Toast WELCOME BACK: Grant Thomas

[busso_mick]

Did he really fail though..? He ahd 3 years here and the best winning record of any team during those years and a bunch of young players all yet to enter their primes. The team he laid the foundations of nearly won 2 flags. He did a damn sight better than any of our coaches after Lyon and most of our coaches before too.

His win/loss record was 63 wins / 59 losses. I'm not sure where you got your figures from? There is nothing wrong with trying to improve as a club, but this guy has got form in megalomania which is not conducive for football clubs.

 

[jwikked]

His win/loss record was 63 wins / 59 losses. I'm not sure where you got your figures from? There is nothing wrong with trying to improve as a club, but this guy has got form in megalomania which is not conducive for football clubs.

3 year period 2004-2006 he had 46 games won, 26 games lost including finals

 

[plugger66]

Wouldn't mind Grant back,he has that no nonsense prick attitude that we could well and truly do with,I understand we have a large debt but I would love to be to stand up to the afl and get some of that arrogance back,maybe thommo can do a peter Gordon and help out with the debt as well.......

I can’t see why he would help out money wise. Never given any indication he has any interest in doing that and unless he did the last thing we need to do is fight with the head office who clearly give us the most money of any Victorian club. If fox didn’t help with money I’m doubting Thomas would. And he comes across as a person who is never happy with much at all.

 

[plugger66]

The cultural stuff is definitely getting shoved out of the way in the pursuit of making us look like 3peat era Hawthorn. I have never felt more disconnected from the playing group or the club. It feels like we are an old pub in a rapidly gentrifying suburb, the locals loved the grand old dame with her peeling wall paper, sticky carpet and history of rock bands. Some Porsche driving developers have bought it and want to topple it and turn it into apartments with a high end bar and some upmarket retail down below.

We always had one or two home grown heroes who were jealously ogled by other supporters. Jack Steele is sort of that but not really with the same gravitas as a Plugger or Harves. The only players left from 5 years ago are Ross, Geary, Gresham, Membrey, Webster, McKenzie and Sinclair. They are own home grown crop of senior players, which with Membrey isn't even true.

I know losing Dunstan was pretty popular on here but he was one of the few with some heart and soul type vibes. He was like the temperamental beer taps that had been in the pub since the 1920s. Sure he wasn't great at pouring beer and you had to know his quirks to not lose more beer than you poured but he was part of the fabric.

I don't know how you keep the history and culture alive while rushing head on to try to cash in while the market is hot. You risk losing the only good thing about the place if you get it wrong. If they get the on field stuff right they'll start a new successful era and no-one will remember the rough old place that stood before. But get that wrong and it becomes an untenanted badly built brutalist eyesore and you've f’ed any chance of ever getting it back to what it was in it's prime.

It’s true that we are like every other club. If you want to go to what you are saying you need a time machine.

 

[austinnn]

The more you think about it.

The more GT back at the club makes sense.

At least he is undeniably St Kilda.

So is Ricky Nixon but I wouldn't want him involved

 

[Sun Ra]

I don't want GT in an actual role. I just want him agitating through his agent on the board. The "Dentist" sounds like a henchman.

In the 1976 film “Marathon Man,” British actor Laurence Olivier plays the role of a Nazi dentist who violently tortures the mouth of a Columbia University student, played by Dustin Hoffman. He keeps asking him, menacingly....."Is it safe ?" (Could be he's talking to Ratts about our defence ?) Maybe GT is going for the same vibe here ?

 

[austinnn]

The cultural stuff is definitely getting shoved out of the way in the pursuit of making us look like 3peat era Hawthorn. I have never felt more disconnected from the playing group or the club. It feels like we are an old pub in a rapidly gentrifying suburb, the locals loved the grand old dame with her peeling wall paper, sticky carpet and history of rock bands. Some Porsche driving developers have bought it and want to topple it and turn it into apartments with a high end bar and some upmarket retail down below.

We always had one or two home grown heroes who were jealously ogled by other supporters. Jack Steele is sort of that but not really with the same gravitas as a Plugger or Harves. The only players left from 5 years ago are Ross, Geary, Gresham, Membrey, Webster, McKenzie and Sinclair. They are own home grown crop of senior players, which with Membrey isn't even true.

