Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[doppleganger]

How is this different to Western Australians (or any other Non-Vic). This whole thread is about us supporting our club, and not the league, and (mainly Collingwood fans) telling us if we hate the league so much, piss off.

It is actually a couple of wowser Sydney and Port fans in "good faith" trying to align themselves with WA teams in terms of travel, and then pretending all VIC teams are advantaged like Collingwood.

It is primarily Pie posters who point out that the disadvantaged clubs are actually the small Melbourne/Marvel tenants.

But the SA and Sydney sooks just keep getting gifted top2 H&A finishes and complaining about how hard they have it.

 

[Freomaniac]

That would only apply to WA teams.

Vic teams like Hawthorn, North and Melbourne have similar travel impost to the SA and Swans.

And for finals, players get a bye and if a top2 finish non-vic team they just sit at home for a month with no travel.

Some teams making 10 primarily short trips where there is minimal to no time zone change over a 6 month season, compared to others only making 6-7...it is a red herring.

How many games you get where you are at a distinct ground advantage is most important.

I agree the Victorians are racially superior to the non Vic people lol

 

[My_Username]

Tiges had a great era through coaching tactics which changed the game and recruiting of pace without worrying about height to complement that game style. The rest of the footy world was putting a line through blokes under 6 foot - they went and won 3 flags with about 10 such players in their teams.

and the AFL went at them hard for it, explicitly changing rules and definitions to stop them, and how the umpires suddenly "just happened" to treat them as, by far, the most unfair team in the comp (and still do).

In keeping with the thread topic, can you image the outcry if that happened to a non-Vic club?

 

[My_Username]

I will tell you now, it wouldn't have worked, you may think i'm joking, but Victorians are not like West Australians, we would have followed our teams in the VFL and stuck the middle finger up at the AFL, we support our clubs not the league.

Yes, but it was also the Vic clubs themselves.

Such ideas were looked at (I think John Elliot was behind at least one attempt), but most of the Vic clubs said no, and the ones that were open to leaving much preferred maintaining their rivalries with other Vic clubs than moving into a 'national' comp. (so, in effect, Carlton might have wanted to leave, but wouldn't do so if it meant they no longer got to regularly play Collingwood, Essendon and Richmond).

At the end of the day, a 'national' comp could be viable without WA or SA, but without Vic clubs it was always a non starter, and this was the only way they'd say yes to it.

It's clearly far from perfect, but it's hard to see it realistically coming about any other way.

 

[Grin]

I agree the Victorians are racially superior to the non Vic people lol

Or maybe it's the way clubs are managed, or club culture. Maybe there's disadvantages in being a parochial club in a less competitive environment.

the disadvantaged clubs are actually the small Melbourne/Marvel tenants.

For those in anyway interested in statistics, this is undeniable.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

When I lived in WA, every person I met followed a VFL club, at the same time, no-one I knew in Vic followed an interstate club.

It's an obsession you lot have with Vic, and I would guess that's why you all jumped ship the 1st second you could, to try stick it up the Vics.

No-one in Vic gave a rats about the WA clubs most still don't we love our clubs and would have stuck with them in the VFL.

And really we don't care if you piss off back to your leagues, do it, like I said we don't really care, if you want to stay, stay, I just can't understand why a lot of the older ones can abandon their clubs if they hate this league, you could always go back to the clubs y'all followed.
And don't start with the, "but the AFL" it was the VFL when you joined and your clubs didn't join, you jumped ship to follow a brand new made up club.

This really only applies to those in their late 40s and older (in WA at least). Any younger and you don't know anything other than the Eagles. I'm 40 so was two when the Eagles joined. And they would have had VFL clubs because they were following their favourite WA players that went over. You can see clumps of people of certain ages who followed certain WAFL clubs "supporting" certain VFL clubs because of those links. It wasn't a weird obsession with Victoria, it was wanting to see their favourite players in the (bankrupt by the 80s) big league. Also back then we wouldn't have gotten full VFL games on TV either, it would have been highlights packages on footy shows where they got glimpses of the Krakours or whoever.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

When I lived in WA, every person I met followed a VFL club, at the same time, no-one I knew in Vic followed an interstate club.

It's an obsession you lot have with Vic, and I would guess that's why you all jumped ship the 1st second you could, to try stick it up the Vics.

