Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

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Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
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• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

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It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[sdfc]

This is the sort of guarantee that persuaded North Korea to not produce nuclear weapons.
Oh, err, wait!

The regional power and the global power have a history of aggression and they hate your guts. It's only rational for Iran to pursue nukes.

 

[Zidane98]

Imagine being the EU negotiator for the Iran deal and trying to convince them not to produce nuclear weapons because Israel and the US (potentially led by Donald Trump) are not a threat to them.

The world is giving Iran every reason to think a nuclear weapon is a fantastic idea. If I were an Iranian citizen, I'd be demanding we build nuclear weapons.

Iran call regularly for the destruction of Israel, attack it regularly through its proxies plus directly and they are the ones that need protection?

You'd get a job in the media department of Hamas politburo with your logic here.

As for nuclear weapons, laughable. Iran is an international pariah state, nobody is touching them unless they attack first.

If I were an Iranian citizen I'd be demanding the government pulls out of the Israel conflict altogether. It is incredible that what you've posted echos extremist ME rhetoric almost identically.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Iran call regularly for the destruction of Israel, attack it regularly through its proxies plus directly and they are the ones that need protection?

You'd get a job in the media department of Hamas politburo with your logic here.

As for nuclear weapons, laughable. Iran is an international pariah state, nobody is touching them unless they attack first.

If I were an Iranian citizen I'd be demanding the government pulls out of the Israel conflict altogether. It is incredible that what you've posted echos extremist ME rhetoric almost identically.

I suspect if you were Iranian you’d be keeping quiet (they have that whole totalitarian thing going).

 

[Zidane98]

I suspect if you were Iranian you’d be keeping quiet (they have that whole totalitarian thing going).

My VPN in Esfahan works great...


True. Although some seem to think that a pariah state who allies itself with Assad, Russia, Nth Korea etc and likes to regularly declare it's desire to wipe Jews & the USA off the face of the earth is an ideal candidate to become a nuclear armed state.

 

[Crankyhawk]

My VPN in Esfahan works great...


True. Although some seem to think that a pariah state who allies itself with Assad, Russia, Nth Korea etc and likes to regularly declare it's desire to wipe Jews & the USA off the face of the earth is an ideal candidate to become a nuclear armed state.

I'm not sure they are saying it is ideal, more that from an Iranian POV that they may need to do something to deter Israeli aggression (and yes their use of proxies certainly not helping re aggression either)
Israel attacking an embassy was an escalation beyond the proxy war and so a response occurred. Given that the Iranian attack did no practical damage and no deaths, Israel could have "let it go"
Biut Bibi and his far right allies don't see themselves as ever being in the wrong. We can be thankful that their attack was relatively muted (perhaps their way of deescalating)

 

[Ghost Patrol]

My VPN in Esfahan works great...


True. Although some seem to think that a pariah state who allies itself with Assad, Russia, Nth Korea etc and likes to regularly declare it's desire to wipe Jews & the USA off the face of the earth is an ideal candidate to become a nuclear armed state.

Do you really think USA are the good guys, given their warmongering history?

Isn't Israel a pariah state, due to the long list of UN resolutions that they ignore?

Do you hold Iran to a different standard, compared to USA backed Israel?

 

[faible]

I'm not sure they are saying it is ideal, more that from an Iranian POV that they may need to do something to deter Israeli aggression (and yes their use of proxies certainly not helping re aggression either)
Israel attacking an embassy was an escalation beyond the proxy war and so a response occurred. Given that the Iranian attack did no practical damage and no deaths, Israel could have "let it go"
Biut Bibi and his far right allies don't see themselves as ever being in the wrong. We can be thankful that their attack was relatively muted (perhaps their way of deescalating)

Netanyahu probably needs a constant state of war to remain in power, once there’s a stop and people take stock of the horrors he’s enacted upon the Palestinian people he should be gone.

 

[Zidane98]

I'm not sure they are saying it is ideal, more that from an Iranian POV that they may need to do something to deter Israeli aggression (and yes their use of proxies certainly not helping re aggression either)
Israel attacking an embassy was an escalation beyond the proxy war and so a response occurred. Given that the Iranian attack did no practical damage and no deaths, Israel could have "let it go"
Biut Bibi and his far right allies don't see themselves as ever being in the wrong. We can be thankful that their attack was relatively muted (perhaps their way of deescalating)

No nation would just let the attack that Iran launched "go". Maybe they could have found a better way to respond but it was never going to be a case of "let's call it even".

