Restricted Free Agent Tom De Koning

[Jeremias]

This thread might be going for a while. Please respect board rules and each other.

As a starting point, let's leave any references to 'culture' at the door.

Thread bans and infractions will be handed out as necessary.

Thanks.

 

[Dogflogger]

Because that's how the system works. If we match it and TDK has committed to going the Saints have to come to the trade table with adequate compensation.

He's not unrestricted.

Yes no doubt the system works that way, only we would not be forced to trade for him we could just let Carlton keep him.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I understand what it means and it’s beyond nuts.

You're still doing it...

We want both. You can ask for whatever you want. You won’t be getting anything off us. This is about getting TDK as a free agent - hence the significant overpaying.

It's not up to you or me.
restricted free agent.

If you match he stays.

There you go again.
We will not be matching with the intention of him staying. There is no scenario where we match and he stays.
If he stays, it's on our offer.
If we match, it's because he's already agreed that he's going.

If he leaves. He will be playing with Marshall. He was literally interviewed today saying he would play forward if he needed to.

As already said, what else is he going to say? We're a long way off from anything happening. At this point in time, He's a the Saints and Tom is at Carlton, with virtually the whole season still to play out.
It might be 100% true that he's happy to stay, but he's seriously not going to say any different at this point in time. He doesn't need to make any kind of decision until Tom is nearly in the door, so why rock the boat now?

There isn’t an issue here other then this nuts talk from you and other Carlton supporters telling me and other saints fans that:

• 3 first round picks for TDK
• you’ll ask for Marshall and we will trade him
• you’ll bin off a number of players to match a deal for a player you don’t want to keep but to force us to trade.

It really makes no sense.

I haven't read every post in here. I only came in because I got notification that Forty3 posted. I haven't seen anyone claim 3x 1sts, but it wouldn't surprise me. If Tom was at any other club, supporters of that club would all be saying 3x 1sts. Personally, I think he would be a minimum of 2x 1sts. Whether that extends to a 3rd one, with something going back the other way, who knows?

Again, you're going with the lie that I said we'll ask for Marshall and you'll trade him. You're either being deliberately obtuse, or you actually still don't comprehend what was said, despite having it explained 2-3 times now.
I said the Saints would consider it. They'd be completely negligent if they didn't.

As for the clearing of space, who knows how that would look, but list managers and clubs talk to their players and agents all the time.
It doesn't have to be about binning the player. The player could literally have a contract that is agreed to and even signed, but not lodged with the AFL yet.
The club can simply say, "Here's your deal. We want you, you can sign it, but we aren't lodging it with the AFL yet, because we need that money to look like it's available under the cap to match the offer and force a trade. Once the trade is finished with Tom, we will lodge the contracts with the AFL."

Seems you may also lack some critical thinking skills.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Yes no doubt the system works that way, only we would not be forced to trade for him we could just let Carlton keep him.

No player manager would agree to getting involved in that deal if that was the case lmao, nor would TDK.

 

[Dogflogger]

Buddy went for pick 19 or something stupid from memory.

There should be something on top of band 1 for deals like this or GAJ, Buddy etc. Not to say Tommy is in their bracket as a player at all, but 1 compo pick isn't gonna do SFA for us compared to keeping him.

Didn't seem to hurt Geelong or the Hawks futures, perhaps linking compensation based on ladder position is working?

 

[THE_GUN]

Its easy for us Footy supporters to say yeah we will just move contracts and facilitate a match to make sure there is a trade rather than just the compo but its easily said than done.

You would need to ask why other clubs dont do this and the man reason is they just cant and the contracts they already have in place wont allow them to be adjusted and then there is the risk that the club just doesnt trade for the player and moves on. To date i believe only Cameron has been matched and from what i remember it was not a massive deal that made him the most expensive player in the league.

I remember when Franklin went to sydney and Hawks were asked why they didnt match and just accepted the compo and they said something along the lines of we just could not match it and their hands were tied and had no choice accepting the compo which was #17 from what i remember.

TDK is in a great position as he either gets
$1.5 mil range offer from the blues and stays
$1.7 mil and moves to St Kilda
$1.7 mil blues match and if a trade cant be done ( And im of the opinion SOS would be the exact person that would say well we are not trading for him and TDK enjoy the pay rise at the club you wanted to stay at.

 

[Dogflogger]

No player manager would agree to getting involved in that deal if that was the case lmao, nor would TDK.

