The war against renewable energy

[SaintsSeptember]

The savings from his electric car is paying 90% of his lease… is this too much for you to understand?

OK this is your maths

I have to lease an electric car, it costs me $1000 per week. ( made up number ).
If i had a V8 Ram and had to put petrol in it and service it , it would cost me $2000 per week.
So i'm saving $1000. Yay my car is free. Why does money keep vanishing from my Bank Account?

 

[nut]

OK this is your maths

I have to lease an electric car, it costs me $1000 per week. ( made up number ).
If i had a V8 Ram and had to put petrol in it and service it , it would cost me $2000 per week.
So i'm saving $1000. Yay my car is free. Why does money keep vanishing from my Bank Account?

Ram costs 100% more … .

 

[Power Raid]

1. Myth … new 500 kw Tesla super chargers being built now to catch up to battery tech. 8 year warranty on most batteries . Life4 batteries 4000+ Cycles… Nimc batteries have not problem 10%- 80% fast charging.

2. More BS….

You really need to catch up on the technology.

you keep referring to warranties which are not worth the paper they are written on

Just take solar for example. People bang on about 10, 12, 20 and even 25 year warranties and then claim this must mean they can last this long.

Then when you actually read the fine print, solar warranties have a 10MW (or higher) installation threshold. Meaning you have no warranty. So does this mean the solar panel lasts 0 years by the same rationale?


Marketing does not always equal engineering. Similar to the same argument that politics does not always equal engineering.

Perhaps slow down and think for yourself.


but yes avoiding the bookends of battery usage will avoid the high risk of heat = damage. but in doing so just removes 30% of battery potential over the number of cycles.

control systems to achieve optimisation is something you seem to ignore in your costings which need "optimising" themselves over the life of batteries. This is why BESS are great in certain applications but illogical for home applications when a community based approach makes more sense.......especially if you are using a car to do this.

 

[Power Raid]

People need to catch up with technology.
Batteries aren’t what they used to be…

you keep saying this but I didn't see you at CATL's facility or supplying them


A plug to CATL.......there are not many battery manufacturers who actually produce their own cells. CATL is at least double that of their nearest competitor being BYD.

 

[nut]

you keep saying this but I didn't see you at CATL's facility or supplying them


A plug to CATL.......there are not many battery manufacturers who actually produce their own cells. CATL is at least double that of their nearest competitor being BYD.

So you must be familiar with a battery that’s good for 1.5 million kilometres??? I think 8 year warranties are well with in that range and using 5-10kw a few times a week isn’t going to degrade a battery too much.

CATL launches ultra-high-energy-density EV bus battery that lasts nearly 1 million miles

CATL launched its newest battery, the Tianxing Bus version, opening a new era for buses. With “the highest energy density...

electrek.co

 

[nut]

Tesla replaces a battery if it degraded by 70% after 8 years… but they know 99% of the time they won’t have to.

 

[Power Raid]

Tesla replaces a battery if it degraded by 70% after 8 years… but they know 99% of the time they won’t have to.

yep

It is no surprise a battery to be used for a car delivers an outcome suited to a car.

What I question is whether a whole car should be amortised for an application such as home energy storage. Given the full cost of a BESS is $0.24 to $0.40 a kwh, add to that the amortisation of a car it probably isn't the white knight we are looking for.

and yes I agree, batteries are getting better but to lower costs and meet to global demand at the same time will be a challenge (due to availability of metals and the energy costs to convert them). How many times over do you think we will add to current CO2 levels to achieve this? Again another reason why I feel alternatives will ultimately take market share away from batteries.

 

[nut]

yep

It is no surprise a battery to be used for a car delivers an outcome suited to a car.

What I question is whether a whole car should be amortised for an application such as home energy storage. Given the full cost of a BESS is $0.24 to $0.40 a kwh, add to that the amortisation of a car it probably isn't the white knight we are looking for.

and yes I agree, batteries are getting better but to lower costs and meet to global demand at the same time will be a challenge (due to availability of metals and the energy costs to convert them). How many times over do you think we will add to current CO2 levels to achieve this? Again another reason why I feel alternatives will ultimately take market share away from batteries.

What CO2? when we get to a stage where we use renewables in every step of the process.

My home BESS cost me 21c a KWH .. with 4000 cycles… which it should do a lot more than that.

 

[QuietB]

What CO2? when we get to a stage where we use renewables in every step of the process.

My home BESS cost me 21c a KWH .. with 4000 cycles… which it should do a lot more than that.

It is hilarious that renewables are apparently not a viable option (now - ie. not forever) because you need to add the emissions of fossil fuels.

But the alternative is to use all fossil fuels.

 

[nut]

It is no surprise a battery to be used for a car delivers an outcome suited to a car.

And V2G …. Every EV car maker is incorporating V2G … you can shut yours eyes and block your ears all you want … but V2G will be one of the biggest drivers for the adoption of EVs and will do equally as much to stabilise the grid during the 1-2 hours of peak usage during the late afternoon/evening than any large scale battery or Hydro.

 

[nut]

It is hilarious that renewables are apparently not a viable option (now - ie. not forever) because you need to add the emissions of fossil fuels.

But the alternative is to use all fossil fuels.

