Resource The list your Ken Hinkley Era Stats Thread

[Ford Fairlane]

Ken Hinkley upcoming Milestones:

• On May 25th Vs North in Tassie, Ken officially becomes the all time record holder for the most games coached to have not reached a GF.
• Whilst already being the all time record holder for most games at 1 club without a GF appearance.
• Including coaches that have made a GF, Ken is the longest serving coach at a single club to have not won a premiership.
• At the end of the minor round, Ken will have 11 games remaining to become equal 4th for most games coached all time, without a premiership.

All other clubs' supporters applaud him.

 

[Finest of Wines]

If the bulldogs were last you know Kane Cornes would be ripping into Beveridge at every opportunity but dear old Kenny will get a free pass

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Has anyone ever checked where he sits on the list of most games as player/coach without a flag?

He currently sits on 387 games (132 as a player, 255 as coach) total without success.

 

[sobrave]

View attachment 1969102

This is actually worse than the first one.

But both combined is damning.

That's a crazy statistical outlier. Not one other team above 40% and there we are at 52%
Do we gas out at the end of quarters due to our hardery for longery game plan? Are our rotations bad that we end up with all our best players on the bench at once?

 

[Duck Farmer]

On May 25th Vs North in Tassie, Ken officially becomes the all time record holder for the most games coached to have not reached a GF.

In a truly amazing coincidence Travis Boak will also break the all-time AFL games played for Port Adelaide in the same match.

 

[GremioPower]

the old red zone after the 25 minute mark

Thanks. I had asked about that. It should have been beyond the 25th minute, indeed.

 

[SC_Power]

The stats I'd like to see, is how many shots do sides concede in the last 3 minutes of game time per quarter and what do they let the oppo score in that time??

This is what Tredders was talking about after the Collingwood game. When the oppo have momentum, take time off the clock, by not trying slick stuff at centre bounces that results in turn overs. Take the tackle and kill some time. Play boring down the line footy. Kill their momentum, not accelerate it.

PAFC v Opp

Rd 2 v WC
Q1 0.2 - 1.0
Q2 0.2 - 0.0
Q3 0.2 - 0.0
Q4 0.0 - 1.1

Rd 3 v Rich
Q1 1.0 - 1.0
Q2 1.0 - 0.0
Q3 0.0 - 2.0
Q4 0.0 - 0.1

Rd 4 v Melb
Q1 1.0 - 0.0
Q2 0.0 - 0.0
Q3 0.0 - 2.0
Q4 1.0 - 0.1

Rd 5 v Ess
Q1 0.0 - 0.2
Q2 2.0 - 0.0
Q3 0.0 - 0.1
Q4 0.0 - 0.0

Rd 6 v Frem
Q1 0.1 - 0.0
Q2 0.2 - 0.0
Q3 0.1 - 0.1
Q4 0.0 - 0.1

R7 v Coll
Q1 0.0 - 1.0
Q2 0.0 - 1.0
Q3 0.0 - 0.0
Q4 0.0 - 0.0

Total
6.10 - 9.8

 

[SC_Power]

PAFC scores after 20 min mark / % of total score.

Rd 2 v WC
2.4 / 3.1 / 0.3 / 2.3 = 7.11 53/120 = 44.1%

Rd 3 v Rich
1.2 / 1.0 / 1.2 / 1.0 = 4.4 28/122 = 22.9%

Rd 4 v Melb
1.0 / 1.1 / 2.2 / 1.0 = 5.3 33/89 = 37.0%

Rd 5 v Ess
2.0 / 3.1 / 0.2 / 0.0 = 5.3 33/111 = 29.7%

Rd 6 v Frem
2.2 / 0.2 / 1.2 / 2.1 = 5.7 37/66 = 56.0%

Rd 7 v Coll
2.0 / 0.0 / 1.0 / 0.1 = 3.1 19/81 = 23.4%

Total
29.29 203/589 = 34.4%

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Thanks. I had asked about that. It should have been beyond the 25th minute, indeed.