So you think now that we offered 1.7M we are basically forced to take him even if Carlton match and demand 3 first round picks?

 

[projectv]

Its easy for us Footy supporters to say yeah we will just move contracts and facilitate a match to make sure there is a trade rather than just the compo but its easily said than done.

You would need to ask why other clubs dont do this and the man reason is they just cant and the contracts they already have in place wont allow them to be adjusted and then there is the risk that the club just doesnt trade for the player and moves on. To date i believe only Cameron has been matched and from what i remember it was not a massive deal that made him the most expensive player in the league.

I remember when Franklin went to sydney and Hawks were asked why they didnt match and just accepted the compo and they said something along the lines of we just could not match it and their hands were tied and had no choice accepting the compo which was #17 from what i remember.

TDK is in a great position as he either gets
$1.5 mil range offer from the blues and stays
$1.7 mil and moves to St Kilda
$1.7 mil blues match and if a trade cant be done ( And im of the opinion SOS would be the exact person that would say well we are not trading for him and TDK enjoy the pay rise at the club you wanted to stay at.

It's amusing that Carlton fans think they're just going call our bluff and we're going to just hand over three first round picks. Absolutely delusional.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So you think now that we offered 1.7M we are basically forced to take him even if Carlton match and demand 3 first round picks?

If we match a trade and you're offering the biggest contract in AFL history? You're damn right we're taking you to the cleaners for it.

Same thing happened with Geelong and Jeremy Cameron.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

i"m not arguing against Carlton matching and keeping him. Just seems crazy that we would pay 1.7m and trade away a good player or high draft picks. the premium you pay for free agents is to counteract not losing players or picks. we are a shit team when it comes to FA's we often pay crazy premiums but this seems a bit too much even for the saints.

Absolutely. This is the problem with restricted free agency as a concept.
The AFL's compo simply rarely matches the value of the player leaving. Especially at the top end, which is further compounded if the team picks up a free agent of their own. Any other year, you can chase free agents to your heart's content, with no penalty. Do it in a year that you lose one and get compo, and you're screwed.
Teams will all slowly start matching RFA bids when they know that compo isn't matching the player's worth. Which means teams will end up forking out $$$ and picks for the top notch players, making RFA less attractive.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

It's amusing that Carlton fans think they're just going call our bluff and we're going to just hand over three first round picks. Absolutely delusional.

It's amusing that Saints fans think they can entice a player across with the biggest contract in league history, have him agree (if he does), then just turn around and go 'nah, we're good' when they don't want to trade.

 

[projectv]

It's amusing that Saints fans think they can entice a player across with the biggest contract in league history, have him agree (if he does), then just turn around and go 'nah, we're good' when they don't want to trade.

St Kilda are under zero obligation to go through with a trade if it looks like he's going to stay at Carlton.

It'll just be "lol player snubs Saints again" and we'll move onto the next player we probably won't be able to get as a free agent.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[bird_man]

Isn't that why clubs will heavily front load an offer, like what we did with Martin?
GC might have been happy to keep Martin at circa $600k per, but couldn't match our heavily front loaded deal of around $1m for years 1&2?

This is way off the mark mate.

Martin wasn't a free agent, a trade just didn't get done. Martin put a price on his head for the PSD.

 

[projectv]

Don't worry though Carlton will find 2mil a year behind a couch cushion and we'll be forced to cough up 4 first rounders!

 

[stavro#4]

Absolutely. This is the problem with restricted free agency as a concept.
The AFL's compo simply rarely matches the value of the player leaving. Especially at the top end, which is further compounded if the team picks up a free agent of their own. Any other year, you can chase free agents to your heart's content, with no penalty. Do it in a year that you lose one and get compo, and you're screwed.
Teams will all slowly start matching RFA bids when they know that compo isn't matching the player's worth. Which means teams will end up forking out $$$ and picks for the top notch players, making RFA less attractive.

It's amusing that Saints fans think they can entice a player across with the biggest contract in league history, have him agree (if he does), then just turn around and go 'nah, we're good' when they don't want to trade.

The size of the contract is completely irrelevant to the value Carlton supporters believe he should get.

If we pay TDK 3m a season you aren’t then deserving of say 4 FRDP.