I know losing Dunstan was pretty popular on here but he was one of the few with some heart and soul type vibes. He was like the temperamental beer taps that had been in the pub since the 1920s. Sure he wasn't great at pouring beer and you had to know his quirks to not lose more beer than you poured but he was part of the fabric.

I don't know how you keep the history and culture alive while rushing head on to try to cash in while the market is hot. You risk losing the only good thing about the place if you get it wrong. If they get the on field stuff right they'll start a new successful era and no-one will remember the rough old place that stood before. But get that wrong and it becomes an untenanted badly built brutalist eyesore and you've f’ed any chance of ever getting it back to what it was in it's prime.

As beautiful as you analogy is, it only goes so far. Are we Saints fans really going to be satisfied being the perennial loveable loser of the AFL? Unlike going to a pub, we do want glory and success, don't we? No, we don't want to lose our soul and become like every other team, but I believe we can keep our identity and fulfil our dreams, we've got very close in the past. Have the Dogs & Demons become less Western-ish and Melbourne-ish since they won their flags?

The question behind appointments like Rath, Ratts, GT, Hammil, Harvey, etc is this:

Are we better off as a club bringing in people who know our culture, who have tried and mostly failed for us in the past but who know our soul, or are we better of bringing in proven winners who are unencumbered with the very thing that held us back, who've seen other different and successful methods?

The answer isn't as straightforward as you'd think but I've often wondered if dyed in the wool fans of the St Kilda Football club would be alienated by sustained long term success.

I don't think we'd mind a bit of gentrification personally - but then again I don't mind gentrification in general these days, being mostly pragmatic and nihslistic. But I am aware that I am not your traditional Saints supporter, so how do the rest of you feel about it?

 

[True Blue Saint]

Have people forgotten how much of a power trip GT was on during his final seasons?

He would fire people and then take over their duties too. He was doing the jobs of about a dozen men by the end.

Doesn't like being told what to do and doesn't like empowering others.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Its no coincidence that GT is making a play just as we are starting to look half decent .... Benge is a conduit .... a puppet through which GT can stretch his self serving tentacles

If multi multi million millionaire GT is so concerned about the club then he should anonymously and selflessly donate to wipe of some of the clubs debt ..... but we know that ain't gunna happen as there would be no adulation in it for him.

We have a promising young core, won a final last year and then got smashed by injuries and the hardest draw in the comp... the current board should at least be given a chance to see this period through

 

[Premium]

So is Ricky Nixon but I wouldn't want him involved

GT has never had a good word to say about Saints since he left , if he was such a good supporter once in a while he could say something that doesn't slag the team.
We are heading in the right direction with a young squad the last thing we need is him dragging us down all of the time.

 

[gringo2011]

As beautiful as you analogy is, it only goes so far. Are we Saints fans really going to be satisfied being the perennial loveable loser of the AFL? Unlike going to a pub, we do want glory and success, don't we? No, we don't want to lose our soul and become like every other team, but I believe we can keep our identity and fulfil our dreams, we've got very close in the past. Have the Dogs & Demons become less Western-ish and Melbourne-ish since they won their flags?

The question behind appointments like Rath, Ratts, GT, Hammil, Harvey, etc is this:

Are we better off as a club bringing in people who know our culture, who have tried and mostly failed for us in the past but who know our soul, or are we better of bringing in proven winners who are unencumbered with the very thing that held us back, who've seen other different and successful methods?

The answer isn't as straightforward as you'd think but I've often wondered if dyed in the wool fans of the St Kilda Football club would be alienated by sustained long term success.

I don't think we'd mind a bit of gentrification personally - but then again I don't mind gentrification in general these days, being mostly pragmatic and nihslistic. But I am aware that I am not your traditional Saints supporter, so how do the rest of you feel about it?

I want the make-over maybe more than the knock down rebuild. The Hawks of 10 years ago does seem to be chasing a dated model as well. It's a balance. I want success more than anything. Just make sure you get it right or you end up losing the culture and still don't arrive. The worst would be to alienate people from the past and still not win a premiership. The way it's going at the moment there is no continuity with the past, like we are washing our hands clean of everything from the past.

