Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Charlie Bucket]

There is a player that says he won't go interstate every year including this one and usually the clubs don't call the bluff.
Even if a club did complain the AFL wouldn't do anything for a few reasons, they wouldn't want to upset the players association and they wouldn't want to make a scene they'd never let something like draft tampering see the light of day whether it be a player refusing to be drafted interstate, clubs trading picks under the caveat of not bidding on academy/Father sons or players skating through the draft with a huge price on their head only to smooth it out 6 months later.

Much like the tanking issues during Demetriou’s tenure.

Nothing to see here!

 

[threenewpadlocks]

There is a player that says he won't go interstate every year including this one and usually the clubs don't call the bluff.
Even if a club did complain the AFL wouldn't do anything for a few reasons, they wouldn't want to upset the players association and they wouldn't want to make a scene they'd never let something like draft tampering see the light of day whether it be a player refusing to be drafted interstate, clubs trading picks under the caveat of not bidding on academy/Father sons or players skating through the draft with a huge price on their head only to smooth it out 6 months later.

It essentially means that you have two sets of rules though.

The set of rules that are written down and theoretically equally applied.

And the set of rules that clubs, players, the players' association and the AFL all have an "understanding" of such as not rocking the boat, like the examples you give.

The issue is that the two set of rules look miles apart in terms of fairness etc. when we all agree that Geelong and Connors and Smith are all taking the piss a bit here, as fundamentally, their pick in the 20's is not that good a pick, and they're exploiting the difference in those two sets of rules.

St Kilda or whoever could easily just go to the next draft and say "well, what's the point of drafting another Bailey Smith with our own top 10 pick, as we'll lose them to Geelong in six years' time". The reason that they don't do that because that second set of rules that you outline would get them a good pick. Not a great pick, but one better than pick 21 or whatever. Drafted players are in theory only tied to their club for three or two years. What's stopping literally every AFL player as a collective not re-signing after their draftee contract and doing a Smith here. The whole system would just blow up. Nobody would even know how to value a draft pick at all.

Connors surely can't be a fan with other players and their managers these days, and should be told to pull their head in, surely, because they're basically taking advantage of the league-wide understanding. If there's ever a reason to break open and call the bluff, it's because Geelong are merely offering pick 21.

As I've made the point several times before, at least Adelaide offered a better pick for Dawson (pick 18), for a player who was less rated at the time of the trade, even though his position was eerily similar to Smith's now, and even everyone agrees at the time that Adelaide underpaid for Dawson.

Like, what if we never re-signed Joel Freijah last year, and he plays his second year, dominates, gets out of contract, everyone agrees that he's worth a top 10 pick ... and his manager phones around to other clubs not to draft him, because he's only going to play for one club, and the Dogs have to accept pick 99 for him? What was the point of our recruiting team being geniuses and identifying Freijah and developing him late if he just delists himself and his manager draft tampers after just two years as a 18 and 19 year old for us? (Of course that's not going to happen, just an example that's not substantially different to Smith here).

It's only the general understanding by all clubs and the fact that players and their managers that are generally not shit people (of which it's clear Smith is, here), that stops things like that happening.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Wait did Sanders and Croft retire already?

Doggy Dan was referring to the trade period not the draft

 

[grassman75]

What's stopping Geelong offering a future swap of 4th and 5th round picks for Smith then?

What's stopping Geelong only drafting Smith with their literal last pick in the draft then?

If I was a club answering those calls to Connors those would be the questions I'd be posing to him.

They never will, but imagine in the AFL suspended Smith for 12 months for breaching the AFL rules or whatever.

Lay down with Cats….get fleas….

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

why is lawson humphries mentioned now like geelong have selected a superstar every year in the 70’s?

maybe we should try get back pick 105 seeing as we got chris grant.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Connors face has always shit me.
Used car salesman vibes.
Can’t stand him.

any other manager would side with us and pressure Geelong to add to the deal that everyone knows is unders.

 

[Mojorisin]

It essentially means that you have two sets of rules though.

The set of rules that are written down and theoretically equally applied.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell.

 

[TiAn_]

If Smith were a RFA the compo would be pick 14. So we’re only 3 picks off that. I doubt we’d match and force a trade.

