Opinion Sack Hinkley 9 - I Am Become Donuts, Destroyer Of Ports

[Papa G]

it's almost like maybe your dickhead views are outdated and not accepted in society anymore?

But, but you said you had me on ignore.

 

[tribey]

You can't argue that we didn't have the talent when we were 3 points away from a GF in 2014. That's a coin flip prelim against the eventual premiers. It's a laughable argument.

Especially given the present reality of the time period.

Cam O’Shea had just come off a superb game in defence against Freo in Perth, and was universally considered to be a key component of our quicksilver run and gun. The dogma of ‘draft pick/development’ hindsight has a red line through him as a complete spud.

Matthew Lobbe was a combative ruckman who rocketed to the top of our depth chart with 761 hit outs (#4 in AFL), 157 tackles (#4 in AFL) and 6 goals (Sandilands 8, Goldstein 10, Jacobs 7) in 2014. A season that earned him that infamous contract and equally infamous trade offer from the Scray. One of the most effective rucks in the comp for that season, downgraded to just another complete potato that our tinpot scouting regime blew it on, apparently.

And on and on…

 

[simba_]

what the hell is a Matilda anyway

 

[JimmyBC]

what the hell is a Matilda anyway

Soccer bird

 

[El_Scorcho]

Especially given the present reality of the time period.

Cam O’Shea had just come off a superb game in defence against Freo in Perth, and was universally considered to be a key component of our quicksilver run and gun. The dogma of ‘draft pick/development’ hindsight has a red line through him as a complete spud.

Matthew Lobbe was a combative ruckman who rocketed to the top of our depth chart with 761 hit outs (#4 in AFL), 157 tackles (#4 in AFL) and 6 goals (Sandilands 8, Goldstein 10, Jacobs 7) in 2014. A season that earned him that infamous contract and equally infamous trade offer from the Scray. One of the most effective rucks in the comp for that season, downgraded to just another complete potato that our tinpot scouting regime blew it on, apparently.

And on and on…

Jasper Pittard who is derided as part of the failed 2009 draft made an All-Australian squad of 40 in 2016, and ultimately spent a lot of his career bravely being made to look silly by Ken Hinkley's gameplan where he'd break lines and look up and have a 1 on 3 to kick to. He was an excellent defender and a good kick and provided us with excellent run off of half back.

 

[Papa G]

what the hell is a Matilda anyway

A bundle of possessions carried by an itinerant worker.

 

[pstew2dstew]

I guess the question is would you swap our 2023 squad (not "individuals") but squad as a whole with any of the squads in prior years during Hinkley's tenure?

This is assuming of course the player they are today vs prior.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Lol. Got given a week off for posting on the main board, calling the Matilda's what 90% of the team factually identify as. Main board is hopeless. It's like it's moderated by Bravey's internet They/Them friendship group. Never give the meek and weak any form of power.

Soccer players?

(assuming Emily Van Egmond is the 10% that doesn't identify as that)

 

[EskimoPAFC]

what the hell is a Matilda anyway

Not sure but I think you can find them if you go camping at a billabong

 

[sobrave]

Jasper Pittard who is derided as part of the failed 2009 draft made an All-Australian squad of 40 in 2016, and ultimately spent a lot of his career bravely being made to look silly by Ken Hinkley's gameplan where he'd break lines and look up and have a 1 on 3 to kick to. He was an excellent defender and a good kick and provided us with excellent run off of half back.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say "excellent defender" but...

I remember watching so many horrible games where we'd be absolutely unable to move the ball at all, and pittard was literally the only one trying to break a line. Yeah it didn't always work, but at least he was trying something.

 

[tribey]

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say "excellent defender" but...

I remember watching so many horrible games where we'd be absolutely unable to move the ball at all, and pittard was literally the only one trying to break a line. Yeah it didn't always work, but at least he was trying something.

The altiverse where Jasper is one of Hawthorn’s left footer battalion while we make do with Billy Hartung or Matt Spangher would be interesting.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I guess the question is would you swap our 2023 squad (not "individuals") but squad as a whole with any of the squads in prior years during Hinkley's tenure?

This is assuming of course the player they are today vs prior.

I don't actually think this matters. We arguably have the best squad we've had under Hinkley now because of the midfield, but that argument could also be made for 2014-17 and 2021. We're at our strongest now in the midfield and at KPF. We've definitely been stronger in defence, ruck and small forward over the journey. We're probably stronger as a rebounding side but that's due to a change in philosophy (putting our best kicks there), not better personnel.

Every squad we've had from 2014 onwards had enough talent to win a flag.

 

[pstew2dstew]

I don't actually think this matters. We arguably have the best squad we've had under Hinkley now because of the midfield, but that argument could also be made for 2014-17 and 2021. We're at our strongest now in the midfield and at KPF. We've definitely been stronger in defence, ruck and small forward over the journey. We're probably stronger as a rebounding side but that's due to a change in philosophy (putting our best kicks there), not better personnel.

