to the point that it's not uncommon for people to refer to your island as 'Australia'. While I don't do so myself, I really have never thought of myself as Australian. Anywhere I go on the mainland, I'm 'the Tasmanian guy'. I get the incest jokes, I get the illiteracy jokes, I get the the poor jokes. You know them all. If I talk to anyone from around the world online and mention that I'm a Tasmanian, I get the same thing.

That's probably why we get so excited when one of our own does well on a national or international level. It's never just "Ben Brown", it's "Ben Brown, from Devonport". It's never just "George Bailey", it's "George Bailey, from Longford". We love seeing people from here showing the mainlanders how it's done.

That's why I dream of a day that I'll be able to go watch a Tasmanian side in the AFL. I love North Melbourne and will never stop being a supporter of them, but nothing would give me more joy that going to watch Tasmania belt an Australian team at Aurora.

 

[Papa G]

hey its great you can pick a few of the players that didnt come over, especially since it was a big part of why WAFL clubs and the WAFL itself wanted in to the VFL in the first place. In SA they put in a player retention allowance to stop the tide, and that still didnt prevent clubs from trying to join the VFL.

Oh I get the difference alright. But it doesnt change the fact that like your players, your supporters dropped the locals at the drop of a hat. The truth is literally that the WAFL downgraded itself and the supporters flocked to the AFL in droves.

If my delusion knows no end, then neither does your bias.

Who are your players Wookie?

 

[Colonial]

I never said we were.

You said a team for your people.

Anyway tassie should have a team but not at the expense of a current team.

If a current team on its own decides to merge or drop or move then ok.

 

[Engimal]

You said a team for your people.

Anyway tassie should have a team but not at the expense of a current team.

If a current team on its own decides to merge or drop or move then ok.

My people are Tasmanians. Any implication of race was of your own doing.

Also, I agree. I don't want any of the current clubs to leave. At the same time however, I don't want a recycled club for my island.

 

[telsor]

My people are Tasmanians. Any implication of race was of your own doing.

Also, I agree. I don't want any of the current clubs to leave. At the same time however, I don't want a recycled club for my island.

What about people who think 'my people' are those from Hobart, or Burnie, or King Island? Do they get 'their' team too?

 

[Engimal]

What about people who think 'my people' are those from Hobart, or Burnie, or King Island? Do they get 'their' team too?

I'm sure that sounded much more clever in your head. 'Tasmania' encompasses all of those areas. Not a single current club in the AFL does that for us. We have no representation in the AFL.

 

[sherb]

What about people who think 'my people' are those from Hobart, or Burnie, or King Island? Do they get 'their' team too?

They are welcome to start their own push for an AFL side if they wish. It's a free country.

In the meantime, the people you are arguing against here are supporting an AFL side for the entire state.

I hope that clears things up for you.

 

[Kwality]

The FANS decided to move to what was already the 1st tier league after the WA clubs had spent years trying to get in.

Sure, there were players as good, even better in other leagues, ...

.

WA fans already had VFL clubs they followed in the days of the State comps, many followed a SANFL side too - in the VFL days I followed the Blues. The national comp caused a revision: it was support rather than follow & most WA fans chose to not follow the VFL team they supported.

& telsor, its good you acknowledge that the VFL only had some of the games best, narrowed minded VFL apologists deny this fact & suggest its a bias to point out the bleedin' obvious.

 

[deltablues]

I do...I don't support dropping other 'non-viable' sides to make way for a less viable side however.

We've had this discussion before - you say that you have no objections (to paraphrase you) to a Tas team but not at the expense of a Vic AFL team. OK already - on the basis of that being agreed, I called you out on it and said you can't have it both ways.

Yet here you are still raising the same old same old.

In my line of work I look at the evidence, and the evidence, based on your consistent postings about why Tasmania should not have an AFL team - and you even went right off piste and questioned Tasmania's right to be a state in one post (albeit that context was somewhat political) - can reasonably be taken to indicate that you are not in favor of a Tas team at all, irrespective of whether it means dropping a Vic side or not.

Your pro-Tas team statements are therefore not credible.

Did a Tasmanian run over your dog?

 

[Kwality]

And if the fans who 'lost' their teams ignored WCE/VFL and continued supporting the WAFL, those teams would still be at the 'top' (in WA anyway).

The FANS decided to move to what was already the 1st tier league after the WA clubs had spent years trying to get in.