No-one in Vic gave a rats about the WA clubs most still don't we love our clubs and would have stuck with them in the VFL.

And really we don't care if you piss off back to your leagues, do it, like I said we don't really care, if you want to stay, stay, I just can't understand why a lot of the older ones can abandon their clubs if they hate this league, you could always go back to the clubs y'all followed.
And don't start with the, "but the AFL" it was the VFL when you joined and your clubs didn't join, you jumped ship to follow a brand new made up club.

You clearly did not meet many people.

 

[LoungeLizard]

This really only applies to those in their late 40s and older (in WA at least). Any younger and you don't know anything other than the Eagles. I'm 40 so was two when the Eagles joined. And they would have had VFL clubs because they were following their favourite WA players that went over. You can see clumps of people of certain ages who followed certain WAFL clubs supporting certain VFL clubs because of those links. It wasn't a weird obsession with Victoria, it was wanting to see their favourite players in the (bankrupt by the 80s) big league. Also back then we wouldn't have gotten full VFL games on TV either, it would have been highlights packages on footy shows where they wanted glimpses of the Krakours or whoever.

True, the younger ones do have an excuse, but I have no sympathy for the older ones who jumped ship, foregoing the right to ever talk about loyalty again.
I'm not too sure about following players either, I remember a while ago, this same argument was raised and a WC supporter tried using Maurice Rioli as an example, Maurice was not from WA, he was poached from NT before Richmond poached him.

 

[sr36]

Yeah I know it's not feasible without fewer teams and/or conferences.

It all goes back to the creation of the national comp. It should have been seperate to and above any existing competition. Unfortunately a lot of the blame there rests with WA. We should have held out with SA.

The thing is, if they had have created a super league and gotten Australian footy fans onboard. There would have been 2 options.

A) make iit proportional in terms of players and fans and you'd be looking at something like:

Vic: 5 clubs
Wa: 2 clubs
SA: 1 club
NSW: 1 club
QLD: 1 club

10 teams and an 18 game season

Travel:
Vics 5 travel games
SA, NSW, QLD - 9 travel games
WA ,8

Broadcasting dynamic doesn't change so there's still the pressure regarding Vic blockbusters.

MCG remains the most logical gf venue.

What changes in terms of what people complain about?

B) create a comp with 2 teams from each state.

Travel is equalised. Woo hoo.

However, the 2 Vic clubs become 2 or 3 times the size of WCE. And 55% of players come from a state that only has 20% of clubs. Demand for a Vic list spot amongst players means that they will have to take a pay cut to play in Victoria and thus Vic clubs can afford much better teams.

And we're going to have to expand the MCG, so there's even less reason to move the GF

Which way would you go?

 

[LoungeLizard]

You clearly did not meet many people.

You seem so sure about that.

Did I hit a nerve or something?

 

[JackOutback]

You clearly did not meet many people.

Correct, I never had a VFL team, don't remember many of my friends at the time having one either. Like you, it was the Cardies for me. And guess what, I still follow them.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

True, the younger ones do have an excuse, but I have no sympathy for the older ones who jumped ship, foregoing the right to ever talk about loyalty again.
I'm not too sure about following players either, I remember a while ago, this same argument was raised and a WC supporter tried using Maurice Rioli as an example, Maurice was not from WA, he was poached from NT before Richmond poached him.

You talking about Maurice Rioli Snr? He played 163 games for South Freo (more than he did for Richmond), and 14 SoO games for WA. And captained WA. He played for South Freo before and after his stint with Richmond.

He wasn't born here, but so what?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You seem so sure about that.

Did I hit a nerve or something?

Not at all, i gues it depends when you lived here. If you lived here pre the Eagles then if you asked anyone in WA who they support in football they would of said a WAFL team.
You would of then had to ask them do you support anyone in the VFL and the answer would of been I like North Melbourne because the Glendenning plays for them. Or I like Essendon because Leon Baker players for them.
I am not sure how much the VFL was followed in WA as it was not on Tv and all we saw of it was 1 hour of highlights on the winners on Sunday night.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You talking about Maurice Rioli Snr? He played 163 games for South Freo (more than he did for Richmond), and 14 SoO games for WA. And captained WA. He played for South Freo before and after his stint with Richmond.

