The war against renewable energy

[SaintsSeptember]

Its a pity the price of home batteries seems to fly in the face of the reducing cost of Lithium Batteries. Their prices seem the same as they ever were.
We are told that commercial grid sized batteries are getting cheaper and EV's are getting cheaper.

I suspect they are being sold under a similar business marketing plan as Washing Machines and Refrigerators, and home owners are being gouged very nicely for their home battery.

So people using their car as a home battery reflects the price gouging in the home system.
The true scenario should be that you can get a "big" home battery for $5000, and use your car for driving.

Residential batteries are five times more expensive than electric car batteries

Residential battery storage systems cost five times those for electric vehicles. Why is that?

reneweconomy.com.au

 

[peetoo]

Its a pity the price of home batteries seems to fly in the face of the reducing cost of Lithium Batteries. Their prices seem the same as they ever were.
We are told that commercial grid sized batteries are getting cheaper and EV's are getting cheaper.

I suspect they are being sold under a similar business marketing plan as Washing Machines and Refrigerators, and home owners are being gouged very nicely for their home battery.

So people using their car as a home battery reflects the price gouging in the home system.
The true scenario should be that you can get a "big" home battery for $5000, and use your car for driving.

Residential batteries are five times more expensive than electric car batteries

Residential battery storage systems cost five times those for electric vehicles. Why is that?

reneweconomy.com.au

Smartphones

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The battery is limited warranty being 2 years

This is an example of the warranties vs reality gap meaning warranties can’t be used as a guide for performance

That's the 12V Battery.

Why Do Electric Cars Have a 12v Battery? - VinFast Global Community

We examine the systems that comprise an EV and the role that the 12-volt battery plays.

community.vinfastauto.us

I think its like a regular lead/acid battery.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Smartphones

Why buy a state of the art gaming computer, when instead you could buy a microprocessor with a little touchscreen and a phone chip.

 

[nut]

Again your limited critical thinking leads you down the wrong path

A reasonable person would appreciate this is a failing identify this as a reason why not every thing is as good as it seems.

For me PFAS is a reason why batteries and electrolysis won’t succeed long term in their current form. They need to improve or face regulation hurdles.

Mind you although PFAS is banned or being banned with 2 years, the PFAS lobby groups dressed up as renewables will do everything they can to preserve their industry

How much cobalt does a lifepo4 battery have? Zero …

 

[nut]

Please confirm you believe commercial scale battery installations should line up entire fleets of cars to use their batteries rather than just use a battery?

The answer to this highlights the absurdity

FFS… are you deliberately being stupid?
If someone was going to spend $12,000 on a new home battery they could be better off putting that money into an EV and using the car to power their home…

 

[nut]

The battery is limited warranty being 2 years

This is an example of the warranties vs reality gap meaning warranties can’t be used as a guide for performance

Huh? Did you read the warranty….

Name an EV brand in Australia that doesn’t have atleast an 8 year warranty on the CAR BATTERY PACK…. Not the starter Battery

 

[swingdog]

FFS… are you deliberately being stupid?
If someone was going to spend $12,000 on a new home battery they could be better off putting that money into an EV and using the car to power their home…

nut, your life will be much better is you put Power Raid on ignore. He's got a long time beef against renewables. I think a solar panel touched him inappropriately when he was a child. It gets boring.

 

[Power Raid]

That's the 12V Battery.

Why Do Electric Cars Have a 12v Battery? - VinFast Global Community

We examine the systems that comprise an EV and the role that the 12-volt battery plays.

community.vinfastauto.us

I think its like a regular lead/acid battery.

good pick up

 

[Power Raid]

nut, your life will be much better is you put Power Raid on ignore. He's got a long time beef against renewables. I think a solar panel touched him inappropriately when he was a child. It gets boring.

I'm in the renewable industry making materials for solar, batteries, semiconductors and hydrogen

I think your confusing reservations between promotion vs reality, the need to continue to improve and to not discard solutions that have delivered vs technologies with promise

 

[Power Raid]

FFS… are you deliberately being stupid?
If someone was going to spend $12,000 on a new home battery they could be better off putting that money into an EV and using the car to power their home…

it may make sense when NIO come with the 2 minute click in click out battery

 

[nut]

it may make sense when NIO come with the 2 minute click in click out battery.

Seriously …. You need to check out fast chargers … have you been in a coma for 4 years?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Huh? Did you read the warranty….

Name an EV brand in Australia that doesn’t have atleast an 8 year warranty on the CAR BATTERY PACK…. Not the starter Battery

its not a starter battery on an EV, more an accessory battery. Seems like its main purpose is to keep things powered when the car isn't running. ( ie radio pre-sets, security system, etc ).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Seriously …. You need to check out fast chargers … have you been in a coma for 4 years?

