Preview Round 13 2024 AFL Season: St.Kilda Saints v Gold Coast Suns, Saturday 8th of June 7:30pm, Marvel Stadium

[pebblesofsand]

Not to pile on Bonner…. Even though I don’t rate him as more than depth….

On those stats he’s had 18 scores against from turnovers, second most on the list. Not great I’d think,

They tend to be without much pressure as well it seems, not like hack kicks out of the contest.

I also don’t rate his defence….
I’d like to see Paton get some games in the same role, but it probably means Sincs spends less time with the mids.

Only problem with those figures is that he is second highest possession getter on that list behind Sheezel, but 5th in points conceded.

That suggests his turnover rate is not that bad (certainly way better than Acres).

 

[tomjoad]

Both take the high risk kicks out of defensive 50. Everyone hates Bonner but he's playing a role. He's averaging 23.5 touches a game. That the same as Josh Daicos, Oliver, Rowell etc. 10th in the league in meters gained, same range as Naicos and Noah Anderson. 30 in rebound 50s, 77.32 disposal efficiency - Nas is on 78.33.

People are straight up looking for what he does wrong now. Nas, Hill, Battle all had turn over kicks against WC that put pressure back on the defence. Our rebound off HB is probably the only part of our game that has worked well this season.

He had one really bad game and the rest he's been a massive win for a player taken as a preseason top up. Wouldn't be surprised if he goes top 10 in the B&F and maybe even around 5th or 6th.

I don't know what it is about him, but for some reason, when Bonner stuffs it up...it just seems more glaring. Hill used to suffer from the same thing when he first came to us, & is still prone to turning it over a good bit...but his good now far outweighs the bad, so it doesn't appear as obvious.
It's funny how we choose to perceive things.
The fact is that the players look to get the ball into Bonner's hands a good bit. He's obviously doing what is asked, and the players - even though they're instructed to do it - trust him to execute.
I wouldn't have thought his disposal efficiency is as as good as you say...but there you go...perception...it can be a tricky bastard.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

With Ro looking banged up and a cautious approach required with King, I'd like to see these changes.

Out: Marshall (managed), King (inj), Ross, Bonner, Membrey, Butler
In: Campbell, Heath, Crouch, Schoenmaker, Sharman, Garcia

B: Wilkie, Howard, Webster
HB: NWM, Battle, Sinclair
C: Wood, Steele, Hill
HF: Higgins, Sharman, Henry
F: Owens, Caminiti, Wilson

Foll: Campbell, Dow, Windhager
Int: Crouch, Schoenmaker, Clark, Heath, Garcia (sub)


I know It'll probably just be King for Crouch

 

[Yawkey way]

If Witts gets up it’s not a bad idea. Marshall had an ordinary game and could probably use a breather.

Witts is a monster I’m not sure this would be a good week to debut Heath.

 

[Cairnsman]

With Ro looking banged up and a cautious approach required with King, I'd like to see these changes.

Out: Marshall (managed), King (inj), Ross, Bonner, Membrey, Butler
In: Campbell, Heath, Crouch, Schoenmaker, Sharman, Garcia

B: Wilkie, Howard, Webster
HB: NWM, Battle, Sinclair
C: Wood, Steele, Hill
HF: Higgins, Sharman, Henry
F: Owens, Caminiti, Wilson

Foll: Campbell, Dow, Windhager
Int: Crouch, Schoenmaker, Clark, Heath, Garcia (sub)


I know It'll probably just be King for Crouch

Supporters contradict themselves if they want Sharman to replace Bonner.

Sharman is without doubt a VFL player and not capable at AFL level.

Why all of this negative focus on Bonner but then calls for a VFL grade player to be selected. It's time to move past Sharman as he won't improve us as he's been gifted 40 odd games to prove himself and just hasn't even come close.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't know what it is about him, but for some reason, when Bonner stuffs it up...it just seems more glaring. Hill used to suffer from the same thing when he first came to us, & is still prone to turning it over a good bit...but his good now far outweighs the bad, so it doesn't appear as obvious.
It's funny how we choose to perceive things.
The fact is that the players look to get the ball into Bonner's hands a good bit. He's obviously doing what is asked, and the players - even though they're instructed to do it - trust him to execute.
I wouldn't have thought his disposal efficiency is as as good as you say...but there you go...perception...it can be a tricky bastard.