Quarters used to be 25 minutes, plus time on, but there wasnt so much wasted time like there is today.

The mechanical clock would be next to the scoreboard at nearly all grounds around Oz in the major leagues, and would be marked like a normal clock but instead of 1, 2, 3 etc it was 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 with a white clock face and after 25, it was a red clock face and then 30, 35, 40. I dont remember the red zone ever going past 40 minutes, but there might have been some clocks that did.

But in the old days the boundary umpires would sprint the ball back to the central umpires, and sometimes the bounce would happen 15 to 20 seconds after the goal umpire signalled a goal. Now they take 45 seconds for commercials and replays, a white light flashes, then the umpire sets himself, sometimes might shake himself, then takes a few steps in and bounces the ball. The time keeper doesnt start the clock until the rucks touch the ball, so 1 minute to 65 seconds can be lost.

When there was a stoppage and a ball up, the clock kept ticking unless the umpire thinks there is some reason to blow his whistle for time on. Now as soon as the umpire blows his whistle for a ball up, the clock stops, the umpire then asks who is going up for ruck, tells guys to clear out of his way and where he is going to run backwards to. There is 15 to 20 seconds lost that didnt happen in older times.

There were no score reviews to waste time. Goal umpires used to signal as soon as the ball went over the line, no grandstanding and lean back and watch the ball go over their heads and they walk towards the line, look around to find the central umpire, to get the all clear. There is about 6 or 10 seconds per goal wasted compared to the past.

When there was no AIDS players werent sent off when they had blood running from their face, arms or legs. Now players gping off with blood can waste 30 to 60 seconds of time.

For very serious accidents, where a stretcher or the buggy drove on, the game was always stopped.

Last year and this year the umpires now stop play if a player is injured 50m or even 100m from where the ball has stopped and wait until trainers get there, or start moving the players off.

Boundary umpires used to throw the ball back in pretty quickly, whether ruckmen were there or not. Now they wait, set themselves, make sure the rucks have got there and the central umpires have been advised who is going to ruck the throw in. More wasted time.

So 30+ years ago a quarter where the two teams kicked a combined 8 to 10 maybe 12 goals the 25 minute quarter might go 29 to 31 minutes ie 4 to 6 minutes of red time.

Now with all these bloody time wasting events, a quarter where a combined 4 goals are kicked, the quarter might go 30 to 32 minutes or 10 to 12 minutes of red time.

Thats why red time used to mean something years ago, but now is meaningless.

 

[GremioPower]

Thats why red time used to mean something years ago, but now is meaningless.

The facts are undeniable, but I don’t agree with the conclusion. It seems to me that the only reason for “red time” to be meaningless is the countdown clock.

The game would last just as long with the old clock. The main difference would be that only the timekeeper would know how much time would be added on.

Having said that, “red time” could be meaningful again — e.g., with a rule forbidding quarters to last fewer than 25’ (as it should, by the way). In that case, the 25’ mark would still matter for something.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The facts are undeniable, but I don’t agree with the conclusion. It seems to me that the only reason for “red time” to be meaningless is the countdown clock.

The game would last just as long with the old clock. The main difference would be that only the timekeeper would know how much time would be added on.

Having said that, “red time” could be meaningful again — e.g., with a rule forbidding quarters to last fewer than 25’ (as it should, by the way). In that case, the 25’ mark would still matter for something.

Nah that's an artificial manipulation to make a stat.

Just be more realistic and say red time starts at the 3.00 minutes to go mark of each quarter, to be reflective of what red time used to mean.

Champion Data would have those stats, but on the AFL app they count up the time and not down, to record a score, so unless you watch every quarter replay its not easily obtained.

 

[Cam1870]

In a truly amazing coincidence Travis Boak will also break the all-time AFL games played for Port Adelaide in the same match.