You only get a good trade deal out of contract if the player and manager don’t want to **** over your club. But Smith has sooked for two years and has made it clear for weeks (e.g. trade request at start of B&F) that he’s bitter and wants to try and give an FU on the way out. And we seem to have an ordinary relationship with Connors to boot, dating back to the Stringer episode.

 

[dogwatch]

There are not many trade periods where we have appeared to have improved our list. We are surely weaker without Smith, Macrae and Daniel and no early draft picks. The only gain will be some salary cap relief for the future. We had no say in losing Smith and I can understand losing Jacko and Caleb. My rant is we very rarely attract players we need they always go to other clubs.

...

2023 Nick Coffield
2023 James Harmes
2022 Rory Lobb
2022 Liam Jones
2021 -
2020 Adam Treloar
2020 Mitch Hannan
2020 Stefan Martin
2019 Josh Bruce
2019 Alex Keath
2018 Taylor Duryea
2018 Sam Lloyd
2017 Hayden Crozier
2017 Josh Schache

How far do you want to go back? Shall I keep going?

Not all were stars but some decent players in that list. Those in bold are still on our list. That's almost 20% of our list.

 

[DannyB4]

The guy is a turd. He smells so no wonder the rest of the group kept their distance.

He showed up to Weightman's art show on the same night as the AA Awards night.

He was one of 2 outliers there though.

Most guests were there because they were Bulldog's player who are mates of Cody.

The 2 outliers were Brand Petracca who was there to show off his "cooking skills" and Brand Bazw*nker who was there to flog his sh*tty canned drink.

 

[DannyB4]

For all the talk of players they're losing...

Perryman
Cumming
Peatling
Maybe Derksen


It's not really an inspiring list. It's fairly overplayed. The top 2 were 2 of the most overrated players at the plastics.

They killed it with compensation picks. A joke.

Perryman
Cumming
Peatling
Haynes

O'Halloran
Derksen

Preuss
Kennedy
Hamilton

 

[Doggy]

Perryman
Cumming
Peatling
Haynes

O'Halloran
Derksen

Preuss
Kennedy
Hamilton

True.

Most of which didn't play for most of the year.

They're really not losing much

 

[Deadly Darcy]

I seem to remember there is an AFL mediator that the clubs can refer to when a deal can’t get done? When does that process start?

 

[Optimistic Dog]

2023 Nick Coffield
2023 James Harmes
2022 Rory Lobb
2022 Liam Jones
2021 -
2020 Adam Treloar
2020 Mitch Hannan
2020 Stefan Martin
2019 Josh Bruce
2019 Alex Keath
2018 Taylor Duryea
2018 Sam Lloyd
2017 Hayden Crozier
2017 Josh Schache

How far do you want to go back? Shall I keep going?

Not all were stars but some decent players in that list. Those in bold are still on our list. That's

almost 20% of our list.

One star in Treloar one very good player at the end of his career in Jones and few handy players. In the period you have quoted we have lost Dunkley, Lipinski, Stringer, Smith, Macrae, Daniel, Dalhaus, Cordy, Hunter, Sweet from memory. I think like Australia we are in a trade deficit.

 

[DannyB4]

One star in Treloar one very good player at the end of his career in Jones and few handy players. In the period you have quoted we have lost Dunkley, Lipinski, Stringer, Smith, Macrae, Daniel, Dalhaus, Cordy, Hunter, Sweet from memory. I think like Australia we are in a trade deficit.

Cordy, Hunter, Stringer, Dalhaus, Lipinski are no big loss. They've done nothing at their new clubs either and a few of them were a stain on our culture. And Lipinski went from being a Sub/VFL player for us to a lucky sub in the GF for the Pies.

Macrae and Daniel haven't left yet, and even if they do we'll get decent capital back for them and they didn't fit into our system as much anymore. But they'll be given a hero's goodbye as long time servants who are no longer needed.

Dunkley left because he didn't want to be a HF/Role Player anymore, and now he is a Tagger/HF/Role Player at his new club.

Sweet couldn't get a game for us, he did well for Port in the finals but even they preferred Soldo before Sweet.