He was quite popular early on and then had one game where he had a record amount of turnovers in one game. Then ever since he's been good but once you have it in your head you only see their mistakes. Nas had a game earlier in the year where he seemed to not be able to hit a target but we all think he's an elite user so put it down to a bad day or a bad passage.

Bonner also has had a couple of really obvious turn overs that stood out. I'd say over all he's been one of the success stories of the year. A guy that was grabbed as a list spot filler in case of emergency has been set in the best 22 all year and in the only part of the ground that has stood up.

He's held his spot over guys like Stocker and Paton so he's obviously doing something right.

I'd think that running wave off HB are going to be even better with a solid midfield shielding them. Hill has had a great year overall as well. You'd think if Nas, Bonner and Hill can get more connection and a bit of midfield protection that could be an absolute rebound weapon next year. Especially if they can get Sinclair back in their ranks as well. It would be the best rebound back set up in the league.

 

[gringo2011]

Witts is a monster I’m not sure this would be a good week to debut Heath.

He'll smash Rowan, I'd bring in Campbell but not sure if he's injured.

 

[DougalHoward]

Supporters contradict themselves if they want Sharman to replace Bonner.

Sharman is without doubt a VFL player and not capable at AFL level.

Why all of this negative focus on Bonner but then calls for a VFL grade player to be selected. It's time to move past Sharman as he won't improve us as he's been gifted 40 odd games to prove himself and just hasn't even come close.

Sharman would be replacing Membrey.

 

[SteeleSaints]

GC have lost to WB, Lions, Car, Syd away. So don't take too much out of this away business, and we'll need to play well to win.

The media are already highlighting the GCS away record, so we can expect them to want to make statement. The media love kicking clubs just before they play the Saints because they have absolutely no respect for our club. And if we are honest we dont deserve it this season....we have a long way to go to win back any respect from the broader AFL community.

Stemming the influence of GCS midfield is going to be our biggest battle - Anderson, Rowell, Touk and Flanders are all top grade players. Our midfielders are going to have to play very well to match them. I would send Windhager to Anderson I think he is more damaging than Rowell. Having Crouch back will help with winning first use but also further expose our lack of speed on the outside. The one positive with the match ups is that Harwick generally doesnt tag, so Steele and Sinclair should be able to move more freely.

Our next problem will be their tall forwards Ben King is good on a lead, something that Howard is generally really poor at reading. Wilkie will most likely take Lukocisious and Battle the next tall. Webster will handle Ben Long but hoping they dont lock heads too much.

 

[Cairnsman]

Sharman would be replacing Membrey.

Don't think so, why would you replace an AFL player with a VFL player, Members was massive in the 4th quarter.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Watch the last quarter again, Caminiti was brilliant, he hunted the ball, he attended ruck contests strongly, he was involved in the really impressive chains and score assists and just his aggression, putting body on players and shoving players on the ground, he really welcomes the physicality and contest, exactly what our forward line needs, it makes a midfield work better when they have confidence on the forward line, it's takes the hesitation away on decision making for midfielders when trying to get the ball into the F50

Seriously WTF??

So because Caminiti bumped some opposition players around and shoved them to the ground and contested a few ruck contests strongly in forward line in thr kast quarter our mids and half backs all of sudden magically got better?

It's like saying ..... we changed the bumper on the front of the car .... now the engine and car sound system work better

BTW was Caminiti doing this in the first 3 quarters or only in the last quarter after King went off?

How many goals did Caminiti kick in the last quarter as our key forward? Or was it because he was too busy watching Wood take a rare speccy or get a downfield free kick or Membrey take a courageous mark with the flight?

I like Hammer's intention ... I like his competitiveness .... but having only one key forward isn't gunna cut it in this day and age .... King has goals on the board .... 154 of them ..... Hammer not so much

 

[DarkSaint]

If we have any integrity in selections, then Seb Ross needs to he dropped.

Over the last month he has been one of our worse players. I've been watching him closely and he barely get the ball more than half a dozen times in the first half and then pads the stat's when the game is already over to make it look respectable.

Last week to get 6 touches with 84% TOG is embarrassing.

