Finknottle
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I must have missed your MC comment. We seem to have differing views of the MC.
Preview Rd 24 Geelong v West Coast Sat Aug 23 2024 145pm @ GMHBA
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I don't like the look of Jezza that could be bad news.
Finknottle
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Given A and given B then it must imply C. There is a correlation between A and B. But there may or may not be any relationship with C.
We can only be sure of the obvious mistakes of the MC, like the absurdity of picking Duncan as the substitute last weekend and continuing to elevate players who are not even standing out at VFL level. We can also see MC selections/elevations that have worked out. e.g. Mannagh (after an extended wait) and Humphries. I think the MC has been a mixed bag this year.
No worries, happy to help. Here's the post:
1. Any credit to the MC for actually integrating 3 players (Dempsey, Mannagh, Humphries) to the team in 2024 who are now high performers? Or is using that as a stick to beat them over the head with a more clever line of logic?
2. Look at the 2020 Geelong grand final team. 2021: 4 new players in the best 22 (Cameron, Close, Zuthrie, Smith). 2022: 3 new players in the best 23 (SDK, Stengle, Holmes). 2023: 3 new players in the best 23 (Bruhn, O.Henry, Bowes). 2024: 4 new players in the best 23 (Demspey, Mannagh, Humphries, Neale).
2025? If their bodies and form lines hold up, you'd think Smith (if it happens), Clark, Conway and Mullin will be permanent fixtures. Guys like COS (maybe still a year away), Willis and Clohesy are wild cards.
The MC doesn't have its head in the sand. They're trying to remain competitive while turning over about 4 players a year (from retiring/declining veterans) with players of a range of different age/experience levels.
So what are you complaining about besides referring to your typical Hardie rants? That the MC should be turning over 6-7 players a year, even if VFL form by most candidates isn't knocking down the door at all? In years we have been top 4, premiers, missing finals (shocking injury year) and top 4?
The above list of names who have made it into the best 23 give an indication the MC's track record is decent. So the exaggerated "I am the sole arbiter of truth, shining the light on all of you evangelical MC devotees" act really is a bit much.
Agree/disagree? Feel free to contest anything I've said in a civil way.
Depending on where you draw the line on what constitutes a 'medium' forward, you could probably even get rid of the age reference. There aren't that many good medium forwards of any age. It's a pretty hard position to truly excel at.
So, OHenry is going fine. That said, it would be nice if he could add a few more strings to his bow, but like you say he is still young.
Given the absurd way the entire team played after half-time last weekend, I don't think the decision around the sub materially affected the game's outcome at all. If we'd been going half decently at the time he entered the game, Duncan's poise and skilled disposal could have been quite advantageous as the oncoming player. As it was, the game was a mess, with our line-up getting embarrassed right across the ground.
As for the criticism regarding not elevating the right players (or not elevating them at the right time), it's simply not possible to know. Mannagh's game at VFL level appeared to clearly change in the weeks leading up to his reintroduction to the seniors, indicating that he was involved in a dialogue with the M.C. about how to best bed down a place for himself in the senior team. And holding back Humphries as they did (given he was a first-year player coming from a long way back in terms of elite development) is hardly an isolated story when you look at player management across the competition.
In the end, the numbers speak for themselves. At a club where we have precious few players banging the door down, we've produced some of the weakest stats in terms of overall team performance that you could ever imagine from a club that is still pushing for a top four H&A finish. So I just can't conceive how that points to even a middling contribution from the M.C. this season. They certainly haven't got it all right. But across the course of the whole year, the scales are tipped significantly in their favour in my view.
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Hope you are right and I'm completely off the mark.
You might expect it but it is not always easy to perform in the VFL where teammates are not on the same level. I felt he stood out, as did Mannagh and Humphries in the VFL, and eventually they were selected.