Can we put both "milestones" on the same banner.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Ken Hinkley will run down a few more records.

This is the list of people with the most games without a flag as a player/coach.

Name	Coached games	Played games	Total games
Nathan Buckley	218​	280​	498​
Ross Lyon	335​	129​	464​
Leon Cameron	193​	256​	449​
Bill Stephen	258​	162​	420​
Arthur Olliver	131​	272​	403​
Robert Harvey	9​	383​	392​
Ken Hinkley	254​	132​	386​

Bucks you would think will be untouchable for a long time, though its worth noting that he did win a SANFL flag. Lyon is also gonna be beyond Hinkley as he is still coaching, though there is of course the outside chance that he can still nab a flag somehow.

Hinkley should go past Harvey and Olliver this year to take his spot in the top 5. If this is his last contract he likely finishes with 35-40 games and you would think will pass Bill Stephen too (a bit over a year after he overtakes Stephen as the least successful coach of all time).

He would need at least one more extension to go past Cameron to take a top 3 spot. He would probably need to receive a coaching contract elsewhere (maybe in Tassie) to get anything more than that.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Ken Hinkley will run down a few more records.

This is the list of people with the most games without a flag as a player/coach.

Name	Coached games	Played games	Total games
Nathan Buckley	218​	280​	498​
Ross Lyon	335​	129​	464​
Leon Cameron	193​	256​	449​
Bill Stephen	258​	162​	420​
Arthur Olliver	131​	272​	403​
Robert Harvey	9​	383​	392​
Ken Hinkley	254​	132​	386​

Bucks you would think will be untouchable for a long time, though its worth noting that he did win a SANFL flag. Lyon is also gonna be beyond Hinkley as he is still coaching, though there is of course the outside chance that he can still nab a flag somehow.

Hinkley should go past Harvey and Olliver this year to take his spot in the top 5. If this is his last contract he likely finishes with 35-40 games and you would think will pass Bill Stephen too (a bit over a year after he overtakes Stephen as the least successful coach of all time).

He would need at least one more extension to go past Cameron to take a top 3 spot. He would probably need to receive a coaching contract elsewhere (maybe in Tassie) to get anything more than that.

Some very nice digging there.

 

[Coobk001]

Just took this stat a bit further:

For Bottom 10 clashes at home:​

In day or twilight we rarely lose. We are 35 W, 2 L in those fixtures.​

The only 2 we've lost were Crows in Away Showdowns.

So excluding Adelaide, we simply don't lose to bottom 10 sides at home, in day or twilight games. You can set your watch to it.

This has continued. We are now currently 37-0 against Interstate, bottom 10 sides at Adelaide Oval, in day or twilight games.

 

[Coobk001]

With Brisbane’s top-4 status mathematically assured — and therefore week 2 of finals at a minimum — they become the 13th team to register a superior seasonal highwater mark to us from 2015-present.

Essendon have qualified for an Elimination Final and will pull level at a minimum.

01. West Coast: 2018
02. Richmond: 2017
03. W. Bulldogs: 2016
04. Hawthorn: 2015
05. Collingwood: 2018
06. Adelaide: 2017
07. Sydney: 2016
08. Fremantle: 2015
09. Geelong: 2017
10. Melbourne: 2018
11. GWS: 2017
12. Nth. Melbourne: 2015
13. Brisbane: 2019 —*
14. Port Adelaide: 2017
15. Essendon: 2019 *
16. St. Kilda: 2016
17. Carlton: 2016
18. Gold Coast: 2016

Feel like we need an update of this. Would be nice to know how many other teams have now made the prelim during the Hinkley Tenure. Apart from Saints, North and GC, it might be everyone?

 

[chiwigi]

If the bulldogs were last you know Kane Cornes would be ripping into Beveridge at every opportunity but dear old Kenny will get a free pass

Ironically (or not) this happens because we GO DEFENSIVE when I see the battery icon I sigh hard!