It will always be the bands as they are for compo and it will only ever be one pick. The part all you Carlton supporters in this thread can’t acknowledge is that IN HIS IDEAL WORLD HE WANTS TO STAY AT CARLTON.

if you believe you can clear cap room for the sake of matching - why wouldn’t the player just stay where he ideally wants to be?

Why would he agree to help you get further value - when the appeal is the free agency of the player to us. Ie we won’t lose anything.

 

[stavro#4]

Don't worry though Carlton will find 2mil a year behind a couch cushion and we'll be forced to cough up 4 first rounders!

It’s a truly bizarre opinion considering free agency has been occurring for as long as it has at this point.

Clearing out a stack of best 23 players to find cap space to “match” and demand assets for a player who wants to stay a blue ideally.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The size of the contract is completely irrelevant to the value Carlton supporters believe he should get.

If we pay TDK 3m a season you aren’t then deserving of say 4 FRDP.

It will always be the bands as they are for compo and it will only ever be one pick. The part all you Carlton supporters in this thread can’t acknowledge is that IN HIS IDEAL WORLD HE WANTS TO STAY AT CARLTON.

if you believe you can clear cap room for the sake of matching - why wouldn’t the player just stay where he ideally wants to be?

Why would he agree to help you get further value - when the appeal is the free agency of the player to us. Ie we won’t lose anything.

Shuffling cash around to match an offer to prevent him walking for one compo pick is not the same as being able to actually afford him over that period.

This exact same scenario played out at GWS. Everyone knew they didn't have the cash to pay him long term with half a dozen massive contracts already signed long term. They shuffled around cash to match the offer and went to the trade table.

 

[projectv]

Shuffling cash around to match an offer to prevent him walking for one compo pick is not the same as being able to actually afford him over that period.

This exact same scenario played out at GWS. Everyone knew they didn't have the cash to pay him long term with half a dozen massive contracts already signed long term. They shuffled around cash to match the offer and went to the trade table.

Would you be happy as a Carlton supporter if your club "shuffled around cash" to match the bid and then he ends up staying with you? Even knowing that he's squeezed an extra half a million a year that you didn't need to be paying him?

It seems like a huge risk.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Would you be happy as a Carlton supporter if your club "shuffled around cash" to keep TDK and then he stays with you? Even knowing that he's squeezed an extra half a million a year that you didn't need to be paying him?

You're thinking all this in the mindset that TDK would knowingly screw over the team he's played for and supported all his life? He loves the club why in God's name would he agree to completely fek us

If the Saints are all bark and no bite and won't pony up if we matched a trade he'd probably just say to hell with them I'll take the 1.1 mil at the Blues and stay.

 

[projectv]

You're thinking all this in the mindset that TDK would knowingly screw over the team he's played for and supported all his life? He loves the club why in God's name would he agree to completely fek us

If the Saints are all bark and no bite and won't pony up if we matched a trade he'd probably just say to hell with them I'll take the 1.1 mil at the Blues and stay.

If he didn't want to screw over Carlton why hasn't he just signed a new contract already?

You didn't answer my question by the way.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If he didn't want to screw over Carlton why hasn't he just signed a new contract already?

You didn't answer my question by the way.

Idk mate, why do you think? Braindead discussion

 

[Philhawk]

Do Carlton fans think they can match, then not pay him the same amount?

There’s no world where St Kilda are obligated to follow through on the trade if Carlton match the $1.7m p/y.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Do Carlton fans think they can match, then not pay him the same amount?

There’s no world where St Kilda are obligated to follow through on the trade if Carlton match the $1.7m p/y.

How is there not an obligation? The Saints would torn to shreds by the AFLPA and Player Managers mafia. They'd be lucky to make a trade for a player of Francis Evans caliber if they pulled a stunt like that.

They've courted him for a year, offered him the biggest contract in league history and then they refuse to stump up a trade if Carlton matched the offer? They'd be blacklisted by every manager going around for years afterwards.

 

[Philhawk]

How is there not an obligation? The Saints would torn to shreds by the AFLPA and Player Managers mafia. They'd be lucky to make a trade for Francis Evans if they courted him for a year and then refused to stump up a trade if Carlton matched the offer.

They really wouldn’t.

If the ask is 3 first rounders, they’d be idiots to even consider.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

They really wouldn’t.

If the ask is 3 first rounders, they’d be idiots to even consider.

They'll know all those details before any paperwork gets submitted. If they know Carlton are going to match they'd know they're going to have to pony up or back down if they believe the price to be too steep.