 

[Zidane98]

Do you really think USA are the good guys, given their warmongering history?

Isn't Israel a pariah state, due to the long list of UN resolutions that they ignore?

Do you hold Iran to a different standard, compared to USA backed Israel?

No, the US are not the good guys.

They also are not calling for the destruction of Palestine and are actually trying to reach a peaceful solution.

Israel are well on their way to becoming a parish state, agree with that.

 

[Chief]

They also are not calling for the destruction of Palestine and are actually trying to reach a peaceful solution.

Joe could stop sending them weapons. Might help.

 

[Crankyhawk]

No nation would just let the attack that Iran launched "go". Maybe they could have found a better way to respond but it was never going to be a case of "let's call it even".

Why not? No damage, Iran is somewhat humiliated by the ineffective attack, and you got away with the direct attack an the embassy.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Israel are well on their way to becoming a parish state, agree with that.

It seems they are already on the list

List of the 13 current Pariah States

13 countries that suffer from the sanctions imposed by the international community due to their mostly autocratic governments.

www.worlddata.info

It's interesting that US literacy rate is below the pariah states average literacy rate.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The regional power and the global power have a history of aggression and they hate your guts. It's only rational for Iran to pursue nukes.

I believe in mutally-assured destruction. While a world without nukes might be nice, that genie aint never going back in the bottle. Subsequently I like the idea of each nation holding a nuclear gun to the head of each and every rival.

Australia needs its own nuclear deterrent too. As do the other players in our backyard.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I believe in mutally-assured destruction. While a world without nukes might be nice, that genie aint never going back in the bottle. Subsequently I like the idea of each nation holding a nuclear gun to the head of each and every rival.

Australia needs its own nuclear deterrent too. As do the other players in our backyard.

Which is why we suck up to the USA.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Which is why we suck up to the USA.

With a deterrent we can stand on our own instead of hiding behind others.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With a deterrent we can stand on our own instead of hiding behind others.

Would be silly to have a facility to make weapons, without having one to make electricity.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Would be silly to have a facility to make weapons, without having one to make electricity.

Smart thinking!

 

[Zidane98]

With a deterrent we can stand on our own instead of hiding behind others.

Considering Australia's size and population a virtual impossibility. We will always be party to collective defense treaties. Worked well for us, no need to change.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Good it’s been de escalated but Geez Iran talk a tough game……fooling nobody worth their salt.

Israel would obliterate them very quickly if it came down to it.

 

[sherb]

No, the US are not the good guys.

They also are not calling for the destruction of Palestine and are actually trying to reach a peaceful solution.

Israel are well on their way to becoming a parish state, agree with that.

They are just enabling another country to do it via provision of arms and money.

Whilst at the same time vetoing a draft Security Council resolution to grant full UN membership to Palestine.

The US are such good friends of Palestine and the Palestinians........

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Considering Australia's size and population a virtual impossibility. We will always be party to collective defense treaties. Worked well for us, no need to change.

Not a fan to be honest. None of the sh*t the Yanks have involved us in since WW2 has been justified in my opinion.

 

[Zidane98]

They are just enabling another country to do it via provision of arms and money.

Whilst at the same time vetoing a draft Security Council resolution to grant full UN membership to Palestine.

The US are such good friends of Palestine and the Palestinians........

The US have proposed many resolutions to recognise Palestinian statehood. You just focus on the ones they veto.


You will also find that the official policy of the US us that the PA is the representative of Palestinian people, not Israel.

What is Iran's policy on Israel out of interest? How many attempts have they made at mediating a peaceful resolution between Israel & Palestine?

 

[sdfc]

I believe in mutally-assured destruction. While a world without nukes might be nice, that genie aint never going back in the bottle. Subsequently I like the idea of each nation holding a nuclear gun to the head of each and every rival.

Australia needs its own nuclear deterrent too. As do the other players in our backyard.

What could possibly go wrong.

 

[sdfc]

A 25 million missile policy would sort out our security issues.

 

[Boston tiger]

I believe in mutally-assured destruction. While a world without nukes might be nice, that genie aint never going back in the bottle. Subsequently I like the idea of each nation holding a nuclear gun to the head of each and every rival.

Australia needs its own nuclear deterrent too. As do the other players in our backyard.

Are still angry Johnny Howard took your gun off you ?