I would struggle these days to fit Bews into our side given a full list and the game plan that seems to exclude pure old style stopper/half backs but I feel bad for the guy. Often written off by many on this board
He has consistently done what’s been asked of him, and OOBOFs notwithstanding, has often been the guy who has broken up some dangerous opposition attacks with nous and gritty old style 1 percenters. I know he is not the future but I feel strangely comfortable when he is in the team. Cats often have guys like that in the team. Josh Hunt was another who never seemed to have a big backing but had a solid body of work ( and a solid body!)
He has consistently done what’s been asked of him, and OOBOFs notwithstanding, has often been the guy who has broken up some dangerous opposition attacks with nous and gritty old style 1 percenters. I know he is not the future but I feel strangely comfortable when he is in the team. Cats often have guys like that in the team. Josh Hunt was another who never seemed to have a big backing but had a solid body of work ( and a solid body!)
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You are, he’s obviously cracking up
I agree. Bews has for years done exactly what the coaches asked of him, as has Kolo. Probably to the detriment of their own individual performances if measured by statistics only.
And, in keeping with your view of it all, Jed's been selected for this game as well. Still, with SDK back for our next game after this one, I'd see the #24 as the omission from the defensive group that we'll take into our first final.
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Kobe Gryant
'07, '09, '11, '22
1:45 games are so weird.
If you have a big night you could wake up halfway through the first quarter. Saves the wait and anticipation I suppose.
That's my contribution.
If you have a big night you could wake up halfway through the first quarter. Saves the wait and anticipation I suppose.
That's my contribution.
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But its also good because then when we win you can go have a great night on the piss!!!
Absolutely. The sooner they get back, the sooner they can start recovery in preparation for their Mad Monday.
Zouz Kitty
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Missed Kitty*?
*Said no one ever
Missed Kitty*?
*Said no one ever
Finknottle
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Point 1 - Agree to some extent but we had so many problems during our mid-year losing streak that the MC's hand was forced. They had to try something different. Pundits had been wondering why it took the MC so long to give these players a real opportunity.
Point 2 - Agree with these year on year comparisons and that player turnover has been consistent. So that is a positive for the MC.
Re Hardie, I think the MC has missed an opportunity to see how the standout midfielder playing in the VFL team, even in the entire VFL, could perform at AFL level. It's too late for Hardie to be promoted now. If he were promoted and played well it would be embarrassing for the MC.
The Bews selection this week does not improve my opinion of the MC. The MC should not be a protected species.
Thanks for responding in good faith.
On point 1 I agree the trigger could've been pulled a bit earlier. It'll always be a guessing game as to whether extra time in the VFL and in training to work on things was required before they could be integrated. What if they rushed them and their form was poor? Who's to say which method was better for getting them to where they are now. This is where "MC can do no wrong" and "MC is clearly doing something wrong" are equally silly standpoints.
On point 2 I'm glad you can see my point of view now on a broader level. If you think things could've been improved it's better to offer suggestions for how you would've done it differently each year. E.g "In 2020 I think player X should also have been given an extra 10 games. In 2021 I think player Y should've been sent back to the VFL permanently" and go from there to decide how your proposed changes would've improved our current best 23. Outside of Hardie being in the team I'm not sure how much would've actually ended up new/improved. Our VFL form this year has largely improved from having more AFL listed players and way less injuries. It's not because there are another 5 players that should've forced Duncan, Tuohy, Atkins and Henry (either) out.
For your final point I think individual complaints are fine. It's when you extrapolate it out to some giant spray against the MC and its track record that it can become extreme. And it can become an endless stream of sarcasm and mockery rather than just stating which player from the VFL you'd like to see replace which player in the 1's. As I'd be more interested in those thoughts than generic MC drive bys and complaints about those on here who "say they can do no wrong".
I understand that some people here don't like that this is the case. But the harsh reality is that our M.C.'s view of Hardie's prospects of playing solid AFL footy are almost undoubtedly about to be franked by 17 other clubs at the end of this season.
MC seems like a relic of a bygone era, surely CS has total control over who plays in his team.
Zach Guthrie is going to worry a lot of list managers well onto the future.
In these days of instant gratification, he illustrates how a player can be like a good wine and mature into greatness.
But along the way there will be duds.
How to figure out which is which?
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