Outs:
Ross (omitted)
King (if injured)

Ins:
Crouch
Sherman

If Crouch isn't ready, I really like the look of Hastie and think we have a real gem

 

[DougalHoward]

Don't think so, why would you replace an AFL player with a VFL player, Members was massive in the 4th quarter.

Membrey isn't AFL standard anymore. Sharman is still young and can improve and has shown potential.

 

[Teflon]

I don't think as much as people have made out. He had a few critical errors that stood out but that's probably because they are asking him to try to hit those long corridor kicks that when they come off look great but if you **** them up they punish the other way. Collingwood use it too, that same corridor kick. When it goes wrong it goes very wrong, when it goes right it's opened up play ahead of the ball because the zones can't set up.

I'd rather keep going brave because in today's footy you can't dick around bringing the ball up. We'll also look under way less pressure once we have a functional forward line. The defence has had to withstand a constant barrage this season.

Not sure that’s right
I’ve seen Bonner miss King under no pressure on weekend by 15 metres
I’ve seen him middle of the ground no immediate pressure…dribble ball along the ground to a defender…
He’s hit n miss his turn overs tell u that
I am also convinced Brad Hill under any sort of pressure is a poor kick ..
Under no pressure?? Different player altogether
I trust Nas more
Sincs most

 

[SG34]

My impression is that Membrey tried but was not a force at all. He was lucky to take that mark in the last, as a St Kilda player clearly pushed the WC defender back and was not pinged. Membrey was courageous for sure, marking the ball side on with momentum and in the air. He goaled, which is great. I think Sharman brings more to the team at AFL level now, maybe not much and line ball. That all said, Members was picked and Sharman wasn't and for momentum I think they'll keep it like that. Either of them could play and kick four or be almost invisible and be subbed.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Some damning Bonner stats from BrunswichSainter on SS -

Sublime skill? His Disposal Efficiency (77.3%) is in the bottom 25% of the league for this season despite having the highest proportion of uncontested possessions 84.8% of anyone in the league (to play over 3 games this year). He's second overall in the AFL for uncontested turnovers and 1st of turnovers resulting in direct scoring opportunities (8 - which is 3 more than the next bloke). You could almost make the argument that he's objectively the worst kick in the league this season.

This would all be forgivable if he backed it up with defence (e.g. Dawson's career kicking/disposal efficiency was poor, but his rating in regards to pressure acts, 1v1, defensive acts was superb), this is not the case with Bonner, his season averages for basically every defensive measure is well below position average and consistently the lowest of anyone in our defence (i.e. he does not defend). His Champion Data player ranking score (which is the industry's preeminent measure of a player's performance) this season is only 217.6 (340th overall) despite playing every game. Finally him being in the side has also damaged Sinclair's output and role. Sinclair is far more damaging with the ball and plays his best footy off half back (not the midfield as some media types who never watch the saints will declare). There for Bonner's impact on the team is two fold.

He is having an historically bad season, we would quite literally be 2 wins better off if we left him delisted. But sure he executed a few nice field kicks in the second half so should keep his spot...

 

[SaintKing23]

Supporters contradict themselves if they want Sharman to replace Bonner.

Sharman is without doubt a VFL player and not capable at AFL level.

Why all of this negative focus on Bonner but then calls for a VFL grade player to be selected. It's time to move past Sharman as he won't improve us as he's been gifted 40 odd games to prove himself and just hasn't even come close.

Strongly disagree. When he is played in his natural position (FF), he does well. He's a clean grab and reliable( mostly) kick. When we throw him wherever, he doesn't do well. King is better as CHF (on the lead he dominates and he kicks better from long range. (like cloke)

 

[The Punter]

Can't you all read? He said that without doubt Sharman is not VFL standard! He's decided that for all of you.

I mean, Jesus, one key forward left fit on the list outside the AFL side and when a key forward goes down we should replace him with ... a ruckman. Also, he kicked 3 goals out of 8 for the VFL side last week including the last 2 to ensure a 1 point win. Maybe we should replace King with Butler or Collard. Christ on a bike.

Everything positive said on here about Caminiti I agree with. But he's a consistent, competitive other key forward at this stage (26 games, 29 goals, 20 games with at least 1 goal, 0 games with at least 3 goals).

 

[SaintersUnite]

Can’t rely on Hammer to be our number 1 forward until he learns how to kick a set shot that isn’t 10m out directly in front.

