The Association Football AFL Thread 4.0

[Art Vandelay_]

I think what we've seen from their first signs of life in 2022 thru to now is that as time goes on it becomes clearer Carlton have a deeply flawed list build.

Rely on midfield and ruck dominance, rely on two forwards and have overpaid cap space and draft capital for halfbacks and intercept defenders. Wing and small forward would be worst in league.

Voss probably deserves as much credit for getting them as far as he did as he does the blame for letting Kennedy and Owies leave. The former if played right would help attain mid dominance, while the latter was better than half the small forwards that have remained.

 

[SM]

And like arseholes and BigFooty stalkers, we all have one.

Erm, ok.

 

[SM]

I think what we've seen from their first signs of life in 2022 thru to now is that as time goes on it becomes clearer Carlton have a deeply flawed list build.

Rely on midfield and ruck dominance, rely on two forwards and have overpaid cap space and draft capital for halfbacks and intercept defenders. Wing and small forward would be worst in league.

Voss probably deserves as much credit for getting them as far as he did as he does the blame for letting Kennedy and Owies leave. The former if played right would help attain mid dominance, while the latter was better than half the small forwards that have remained.

Sensible read on it. I'd tend to agree their list set up is quite strange. The clear improvement under Voss from Teague and the others showed what a good coach could get out of them, but the fact premierships are so tough to win demonstrates how you need everything going right to get there, and their group just doesn't have the right balance.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Sensible read on it. I'd tend to agree their list set up is quite strange. The clear improvement under Voss from Teague and the others showed what a good coach could get out of them, but the fact premierships are so tough to win demonstrates how you need everything going right to get there, and their group just doesn't have the right balance.

They are so damn hard to win. You can be the best team all year and not win it merely because things go awry at the worst time. 2013 still haunts badly.

Small margins make big differences at the top.
I think I follow a decent team but a lot of our recent exits from the team (Tuohy, Smith, Duncan, Hawkins) were elite field kicks, and their replacements while not shit kicks, aren't elite.

The premiers on Sat Night won because they had more class, polish and as the game dried out much better foot skills.

If you're a club that makes a large spike upwards due to a clear game plan advantage you have on the rest of the comp you need to strike while the iron is hot. 12-18 months later and that gameplan is analysed into submission.

 

[gaskin]

Carlton's success under Voss come has always down to Curnow and McKay fit and firing, IMO. Outside of those two and Cripps they have no other real weapons.

 

[SM]

Carlton's success under Voss come has always down to Curnow and McKay fit and firing, IMO. Outside of those two and Cripps they have no other real weapons.

If they have no weapons outside three players isn't that a credit to the coach to get them so far? Hardly a star studded list.

 

[Magma]

carlton and melbourne have such dramatic drop offs from their best to their worst.

 

[RPCB]

Yep, it’s a deeply flawed list. Small forward and KPD is a problem and has been neglected for years. The midfield is one paced. Big decision to make on TDK but even that presents it’s own problems. Extending him means likely trading one of Harry or Walsh but that would mean we’ve just overpaid a ruckman and weakened the forwards or midfield. And letting TDK walk means we have let one of our most important players currently walk.

At the end of the year when McGovern is finally gone and the end of next year when Williams and Saad are both OOC, is when our salary cap can finally start breathing.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Extending him means likely trading one of Harry or Walsh but that would mean we’ve just overpaid a ruckman and weakened the forwards or midfield.

Need to focus on getting a couple of small forwards. Hawks did it last season when they traded for Ginnivan and drafted Watson. Not saying it’s easy to do but surprised there wasn’t more focus on getting one in off season.

 

[Jatz]

I think what we've seen from their first signs of life in 2022 thru to now is that as time goes on it becomes clearer Carlton have a deeply flawed list build.

Rely on midfield and ruck dominance, rely on two forwards and have overpaid cap space and draft capital for halfbacks and intercept defenders. Wing and small forward would be worst in league.

Voss probably deserves as much credit for getting them as far as he did as he does the blame for letting Kennedy and Owies leave. The former if played right would help attain mid dominance, while the latter was better than half the small forwards that have remained.

That's been the thing really. Vossy is quite inept as a coach but he's not solely responsible for this shitshow we now find ourselves in. Nick Austin, Brad Lloyd, come on down.

 

[SM]

That's been the thing really. Vossy is quite inept as a coach but he's not solely responsible for this shitshow we now find ourselves in. Nick Austin, Brad Lloyd, come on down.

So who's responsible for the prelim final?

 

[Jatz]

Building a list for contested footy while the rest of the competition got faster was always going to be one of our biggest issues.

Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy (when he was here), Walsh (post back injury - he should've been quicker), Cerra etc. I mean, if that's not the slowed midfield group in the league, I'd be staggered.

I've lost count over the last 3 years how often I've seen someone like Nick Daicos just run away from them like they were in quicksand.

 

[Jatz]

So who's responsible for the prelim final?

Camp Curnow. That's incredibly well documented.

You keep trying to defend him, no one that watches us is buying it. He is not a tactical coach, he is a man manager. Unfortunately for him, our assistant coaches aren't much better.

 

[SM]

Camp Curnow. That's incredibly well documented.

You keep trying to defend him, no one that watches us is buying it. He is not a tactical coach, he is a man manager. Unfortunately for him, our assistant coaches aren't much better.

So what happened under teague and why did it suddenly improve under Voss? If you think one player turns you from bottom 8 to top 4 I don't really know what to say.