It's absurd!

 

[NoddyHolder]

Ironically (or not) this happens because we GO DEFENSIVE when I see the battery icon I sigh hard!

It's absurd!

We were lucky on the weekend that the opposition coach went defensive so early it probably even made Kenny blush (if he noticed)

 

[tribey]

Feel like we need an update of this. Would be nice to know how many other teams have now made the prelim during the Hinkley Tenure. Apart from Saints, North and GC, it might be everyone?

 

[Coobk001]

CLOSE GAMES RECORD (12pts or fewer)

View attachment 1480015

2013, 2020, and 2021 are the only seasons with more wins than losses.

In the other SEVEN seasons, we had a losing record.

---

P.S.: In R3 2022, the actual difference was -4.

The close losses was a big issue for the majority of the Hinkley tenure. However if there is one area that has improved dramatically it is this.


In 2023 we went 6-2 in games decided by 12 or less.
In 2024 we are already 3-1.

Takes this overall record to 33-37.


What did change though in 2023 was that despite finishing 3rd, we had huge 5 big losses. So we were losing big or fluking close ones.

 

[bomberclifford]

View attachment 1997518

So our peak, the pinnacle reached by Hinkley, is also achieved by over 80% of the competition. One third of the comp has also hit the bottom in his tenure and still matched his peak.

Essendon making a prelim this year would be some dried jizz icing on a stale dump cake.

 

[klem22]

In a truly amazing coincidence Travis Boak will also break the all-time AFL games played for Port Adelaide in the same match.

The thing they have in common is that they both miss crucial goals!

 

[tribey]

So our peak, the pinnacle reached by Hinkley, is also achieved by over 80% of the competition. One third of the comp has also hit the bottom in his tenure and still matched his peak.

Essendon making a prelim this year would be some dried jizz icing on a stale dump cake.

It’s what makes the “he was a kick away from a Grand Final” refrain from Kane particularly galling.

But then I’ve read Port fans say things like “some clubs haven’t made the finals for decades!”, so there’s a wider mistaken sense that achieving anything remotely close to success over a 10-12 year span is like climbing Everest.

 

[Coobk001]

Really simple finals analysis of Hinkley's tenure. We rank 11th in won finals, given no GF's or flags have been won.

	wins	losses	flags	gfs	Win %
Rich	10​	6​	3​	3​	63%​
Geel	10​	14​	1​	2​	42%​
Haw	9​	1​	3​	3​	90%​
GWS	9​	7​	0​	1​	56%​
Coll	8​	7​	1​	2​	53%​
Syd	8​	12​	0​	3​	40%​
WB	7​	5​	1​	2​	58%​
WC	7​	5​	1​	2​	58%​
Melb	5​	5​	1​	1​	50%​
Bris	5​	7​	0​	1​	42%​
PA	5​	7​	0​	0​	42%​
Adel	4​	3​	0​	1​	57%​
Freo	4​	5​	0​	1​	44%​
NM	4​	3​	0​	0​	57%​
Carlton	3​	2​	0​	0​	60%​
St K	1​	2​	0​	0​	33%​
Ess	0​	4​	0​	0​	0%​
GC	0​	0​	0​	0​	0%​

​

​

​

​

If we just go Post-2015, arguably we rank 15th based on win percent, equal 12th on wins, or 12th on number of finals played.

	wins	losses	flags	gfs	Win %
Rich	10​	4​	3​	3​	71%​
Geel	9​	10​	1​	2​	47%​
GWS	9​	7​	0​	1​	56%​
Coll	8​	6​	1​	2​	57%​
WB	7​	5​	1​	2​	58%​
WC	7​	5​	1​	2​	58%​
Melb	5​	5​	1​	1​	50%​
Syd	5​	9​	0​	2​	36%​
Bris	5​	7​	0​	1​	42%​
Adel	4​	3​	0​	1​	57%​
Haw	3​	1​	1​	1​	75%​
Freo	2​	2​	0​	0​	50%​
NM	2​	2​	0​	0​	50%​
Carlton	2​	2​	0​	0​	50%​
PA	2​	5​	0​	0​	29%​
St K	1​	2​	0​	0​	33%​
Ess	0​	3​	0​	0​	0%​
GC	0​	0​	0​	0​	#DIV/0!​

 

[Coobk001]

Firstly, this should be the preview thread. No point in the other thread.