I think Melbourne and the Dogs have both been very conscious of their history. Melbourne actively courted ex players during 2021 and had lots of history stuff drilled into the players. WBDs are the same, they are an old boys club with Ex players in lots of positions. Their heritage is part of their identity and their western suburbs working class history is celebrated. We are a little trickier with less of an obvious brand though.

 

[austinnn]

I want the make-over maybe more than the knock down rebuild. The Hawks of 10 years ago does seem to be chasing a dated model as well. It's a balance. I want success more than anything. Just make sure you get it right or you end up losing the culture and still don't arrive. The worst would be to alienate people from the past and still not win a premiership. The way it's going at the moment there is no continuity with the past, like we are washing our hands clean of everything from the past.

I think Melbourne and the Dogs have both been very conscious of their history. Melbourne actively courted ex players during 2021 and had lots of history stuff drilled into the players. WBDs are the same, they are an old boys club with Ex players in lots of positions. Their heritage is part of their identity and their western suburbs working class history is celebrated. We are a little trickier with less of an obvious brand though.

Not sure if I agree we don't have a strong brand. We play on that St Kilda (suburb) ID a lot, with the Sacred Heart involvement and the muso angles. We should do it more really, bit our problem is we have multiple IDs, that and the SE suburban side, and they are hard to reconcile.

I agree about chasing the Hawks old model, but who's to say these guys aren't forging their own way? If it's about insisting on good disposal, I'm all for a bit more skill after years of the labour intensive Strong At The Contest chaosball Richo favoured. We don't have to copy Melbourne either. If anyone can find a new way, we have to hope it will be these guys, although after 2021 I'm extremely doubtful. Most important year coming up since 2018.

 

[Premium]

Not sure if I agree we don't have a strong brand. We play on that St Kilda (suburb) ID a lot, with the Sacred Heart involvement and the muso angles. We should do it more really, bit our problem is we have multiple IDs, that and the SE suburban side, and they are hard to reconcile.

I agree about chasing the Hawks old model, but who's to say these guys aren't forging their own way? If it's about insisting on good disposal, I'm all for a bit more skill after years of the labour intensive Strong At The Contest chaosball Richo favoured. We don't have to copy Melbourne either. If anyone can find a new way, we have to hope it will be these guys, although after 2021 I'm extremely doubtful. Most important year coming up since 2018.

Geelong has never been able to shrug off the handbag image , thank god we are not known for that.

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure if I agree we don't have a strong brand. We play on that St Kilda (suburb) ID a lot, with the Sacred Heart involvement and the muso angles. We should do it more really, bit our problem is we have multiple IDs, that and the SE suburban side, and they are hard to reconcile.

I agree about chasing the Hawks old model, but who's to say these guys aren't forging their own way? If it's about insisting on good disposal, I'm all for a bit more skill after years of the labour intensive Strong At The Contest chaosball Richo favoured. We don't have to copy Melbourne either. If anyone can find a new way, we have to hope it will be these guys, although after 2021 I'm extremely doubtful. Most important year coming up since 2018.

Chaos works in finals though. Geelong and West Coast are the only two that really use it still and GWS somewhat. When the tempo goes up and you go man on man with pressure on every kick you rarely get to exploit your strength. WCE are the only recent team to win a premiership using it and they had a long low percentage kick in the dying seconds to steal it against a good but not amazing Collingwood.

Richo had issues with the list. I think it's pretty safe to say the drafting and list management might have been a huge impediment to his chances of winning games. He was a limited battler with a limited battler list and it worked out about exactly how you would imagine it would. We should aspire to be the most skilled we can be but we should aspire to exploit what we have available as well. No point in beating your donkey because it's not a racehorse.

 

[Teflon]

Divisive waste of space
Bags the club for years then crawls out when we start to look ok with made up issues to stir up trouble for him
Doesn’t care about the dentist- he’s a puppet
Hope this Board tells him to far cough
Put your squillions in Grant - actually do something worthwhile for the club that isn’t about you
Won’t happen

 

[austinnn]

Chaos works in finals though. Geelong and West Coast are the only two that really use it still and GWS somewhat. When the tempo goes up and you go man on man with pressure on every kick you rarely get to exploit your strength. WCE are the only recent team to win a premiership using it and they had a long low percentage kick in the dying seconds to steal it against a good but not amazing Collingwood.