Sure, there were players as good, even better in other leagues, but you're the one who keeps on about the depth of talent in the AFL ...Which comp do you think had better players all the way through? The worst half dozen players in the bottom VFL team would get a game in the WAFL/SANFL...The reverse wasn't true.

Let me straighten out your failed comprehension yet again.

1. I believe their is a visible lack of depth in the AFL player pool
2. The national comp attracts ALL the best players, the various State based comps had only some of the best playing in their comp - again ALL the best in the comp, not some of the best.

Got it??

Can I assure you that the WA club that won the last 1st tier WAFL flag did not ever express any interest in joining the VFL.

 

[The_Wookie]

We've had this discussion before - you say that you have no objections (to paraphrase you) to a Tas team but not at the expense of a Vic AFL team. OK already - on the basis of that being agreed, I called you out on it and said you can't have it both ways.

Yet here you are still raising the same old same old.

In my line of work I look at the evidence, and the evidence, based on your consistent postings about why Tasmania should not have an AFL team - and you even went right off piste and questioned Tasmania's right to be a state in one post (albeit that context was somewhat political) - can reasonably be taken to indicate that you are not in favor of a Tas team at all, irrespective of whether it means dropping a Vic side or not.

Your pro-Tas team statements are therefore not credible.

Did a Tasmanian run over your dog?

His pro tasmania team statements are as valid as yours, and just as credible as the next anonymous forum poster. He has concerns over financial viability (and the logic of replacing a struggling victorian club with a struggling tasmanian club), that appear to also reflect concerns shared by the AFL Commission - and every Commision for the last 30 years.

Let me straighten out your failed comprehension yet again.

1. I believe their is a visible lack of depth in the AFL player pool
2. The national comp attracts ALL the best players, the various State based comps had only some of the best playing in their comp - again ALL the best in the comp, not some of the best.

Got it??

Can I assure you that the WA club that won the last 1st tier WAFL flag did not ever express any interest in joining the VFL.

So because Subiaco didnt, no one else was interested right? Even though when the WAFL bid was being considered a joint South/East Fremantle bid was also being floated (according to Ross Oakley in The Phoenix Rises) - not to mention East Perth having already applied outright - and even though one of the stated aims of having a WAFL side was to prevent likely team and player defections if they didnt.

 

[deltablues]

His pro tasmania team statements are as valid as yours, and just as credible as the next anonymous forum poster. He has concerns over financial viability (and the logic of replacing a struggling victorian club with a struggling tasmanian club), that appear to also reflect concerns shared by the AFL Commission - and every Commision for the last 30 years.



So because Subiaco didnt, no one else was interested right? Even though when the WAFL bid was being considered a joint South/East Fremantle bid was also being floated (according to Ross Oakley in The Phoenix Rises) - not to mention East Perth having already applied outright - and even though one of the stated aims of having a WAFL side was to prevent likely team and player defections if they didnt.

The concerns about financial viability etc are not in dispute. I have read them and noted them. But the statement made by Telsor (and I am sure he can speak for himself on this) was about him saying yes he had no problems with a Tas team but not at the expense of a Vic team. That qualification has been agreed. Thus the points continually raised by him about financial viability (however valid they may be) are redundant. Hence in that context they are not credible.

You seem to be confusing credibility/validity with the right to comment. One has a right to comment but not all comments are credible or valid.

 

[The_Wookie]

The concerns about financial viability etc are not in dispute. I have read them and noted them. But the statement made by Telsor (and I am sure he can speak for himself on this) was about him saying yes he had no problems with a Tas team but not at the expense of a Vic team. That qualification has been agreed. Thus the points continually raised by him about financial viability (however valid they may be) are redundant. Hence in that context they are not credible.

Firstly, Ill comment on whatever I like the same accusations have been leveled against me.

Its possible to believe that Tasmania should have a side at some point, but not if its a) at the expense of a victorian side or b) likely to be as big or greater a financial burden than those teams already existing in the competition.

Four times the question of a Tasmanian side has come to the Commission. 1985, 1998, 2008 and a week or so ago - and all four times the Commission hasnt been satisifed about the financials of the proposed side. Four different CEO's (Oakley, Jackson, Demetriou and Mclachlan) and three different Chairmen (Kennedy, Evans, Fitzpatrick), and the results have all come back the same.

Its not like Telsor is an island here, and his views and comments in this regard are no less credible and valid than yours,.

 

[deltablues]

Firstly, Ill comment on whatever I like the same accusations have been leveled against me.