He wasn't born here, but so what?

Yep Maurice played his best football in the WAFL for South Fremantle.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Not at all, i gues it depends when you lived here. If you lived here pre the Eagles then if you asked anyone in WA who they support in football they would of said a WAFL team.
You would of then had to ask them do you support anyone in the VFL and the answer would of been I like North Melbourne because the Glendenning plays for them. Or I like Essendon because Leon Baker players for them.
I am not sure how much the VFL was followed in WA as it was not on Tv and all we saw of it was 1 hour of highlights on the winners on Sunday night.

It's pretty simple, if I talked to someone, they usually asked where I was from, soon as I said Vic, the conversation usually turned to footy.
And I never met a person that didn't follow a Vic team, and I know you don't want to hear it, but I met many, I was there for 3+ months.

 

[LoungeLizard]

You talking about Maurice Rioli Snr? He played 163 games for South Freo (more than he did for Richmond), and 14 SoO games for WA. And captained WA. He played for South Freo before and after his stint with Richmond.

He wasn't born here, but so what?

He was poached to play there, same as Richmond poaching him.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It's pretty simple, if I talked to someone, they usually asked where I was from, soon as I said Vic, the conversation usually turned to footy.
And I never met a person that didn't follow a Vic team, and I know you don't want to hear it, but I met many, I was there for 3+ months.

Fair enough. Why would I not want to hear it? I lived it here. I actually know. You have a 3 month sample and like I said thats fair enough to.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Fair enough. Why would I not want to hear it? I lived it here. I actually know. You have a 3 month sample and like I said thats fair enough to.

Probably because of the comment, "you clearly didn't meet many"

 

[doppleganger]

I agree the Victorians are racially superior to the non Vic people lol

Not all , just the Port fans.

 

[sr36]

and the AFL went at them hard for it, explicitly changing rules and definitions to stop them, and how the umpires suddenly "just happened" to treat them as, by far, the most unfair team in the comp (and still do).

In keeping with the thread topic, can you image the outcry if that happened to a non-Vic club?

I'm not sure that I agree with you. I think the Tigers of 2017, with a really short forward line realised they were better off risking frees by having their forwards scrag to bring the ball to ground. And that tactic continued and was expanded to other situations. I think you copped more frees because you were willing to risk more frees.

It did happen post 2010 though when Malthouse changed how interchange was used which gave us an edge and all of a sudden lots of interchanges was a bad look that needed to go and we got interchange caps.

Or even this year to a lesser extent - the tightening of interpretations that killed the lock down to stop scoring tactics that we used to protect a lead.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

He was poached to play there, same as Richmond poaching him.

Bit if an odd example to use really. Where did Richmond poach him from?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Bit if an odd example to use really. Where did Richmond poach him from?

You know the answer.
But he wasn't from WA, I doubt many would have followed Richmond, because he went there.

I can understand with the Krakour brothers, Cable etc. I actually met more people who followed North than anyone else over there.
So I suppose you are correct they did follow players when I think more about it.

 

[peetoo]

I like to hear the dockers and eagles home ground advantage you speak of. Magpies get 22 games at the MCG and one game at Docklands lol

So we aren’t posting facts any more?

 

[JackOutback]

You know the answer.
But he wasn't from WA, I doubt many would have followed Richmond, because he went there.

I can understand with the Krakour brothers, Cable etc. I actually met more people who followed North than anyone else over there.
So I suppose you are correct they did follow players when I think more about it.

You don't think a South Fremantle fan may have followed Rioli's career with interest just because he wasn't originally from WA? Odd thought process. You think Eagles fans had no interest in Judd's career after 2007 because he's Victorian?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You know the answer.
But he wasn't from WA, I doubt many would have followed Richmond, because he went there.

I can understand with the Krakour brothers, Cable etc. I actually met more people who followed North than anyone else over there.
So I suppose you are correct they did follow players when I think more about it.

My dad had a soft spot for Essendon, not sure where that came from. I sort of liked Richmond in the Early 80,s. Again not sure why? Maybe because they were a good team and they were on the winners regularly. Then when Leon Baker went to Essendon I changed to keeping an eye on them as Baker played for my club in Bunbury.
It was a no brainer to follow the WA club when they joined the VFL.