Not relevant.

 

[peetoo]

its not a starter battery on an EV, more an accessory battery. Seems like its main purpose is to keep things powered when the car isn't running. ( ie radio pre-sets, security system, etc ).

Yep most of that stuff is off the shelf shared with ICE vehicles

 

[SaintsSeptember]

nut, your life will be much better is you put Power Raid on ignore. He's got a long time beef against renewables. I think a solar panel touched him inappropriately when he was a child. It gets boring.

Its more realistic than negative.
There are people who are dead set against renewables just because.....you know, V8s and stuff.
Then there are people who will embrace anything anyone at all says on the internet that's green.
Then there's reality.

IMO Nut's idea about charging the grid from cars isn't a long term thing, however it may be an anomaly for a while because those selling home batteries are profit gouging.
At the moment a battery with a car wrapped around it doesn't cost much more than a battery.

$10 000 for 10 kwh....piss off you pirates.

Its a commercial thing, not a logical or technical thing.

 

[nut]

its not a starter battery on an EV, more an accessory battery. Seems like its main purpose is to keep things powered when the car isn't running. ( ie radio pre-sets, security system, etc ).

With out it you can start it , so people still call it the starter battery.

 

[nut]

Not relevant.

What isn’t relevant?
If someone seriously thinks click out click in batteries are going to a mainstream thing then wow.

 

[nut]

IMO Nut's idea about charging the grid from cars isn't a long term thing,

Vehicle to grid will be one of the biggest reason why people will invest in an EV… it definitely will be long term thing. It will allow a lot of people to go completely off grid.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What isn’t relevant?
If someone seriously thinks click out click in batteries are going to a mainstream thing then wow.

one is home battery's the other is EV charging.

They aren't related to each other.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Vehicle to grid will be one of the biggest reason why people will invest in an EV… it definitely will be long term thing. It will allow a lot of people to go com%

If you could get a 50kwh battery in your home for $10 000, capturing all the daytime solar surplus while your car is driving around or parked in a carpark while you are at work, it makes far more sense to have a home battery.

The EV to grid thing makes sense while we are getting gouged for home batteries.

For most people you'd need that big battery to charge your car at night ( better than coal from the grid ).

 

[peetoo]

If you could get a 50kwh battery in your home for $10 000, capturing all the daytime solar surplus while your car is driving around or parked in a carpark while you are at work, it makes far more sense to have a home battery.

The EV to grid thing makes sense while we are getting gouged for home batteries.

For most people you'd need that big battery to charge your car at night ( better than coal from the grid ).

Unless you can recharge at work cheaply (firms should be able to get cheap energy if they are agile )

 

[nut]

If you could get a 50kwh battery in your home for $10 000, capturing all the daytime solar surplus while your car is driving around or parked in a carpark while you are at work, it makes far more sense to have a home battery.

The EV to grid thing makes sense while we are getting gouged for home batteries.

For most people you'd need that big battery to charge your car at night ( better than coal from the grid ).

I’d love a 50kw home battery for 10k. If the prices continue to fall and they hit that price then it would be the death of the grid. The 3.5 million homes with solar could simply go off grid.
It just shows how financially viable solar and batteries are.

keeping people connected to the grid is extremely important, so grid usage prices need to fall.

In my case if I add an EV to my home battery I could easily go completely off grid. But having the ability to export and get money back plus help stabilise the grid keeps me connected.

 

[nut]

Unless you can recharge at work cheaply (firms should be able to get cheap energy if they are agile )

Yep and EVs are extremely important in the transition to cheap renewables.
Charge cheap during the day… take it home and use this power at night when it’s reliant on fossil fuels and expensive , rinse repeat.
Transferring solar to storage is the key.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Unless you can recharge at work cheaply (firms should be able to get cheap energy if they are agile )

If you work in the city and aren't top management , you're probably in a commercial carpark.
Putting in 5 charge points at a small accounting firm is different to a large company installing 500 in a workers carpark.
Could get pretty expensive on a cloudy day i'd imagine.

Business owners can be jerks. Where i work the landlord pretty much refuses to let "us" install Solar.
We can pay a solar farm and cut out the middle man for the supply, but it doesn't help much since the network charges are still there.
Its a manufacturing business, and we are only on an extended day shift, so a 100kw array would provide half our annual electricity. ( varying between most of our electricity on a sunny day in summer, to practically nothing on a overcast rainy day ).
Batteries at the current inflated price are terrible though. 10 kwh at $10 000 to extend our solar time by 10 minutes is pretty hard to get past the bean counters.