Every squad we've had from 2014 onwards had enough talent to win a flag.

But would you swap the 2023 squad out for any squad prior?
2014-17 or 2021 as you suggested?

 

[tribey]

I don't actually think this matters. We arguably have the best squad we've had under Hinkley now because of the midfield, but that argument could also be made for 2014-17 and 2021. We're at our strongest now in the midfield and at KPF. We've definitely been stronger in defence, ruck and small forward over the journey. We're probably stronger as a rebounding side but that's due to a change in philosophy (putting our best kicks there), not better personnel.

Every squad we've had from 2014 onwards had enough talent to win a flag.

2018, on paper at least, was arguably the best of the lot.

A squad coming off a 5th-placed MR finish, adding Rockliff, Motlop and Watts to the mix.

And not only do we contrive to miss the eight from an 11-4 start, the club decides to begin their strategy of openly gaslighting the fans by pivoting shamelessly into the “OMG KEN IS SACRIFICING HIS CAREER FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB!” garbage, despite having a salary cap bursting with ‘win now or never’ guys.

 

[pstew2dstew]

View attachment 1784225

2018, on paper at least, was arguably the best of the lot.

A squad coming off a 5th-placed MR finish, adding Rockliff, Motlop and Watts to the mix.

And not only do we contrive to miss the eight from an 11-4 start, the club decides to begin their strategy of openly gaslighting the fans by pivoting shamelessly into the “OMG KEN IS SACRIFICING HIS CAREER FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB!” garbage, despite having a salary cap bursting with ‘win now or never’ guys.

So you would take that list over 2023?

 

[tribey]

So you would take that list over 2023?

As a list, purely talentwise? Absolutely.

How they were coached under The Grand Donut? Nope. We saw how that went.

 

[pstew2dstew]

As a list, purely talentwise? Absolutely.

How they were coached under The Grand Donut? Nope. We saw how that went.

Wow, I didn't think anyone would say that.

But fair enough.

 

[Capital Power]

what the hell is a Matilda anyway

Raptalia would be familiar with this bloke. Nickname, quite obviously, was "waltzing".

 

[El_Scorcho]

Wow, I didn't think anyone would say that.

But fair enough.

Saying the 2023 list is clearcut better is just recency bias, specifically, the excitement generated by 3 young midfielders.

After a similar Janus post recently we did a little exercise where we made a best 22 of the 2023 squad and the 2014 squad and I had 13 2014 players in my 22 to 9 2023 players.

The 2023 list has an excellent midfield but holes everywhere else. We've got a very good key forward line on paper but they aren't effective and can't stay on the park consistently. That said, we're in an excellent position to win a flag. Every single flag winning list has holes and it's a very even year without dominant teams.

 

[simba_]

A bundle of possessions carried by an itinerant worker.

were you spying on me today...?!

 

[pstew2dstew]

Saying the 2023 list is clearcut better is just recency bias, specifically, the excitement generated by 3 young midfielders.

After a similar Janus post recently we did a little exercise where we made a best 22 of the 2023 squad and the 2014 squad and I had 13 2014 players in my 22 to 9 2023 players.

The 2023 list has an excellent midfield but holes everywhere else. We've got a very good key forward line on paper but they aren't effective and can't stay on the park consistently. That said, we're in an excellent position to win a flag. Every single flag winning list has holes and it's a very even year without dominant teams.

I don't know about that, even without the mids..

'18 DBJ,Jasper, Clurey, Jonas, Howard over '23 Houston Farrel Burton Burgs Aliir?

The decision making and disposal is not even close imo

 

[El_Scorcho]

I don't know about that, even without the mids..

'18 DBJ,Jasper, Clurey, Jonas, Howard over '23 Houston Farrel Burton Burgs Aliir?

The decision making and disposal is not even close imo

Yes but you actually have to stop the opposition from scoring as well. We were a top 4 defence on points conceded in 2018 despite missing the 8. We're the 12th best defence in 2023.

Houston was also still in the side in 2018. The 2018 versions of Jonas and DBJ were much better than the 2023 versions.

 

[simba_]

i would rather watch the 07 Granny than muse over which failed Ken team was slightly better than which

 

[pstew2dstew]

Yes but you actually have to stop the opposition from scoring as well. We were a top 4 defence on points conceded in 2018 despite missing the 8. We're the 12th best defence in 2023.

Houston was also still in the side in 2018. The 2018 versions of Jonas and DBJ were much better than the 2023 versions.

I forgot to add Williams...too

I will agree defensively 1v1 especially that 18' back 6 is probably stronger but as an overall package I'm taking 23' backs all day everyday

 

[bomberclifford]

Lol. Got given a week off for posting on the main board, calling the Matilda's what 90% of the team factually identify as. Main board is hopeless. It's like it's moderated by Bravey's internet They/Them friendship group. Never give the meek and weak any form of power.

Are you the Carpet Muncher guy?