I know you don't like him and that's OK but at least be a bit rational.

 

[Mr Meow]

So what happened under teague and why did it suddenly improve under Voss? If you think one player turns you from bottom 8 to top 4 I don't really know what to say.

I know you don't like him and that's OK but at least be a bit rational.

Almost all neutrals and Carlton supporters fail to rate Voss highly as a coach, so it seems like you may be one of the only rational people on this forum.

He's like a Temu Brad Scott, who took a less talented NM side to 2 prelims (same issue of never actually finishing top 4 in H&A though). Hinkley cops it a lot but has at least taken Port to multiple top 2 finishes and a couple of really close prelims - decided by a kick.

Teague being terrible doesn't mean Voss is good. Maybe to take the next step with this squad they need another upgrade.

 

[Jatz]

So what happened under teague and why did it suddenly improve under Voss? If you think one player turns you from bottom 8 to top 4 I don't really know what to say.

I know you don't like him and that's OK but at least be a bit rational.

One player? What are you talking about ffs You don't really know what to say because you have no idea what I mentioned.

Camp Curnow was a players only camp they went on that season. That was when the sharp turn in form appeared. Had very little to do with coaching.

Charlie Curnow Reveals The Players-Only Camp That Changed The Blues' Season

Charlie Curnow Reveals The Players-Only Camp That Changed The Blues' Season

articles.listnr.com

I am very rational on Voss. Have a look at any single one of the million footy shows that are on now, they're all playing the same beat. Our game style is not one conducive to winning a lot of games.

 

[SM]

Almost all neutrals and Carlton supporters fail to rate Voss highly as a coach, so it seems like you may be one of the only rational people on this forum.

He's like a Temu Brad Scott, who took a less talented NM side to 2 prelims (same issue of never actually finishing top 4 in H&A though). Hinkley cops it a lot but has at least taken Port to multiple top 2 finishes and a couple of really close prelims - decided by a kick.

Teague being terrible doesn't mean Voss is good. Maybe to take the next step with this squad they need another upgrade.

They probably do need an upgrade, and I don't think I've ever suggested otherwise. It's weird you say that I'm one out on this when on this very page Gero and I were agreeing with what we saw as the issues with their list.

 

[SM]

One player? What are you talking about ffs You don't really know what to say because you have no idea what I mentioned.

Camp Curnow was a players only camp they went on that season. That was when the sharp turn in form appeared. Had very little to do with coaching.

Charlie Curnow Reveals The Players-Only Camp That Changed The Blues' Season

Charlie Curnow Reveals The Players-Only Camp That Changed The Blues' Season

articles.listnr.com

I am very rational on Voss. Have a look at any single one of the million footy shows that are on now, they're all playing the same beat. Our game style is not one conducive to winning a lot of games.

I have no idea when this camp took place but very impressive that it was responsible for your 2022 improvement, your 2023 preliminary final appearance, and your form up to Round 20 last year that had you 2nd on the table. How many camps did he take the players on?

 

[Jatz]

I have no idea when this camp took place but very impressive that it was responsible for your 2022 improvement, your 2023 preliminary final appearance, and your form up to Round 20 last year that had you 2nd on the table. How many camps did he take the players on?

Could've just stopped there mate.

 

[SM]

Could've just stopped there mate.

Says the guy who thinks McKay is a competent player because he won a Coleman in a mini season.

I watch a fair few footy shows so you might need to point out which of them are saying Voss should be sacked as I must have missed those ones.

 

[Mr Meow]

They probably do need an upgrade, and I don't think I've ever suggested otherwise. It's weird you say that I'm one out on this when on this very page Gero and I were agreeing with what we saw as the issues with their list.

Voss isn't removed from the current make up of their list, nor the level that various B and C graders have been developed to during his time there. Or the gameplan, or consistency across seasons.

No need to play the victim, I can quote Gero as well if this caters to your sensitivities. I don't think Jatz has at all been irrational or in the minority for his views on Voss though - so that seemed like a suitable place to pass comment.

 

[SM]

Voss isn't removed from the current make up of their list, nor the level that various B and C graders have been developed to during his time there. Or the gameplan, or consistency across seasons.

No need to play the victim, I can quote Gero as well if this caters to your sensitivities. I don't think Jatz has at all been irrational or in the minority for his views on Voss though - so that seemed like a suitable place to pass comment.

Where did I play the victim? I literally just responded to your post.

 

[Mr Meow]

Where did I play the victim? I literally just responded to your post.

"I don't know why you're picking on me, somebody else just agreed with a point I made!".

Now actually respond to the on topic points I made - leave the "why are you criticising MY post" stuff out of it.

You could start by showing where I said you were "one out". I said Jatz was hardly in the minority.

 

[SM]

"I don't know why you're picking on me, somebody else just agreed with a point I made!".

Now actually respond to the on topic points I made - leave the "why are you criticising MY post" stuff out of it.

You could start by showing where I said you were "one out". I said Jatz was hardly in the minority.

Did I say that? Weird I can't see that in my post. You said I was one of the only people on this site holding the opinion, I pointed out someone on this very page who was agreeing with me. You'll see my first sentence also responds to the on topic point you made.

This wouldn't be another example of you jumping in and telling me how to post while whining that I police your posts would it? Deary me.

 

[RPCB]

My reactions to these very true posts about our list, after rebuilding for 8 years and it looks like we are ready for our next rebuild.