I don't think we've actually lost anyone we genuinely care about or wanted to keep apart from Dunkley. And we have definitely not lost anyone who went on to become a star. Dunkley wanted to be the No.1 Mid in a team and now he's just a tagger and probably 3rd/4th best mid at Brisbane.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Cordy, Hunter, Stringer, Dalhaus, Lipinski are no big loss. They've done nothing at their new clubs either and a few of them were a stain on our culture. And Lipinski went from being a Sub/VFL player for us to a Sub/VFL player for the Pies.

Macrae and Daniel haven't left yet, and even if they do we'll get decent capital back for them and they didn't fit into our system as much anymore. But they'll be given a hero's goodbye as long time servants who are no longer needed.

Dunkley left because he didn't want to be a HF/Role Player anymore, and now he is a Tagger/HF/Role Player at his new club.

Sweet couldn't get a game for us, he did well for Port in the finals but even they preferred Soldo before Sweet.

I don't think we've actually lost anyone we genuinely care about or wanted to keep apart from Dunkley. And we have definitely not lost anyone who went on to become a star. Dunkley wanted to be the No.1 Mid in a team and now he's just a tagger and probably 3rd/4th best mid at Brisbane.

Lipinski has played 62 games at Collingwood and no VFL games. 6th in the B+F in 22, 7th in the B+F in 24. He's a good player and unnecessary to talk him down.

Also talking down Dunkley massively

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Lipinski has played 62 games at Collingwood and no VFL games. 6th in the B+F in 22, 7th in the B+F in 24. He's a good player and unnecessary to talk him down.

Also talking down Dunkley massively

But we've been a good team and there's always going to be a salary cap squeeze as you gain and lose players as a good or bad team.

We literally had one player recruited and lost at both ends of that cycle - Koby Stevens.

It's impossible to literally keep everyone, so the fact that we haven't literally kept everyone isn't really proving a point.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

But we've been a good team and there's always going to be a salary cap squeeze as you gain and lose players as a good or bad team.

We literally had one player recruited and lost at both ends of that cycle - Koby Stevens.

It's impossible to literally keep everyone, so the fact that we haven't literally kept everyone isn't really proving a point.

Was legit just responding to a post calling Lipinski a sub/VFL player and Dunkley a tagger/HF/role player. Neither are close to being true

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Was legit just responding to a post calling Lipinski a sub/VFL player and Dunkley a tagger/HF/role player. Neither are close to being true

Fair enough

 

[Ash1337]

Pick 13 is back on the table. Port has pulled out of the deal.

 

[Dogs Rule]

At what point do the AFL, when a player requests a trade, do they attach a value on that player which must be adhered to for a trade to go through?

So if the AFL say Smith is worth a pick between 10-12 plus a pick 20-25
then the club that wants him must use or find those picks or the trade doesn't happen.

This way the bull**** narrative of our club being difficult, Geelong p***ing around and media saying just shut up and take what you're given doesn't happen. It becomes simple.

 

[Fossie 32]

Lipinski has played 62 games at Collingwood and no VFL games. 6th in the B+F in 22, 7th in the B+F in 24. He's a good player and unnecessary to talk him down.

Also talking down Dunkley massively

Hah good facts for those on here who don’t rate Lipi. Where did he finish in 23?

 

[Fossie 32]

Hmm good points the mediator needs to step up

I seem to remember there is an AFL mediator that the clubs can refer to when a deal can’t get done? When does that process start?

At what point do the AFL, when a player requests a trade, do they attach a value on that player which must be adhered to for a trade to go through?

So if the AFL say Smith is worth a pick between 10-12 plus a pick 20-25
then the club that wants him must use or find those picks or the didn't doesn't happen.

This way the bull**** narrative of our club being difficult, Geelong p***ing around and media saying just shut up and take what you're given doesn't happen. It becomes simple.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Hah good facts for those on here who don’t rate Lipi. Where did he finish in 23?

Not top 10

He didn't play until King's Birthday because of a preseason shoulder injury, so missed half the season. Don't think he had a great 2023 to be honest, definitely the worst of his years, and was probably lucky to keep his spot for the GF but had a solid game GF day

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Carlton set to get pick 3 from West Coast. Crazy!

Will be interesting to see how much they give up. Very high pick to split if the aim is primarily just to get Baker (admittedly a very good player but not convinced he is a massive game changer for a low team).