Its possible to believe that Tasmania should have a side at some point, but not if its a) at the expense of a victorian side or b) likely to be as big or greater a financial burden than those teams already existing in the competition.

Four times the question of a Tasmanian side has come to the Commission. 1985, 1998, 2008 and a week or so ago - and all four times the Commission hasnt been satisifed about the financials of the proposed side. Four different CEO's (Oakley, Jackson, Demetriou and Mclachlan) and three different Chairmen (Kennedy, Evans, Fitzpatrick), and the results have all come back the same.

Its not like Telsor is an island here, and his views and comments in this regard are no less credible and valid than yours,.

I haven't questioned your right to comment at all - you are saddling up the wrong horse. My comments were re Telsor's. And my point concerning validity/credibility stands. You don't seem to be able to process the distinction I made within that context.

Also, I have commented somewhere on these Tas threads about policy issues at high level trumping financial challenges/previous reports and inquiries. At the moment the AFL policy seems to be against a Tas side for financial reasons. Finances are a challenge but not the only issue - as some of the pro-Tas team posters have mentioned.

Anyway, have a nice Sunday...

 

[Kwality]

His pro tasmania team statements are as valid as yours, and just as credible as the next anonymous forum poster. He has concerns over financial viability (and the logic of replacing a struggling victorian club with a struggling tasmanian club), that appear to also reflect concerns shared by the AFL Commission - and every Commision for the last 30 years.



So because Subiaco didnt, no one else was interested right? Even though when the WAFL bid was being considered a joint South/East Fremantle bid was also being floated (according to Ross Oakley in The Phoenix Rises) - not to mention East Perth having already applied outright - and even though one of the stated aims of having a WAFL side was to prevent likely team and player defections if they didnt.

Don't remember drawing that conclusion & I know you don't have the comprehension deficit of the OP, a repeat offender - the 1986 WAFL premiership club had no desire to compete in any expanded VFL.
Yes, WA would always want to compete at the highest level, remember the State of Origin came out of WA, a Subi club employee Leon Larkin.

 

[telsor]

We've had this discussion before - you say that you have no objections (to paraphrase you) to a Tas team but not at the expense of a Vic AFL team. OK already - on the basis of that being agreed, I called you out on it and said you can't have it both ways.

Yet here you are still raising the same old same old.

In my line of work I look at the evidence, and the evidence, based on your consistent postings about why Tasmania should not have an AFL team - and you even went right off piste and questioned Tasmania's right to be a state in one post (albeit that context was somewhat political) - can reasonably be taken to indicate that you are not in favor of a Tas team at all, irrespective of whether it means dropping a Vic side or not.

Your pro-Tas team statements are therefore not credible.

Did a Tasmanian run over your dog?

Tell you what, run the same analysis over the pro-tasmanian team fans who say they don't want to kill off Vic clubs....

 

[Papa G]

How many chances does the MFC get? Oh that's right, first club, foundation club, first club, joke club.

 

[telsor]

Let me straighten out your failed comprehension yet again.

1. I believe their is a visible lack of depth in the AFL player pool
2. The national comp attracts ALL the best players, the various State based comps had only some of the best playing in their comp - again ALL the best in the comp, not some of the best.

Got it??

Can I assure you that the WA club that won the last 1st tier WAFL flag did not ever express any interest in joining the VFL.

Not sure where you thought I was disagreeing with that (in general at least, I do disagree with the extent to which you believe those things).

Some WAFL & SANFL clubs wanted to join, and I suspect others would have leapt at the opportunity if they thought there was a chance.

 

[telsor]

The concerns about financial viability etc are not in dispute. I have read them and noted them. But the statement made by Telsor (and I am sure he can speak for himself on this) was about him saying yes he had no problems with a Tas team but not at the expense of a Vic team. That qualification has been agreed. Thus the points continually raised by him about financial viability (however valid they may be) are redundant. Hence in that context they are not credible.

You seem to be confusing credibility/validity with the right to comment. One has a right to comment but not all comments are credible or valid.

I've said a number of times that I'd like a Tas team, as part of further expansion (my preferred scenario is eventual expansion to 23 teams, one of which would be from Tas).

In terms of financial viability, I see a Tas team as being on a similar standing to the poorer Vic teams, which, not coincidentally, is what they keep getting compared to...My response is that if they are to replace an existing side, they need to be in a substantially better financial position, and my arguments 'talking down' a Tas team are arguing that they're not in such a position.