I know… it’s like how can petrol cars be any good when Henry Ford rode a horse to work.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ram costs 100% more … .

Wow if i plan to buy a Lamboghini, then change my mind and get an MG4, i'll save so much i will be able to feed a small African nation.

 

[nut]

Wow if i plan to buy a Lamboghini, then change my mind and get an MG4, i'll save so much i will be able to feed a small African nation.

equivalent cost ICE car $1000 a month repayments and $8000 a year in fuel costs and $600 in servicing. $21600….

EV… $1000 a month - $1100 back in charging costs from solar… = $10,900

$21600- 10,900…. $10,700 savings… so the savings are 90% of his repayments.

Not a hard concept.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

When you lease it includes servicing and fuel.

MG ZST Core - Salary Packaging Australia

salpacaus.com.au

MG4 Excite EV - Salary Packaging Australia

salpacaus.com.au

In this case the MG4 is a bit cheaper. Probably due to running costs .

But not free.

 

[peetoo]

And V2G …. Every EV car maker is incorporating V2G … you can shut yours eyes and block your ears all you want … but V2G will be one of the biggest drivers for the adoption of EVs and will do equally as much to stabilise the grid during the 1-2 hours of peak usage during the late afternoon/evening than any large scale battery or Hydro.

It might work for those who like to know they have a car in the driveway to use, but are nowhere near the daily usage to make an EV worthwhile financially.

But you have to temper your enthusiasm that there’ll be majority taking it up

Owning or renting house/apartment, having driveway not shared car park where there may be a charging ban, amount of usage and time of day etc etc all limiting factors

 

[peetoo]

When you lease it includes servicing and fuel.

MG ZST Core - Salary Packaging Australia

salpacaus.com.au

MG4 Excite EV - Salary Packaging Australia

salpacaus.com.au

In this case the MG4 is a bit cheaper. Probably due to running costs .

But not free.

Can commercial charging be added into package?

 

[nut]

It might work for those who like to know they have a car in the driveway to use, but are nowhere near the daily usage to make an EV worthwhile financially.

But you have to temper your enthusiasm that there’ll be majority taking it up

Owning or renting house/apartment, having driveway not shared car park where there may be a charging ban, amount of usage and time of day etc etc all limiting factors

4 million homes have solar… but yes it’s not going to work for everyone.

Usually your car is home when you are…
We are talking about “peak” usage times.
Peak times is when we need max power….
1 million EVs have the potential to absorb most of this peak period… between 5pm to 7pm, thus reducing the need for Gas to crank up, which is creating the current high wholesale rates, and instead flooding the grid with renewables instead, which reduces the cost of power during this time…. So everyone benefits.

250,000 homes now have batteries… if they are a VPP they also can feed the grid at this time.

The point is, for every home battery and Ev feeding the grid at peak time, about another 4 houses are getting power from each one.
People who talk about scale dont understand the impact they are having.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

4 million homes have solar… but yes it’s not going to work for everyone.

Usually your car is home when you are…
We are talking about “peak” usage times.
Peak times is when we need max power….
1 million EVs have the potential to absorb most of this peak period… between 5pm to 7pm, thus reducing the need for Gas to crank up, which is creating the current high wholesale rates, and instead flooding the grid with renewables instead, which reduces the cost of power during this time…. So everyone benefits.

250,000 homes now have batteries… if they are a VPP they also can feed the grid at this time.

The point is, for every home battery and Ev feeding the grid at peak time, about another 4 houses are getting power from each one.
People who talk about scale dont understand the impact they are having.

Unless you have been sitting home charging your car, you need to recharge it to drive it to work the next day, so you might be helping the price, but not the environment.

If there was enough electricity storage in the grid to charge all your peak time cars, then there would be enough electric storage to get through the peak time.

So yeah it makes sense if you buy are car and don't use it as a car.

If Home batteries were at the same reasonable price as those in cars, then we wouldn't need to have this discussion.
Absolutely no reason for home batteries to sell at 5 times the cost of car batteries.

 

[nut]

Unless you have been sitting home charging your car, you need to recharge it to drive it to work the next day, so you might be helping the price, but not the environment.

If there was enough electricity storage in the grid to charge all your peak time cars, then there would be enough electric storage to get through the peak time.

So yeah it makes sense if you buy are car and don't use it as a car.

If Home batteries were at the same reasonable price as those in cars, then we wouldn't need to have this discussion.
Absolutely no reason for home batteries to sell at 5 times the cost of car batteries.

A car battery is typically 50-60kw…
We are talking about a period of about 2 hours where usage is at peak… maybe Max of about 5kwh per household average.
This is when storage is needed the most. So about 10% of a car battery… and it’s not every night.
Below is the predicted wholesale price tonight during peak…
It’s been predicting a spike every night lately… when the time comes it’ll disappear because the market will absorb power from somewhere!!! Most likely Batteries or gas… end result prices fall.
These spikes will disappear completely when storage can cover it. Home batteries and EVs will play apart.
It’s been overcast all day and yet my battery is full. I’m ready to dispatch my battery. If the high prices remain I’ll make $200 or more. But the more people dispatching the lower the price.
Cars can charge at work or at home during the day…