Meanwhile some highlights:

• Vs North this weekend Ken Hinkley officially becomes the all time record holder for the most games coached to have not reached a GF. Breaking Fitzroy and Essendon coach Bill Stephen’s record.
• He is already the all time record holder for the most games at 1 club without a GF appearance.
• If you include coaches that have made a GF, Ken is the longest serving coach at a single club of all time to have not won a premiership.
• By the end of Ken’s current contract he will become equal 4th for most games coached all time, without a premiership.
• He holds the record for the most games coached at PAFC to have not won a premiership
• At 57 this year he would become the oldest 1st time coach to win a flag in history, if he were to succeed.

During Ken’s time:

• Only Gold Coast, Essendon, Carlton, StKilda & North Melb have not made a Grand Final.
• Brisbane, Adelaide, GWS and West Coast have both won a spoon and made a GF in that time
• 7 other clubs have won a grand final.
• Hinkley's high watermark of reaching prelims has also been accomplished by all but 3 other teams, Ess, GC, StK.
• Our night game record at Adelaide Oval is only slightly better than 50% at 33-32. Including only winning approx 33% that are played against top 8 opposition.
• Despite a 60% record and multiple top 4 finishes and never finishing below 10th, Ports record against Top 4 during the Hinkley era is 11th Best in the comp.
• Port have lost their last 5 knockout finals, 4 of which were held @ Adelaide Oval, all of which played against a side Port previously beat in their last minor round encounter.
• Hinkley has a 5-7 (41%) record in finals, from 7 home finals, with 3 losing preliminary finals.
• Our finals record for wins in the Hinkley era has us ranked 11th.
• Only 2 coaches remain since Hinkley became coach of Port, Chris Scott with 2 premierships from 3 Grand Finals, John Longmire with 1 premiership and 4 grand finals.
• 6-6 in showdowns over the past 6 years, despite finishing above Adelaide, including 3 finals appearances to none, 3x top 4 finishes to none. Plus Adelaide has won a spoon. Port have a 88-50 record in that time vs a nearly completely opposite 54-83-1 record for the Crows.
• A 10-12 record in showdowns, highlighted by 3-7 in away showdowns at Adelaide Oval. Despite finishing above the Crows in 8 of 11 seasons, and trending towards 9 of 12 seasons.
• In 2021 we recorded the worst home final loss for a Non-Vic side in AFL history.
• In 2022 V Melb, he led us to the only recorded goalless half in our history.
• Disobeyed tradition naming 2 captains for the first time in Port Adelaide History.

Ken Hinkley has a 60% (155W-103L) Record. Of that:

• He has padded the win stats with a 2nd best record Vs 5-18 during his tenure.
• Port is undefeated against bottom 10 interstate sides at Adelaide Oval, in day and Twilight games. 37W-0L.
• Port has padded stats (34W-3L) and beaten up on the worst teams in the comp with records of :
  • 13-0 vs Gold coast
  • 9-2 vs North
  • 12-1 vs StKilda

In honour of Ken's massive milestone this weekend, I think I've rounded up all of the key stats here, in the preview thread.

Other stats of interest:

• Goalless quarters, have died off in last few years
• Close game record, 2023 and 2024 have balanced out that ledger a bit
• Would also love at some stage to do an analysis of games lost despite large clearance/inside 50 differential, and possibly games lost based on goal kicking accuracy.