Never have any faith in him to kick the goal.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[gringo2011]

Some damning Bonner stats from BrunswichSainter on SS -

Sublime skill? His Disposal Efficiency (77.3%) is in the bottom 25% of the league for this season despite having the highest proportion of uncontested possessions 84.8% of anyone in the league (to play over 3 games this year). He's second overall in the AFL for uncontested turnovers and 1st of turnovers resulting in direct scoring opportunities (8 - which is 3 more than the next bloke). You could almost make the argument that he's objectively the worst kick in the league this season.

This would all be forgivable if he backed it up with defence (e.g. Dawson's career kicking/disposal efficiency was poor, but his rating in regards to pressure acts, 1v1, defensive acts was superb), this is not the case with Bonner, his season averages for basically every defensive measure is well below position average and consistently the lowest of anyone in our defence (i.e. he does not defend). His Champion Data player ranking score (which is the industry's preeminent measure of a player's performance) this season is only 217.6 (340th overall) despite playing every game. Finally him being in the side has also damaged Sinclair's output and role. Sinclair is far more damaging with the ball and plays his best footy off half back (not the midfield as some media types who never watch the saints will declare). There for Bonner's impact on the team is two fold.

He is having an historically bad season, we would quite literally be 2 wins better off if we left him delisted. But sure he executed a few nice field kicks in the second half so should keep his spot...

This guy obviously isn't a statistician. 77.3% is not bottom 25% of the league. Nas is on 78.33%. Bonner is 168 out of 800 players and that list includes guys that have played one or two games that skew the data, most of the best efficiency counts are guys with less that 4 games. The Saints around his level are Nas, Battle etc. His kicks are often on the move and through the corridor. He's an attacking back, not a one on one defender. Not sure why that's controversial.

Outside non contested players get marked right down on those lists. That's why guys like Hill are never in the top rungs of those rating despite playing good footy.Sinclair was injured then out of form when he returned. Not sure how Bonner made him shit for a while.

He's nowhere near the worst kick in the side let alone the league. Making up your own theories and backing it with data that doesn't prove your point just makes you look like a moron.

 

[Cairnsman]

Seriously WTF??

So because Caminiti bumped some opposition players around and shoved them to the ground and contested a few ruck contests strongly in forward line in thr kast quarter our mids and half backs all of sudden magically got better?

It's like saying ..... we changed the bumper on the front of the car .... now the engine and car sound system work better

BTW was Caminiti doing this in the first 3 quarters or only in the last quarter after King went off?

How many goals did Caminiti kick in the last quarter as our key forward? Or was it because he was too busy watching Wood take a rare speccy or get a downfield free kick or Membrey take a courageous mark with the flight?

I like Hammer's intention ... I like his competitiveness .... but having only one key forward isn't gunna cut it in this day and age .... King has goals on the board .... 154 of them ..... Hammer not so much

Tony Lockett had goals on the board too, how many flags did we win with big Plugger?

Also the Hawks seem to be playing really well up forward, can you identify their key forwards?

 

[Hubnester]

Would love to see Heath get a run, but also don't want to see him debut against a seasoned ruckman on his own.

If King doesn't get up Sharman must come in after a match winning performance. If King is fit, I'm not sure about the calls to drop Membrey for Sharman at this stage, that's the logical progression in time but I think Membrey still has a lot to offer. Let's hope the way he finished the last game is how he starts the next one.

 

[Cairnsman]

Strongly disagree. When he is played in his natural position (FF), he does well. He's a clean grab and reliable( mostly) kick. When we throw him wherever, he doesn't do well. King is better as CHF (on the lead he dominates and he kicks better from long range. (like cloke)

No argument he is a good mark and kick, but that’s his only trick and why it only works well on a more consistent basis at VFL level, you need to be much more than a good mark and kick in the modern AFL game.

 

[BrutThough]

Membrey isn't AFL standard anymore. Sharman is still young and can improve and has shown potential.

Sharman is 23 turning 24 in about a month, so he cant hold onto the 'young' tag for much longer.

 

[beside the seaside]

Sharman is 23 turning 24 in about a month, so he cant hold onto the 'young' tag for much longer.

He has lost a lot of confidence this year. His goal kicking which was usually excellent has fallen away. I still reckon he can be a decent third tall but this season so far has been a total waste after a promising end to last year.