Richo had issues with the list. I think it's pretty safe to say the drafting and list management might have been a huge impediment to his chances of winning games. He was a limited battler with a limited battler list and it worked out about exactly how you would imagine it would. We should aspire to be the most skilled we can be but we should aspire to exploit what we have available as well. No point in beating your donkey because it's not a racehorse.

Richo may have had issues with the list, but he and his crew left a terrible development legacy. How no one at the club did anything about this is nothing less than negligence. I'm more supportive of Matt Finnis than most here but his big brainfart was making Jamie Cox Director of Football. Cox was the guy who should have implemented a long term development program. He did not. Who knows what many of our players could have become with the development that other successful teams had.

You're right about the list management too. It's great that none of players wanted to leave (apart from Cripps and Lynch) but we let our list stagnate until it rotted.

Bloody waste, that's what it was. I didn't realise at the time. If Finnis goes, it's because he carries the can for that failure.

EDIT: the masochistic side of me would prove to read an in-depth account of St Kilda Football Club 2010-2020. Roo's autobiog only goes so far. A study of how not to fun a football club for the most part.

 

[tomjoad]

I don't want GT in an actual role. I just want him agitating through his agent on the board. The "Dentist" sounds like a henchman.

Bricktop vibes.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Richo may have had issues with the list, but he and his crew left a terrible development legacy. How no one at the club did anything about this is nothing less than negligence. I'm more supportive of Matt Finnis than most here but his big brainfart was making Jamie Cox Director of Football. Cox was the guy who should have implemented a long term development program. He did not. Who knows what many of our players could have become with the development that other successful teams had.

You're right about the list management too. It's great that none of players wanted to leave (apart from Cripps and Lynch) but we let our list stagnate until it rotted.

Bloody waste, that's what it was. I didn't realise at the time. If Finnis goes, it's because he carries the can for that failure.

EDIT: the masochistic side of me would prove to read an in-depth account of St Kilda Football Club 2010-2020. Roo's autobiog only goes so far. A study of how not to fun a football club for the most part.

I'm not sure that there are many players who don't eventually develop. To me its the time frame.
Ross 5 Seasons.
McKenzie 5 or 6 seasons.
Not sure if there are many others that we let go who would have become anything greater, but it also helps to weed out the failures sooner rather than later.

 

[borderbarry]

Ross was picked up inthe same draft as Jimmy Webster

29

Jimmy Webster

Age

31

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

288.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

and Jack Newnes

32

Jack Newnes

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

11.3

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.3

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

13.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.4

3star

more like 8 seasons agp.,

 

[robjude]

GT had his time ...... and failed .... why would it be any different the 2nd time around?

Have you not heard the quote " If at first you don't succeed, try try again!"
Besides he was very stiff the first time around with bad injury luck to critical players in those finals times. I believe he was on the cusp of being a premiership coach if it wasn't for that drunken drug taking clown Butteres

 

[Crusty Undies]

How many leaders did he create?

Roo, Lenny, BJ, Dal, Fisher et al.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ross was picked up inthe same draft as Jimmy Webster and Jack Newnes more like 8 seasons agp.,

Yes, it took him around 5 years to become a good player.
Got to say that Newnes hit the ground running though.

 

[AFLOnline]

I don’t blame GT because he’s almost at the age where you start to worry that you may never see a Saints flag in your lifetime, particularly if it doesn’t come in the next five years. The first half of this season would make you question whether these guys have any idea what they’re doing but the second half would have to give him some confidence at least.

Bro my daughter is 6 months old and I fear she won’t even see a Saints flag in her lifetime.

of course GT is worried

 

[bergholt]

Stick him on the board, he's smart enough and his heart's in the right place. Dump Russell Caplan or Paul Kirk, they're both muppets.

 

[Joffaboy]

Divisive waste of space
Bags the club for years then crawls out when we start to look ok with made up issues to stir up trouble for him
Doesn’t care about the dentist- he’s a puppet
Hope this Board tells him to far cough
Put your squillions in Grant - actually do something worthwhile for the club that isn’t about you
Won’t happen

We know that, its about Thomas and his huge ego. Would wreck the joint.