Review R4: The Good, Bad and the Umpiring vs. Gold Coast Suns

[ABAB]

As did Lloyd and Nathan Brown.

Lewis has had too many hits to the head.

They said the free was 50/50, not it wasn't a free.

 

[1970crow]

well we lost the game so we might have

What do you think is more important ? Winning the game or winning the midfield ?

Maybe we could have squeezed more minutes out of Dawson behind the ball in key moments or Rankine ahead of the ball in others

We don’t know , so I wouldn’t be so sure about extrapolating that ‘crouch didn’t play so therefore because we won midfield battle , so that’s it he shouldn’t play ‘

And also no need to be so condescending , we can talk about it without being like that thanks

Winning the midfield is a precursor to winning the game. Very rarely do you lose one and win the other. The simple reality is that our midfield beat a highly credentialed clearance midfield away for the first time this year. Now, the only support for Crouch has been that he's a clearance beast and we'd be lost in there without him. And now that's proven incorrect, you're making up other intangible garbage as to why he's needed. And that's why I'm condescending, yoyre manufacturing rubbish to maintain what's nothing more than an ill-advised belief.

Here's a simple one, answering yes or no, did our stoppage performance stack up yesterday?

And a follow up, did you think we'd win clearances against the Suns without Crouch?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

No, we're not. He's a stat padding plodder that seems to reduce our clearance output. 2/3s of his possessions are uncontested, he's nowhere near the beast idiots like you believe him to be. Rankine's contested numbers have been superior all year. Crouch is 10th for contested possession ratio at our club and 63rd league wide for mids and mid forwards. That's 4th on average for mids in each 22. Seriously, he's not the 'contested beast' you idiots believe him to be and nor does he spread or do much of value.

It is funny though, he's now in the side for his, "winning and demanding mentality". We've had a few reasons for selection apologies, non-statistical, running patterns, keeping shape, experience, leadership, continuity, selection integrity, like for like (when it suits). There may be more, but "winning and demanding mentality" is a new and exciting excuse for hamstringing our best 23. Well done, it's an inventive excuse, you should consider calling the club, you might replace Adam Kelly after he's arseholed this year.

Being so condescending doesn’t suit you

No need to call someone ‘an idiot’ just because you have a different take

Also consider your view probably sits outside the square a little bit so there must be ALOT of idiots that follow and work in football according to you

So far you have NT Rabbit on same page , not exactly a guy with a great track record ( but I’d never call him an idiot )

As season evolves there is a chance that Matt crouch gets squeezed out , and definitely in years to come . I’m just not quite sure we are there yet , I prefer a deeper midfield that then gives us flexibility re some of our dual position match winners eg Dawson and Rankine

Certainly open to us having games where Matt is rested or sub and don’t have as black and white opinion of it as you do

Certainly wouldn’t call you or anyone else an idiot for thinking differently about it

More me next week I’m dropping Murphy for M crouch and Draper is spending more time forward as we need that speed up there without Rachele

It’s a long year , we need a deep midfield
especially off a 5 day break

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Winning the midfield is a precursor to winning the game. Very rarely do you lose one and win the other. The simple reality is that our midfield beat a highly credentialed clearance midfield away for the first time this year. Now, the only support for Crouch has been that he's a clearance beast and we'd be lost in there without him. And now that's proven incorrect, you're making up other intangible garbage as to why he's needed. And that's why I'm condescending, yoyre manufacturing rubbish to maintain what's nothing more than an ill-advised belief.

Here's a simple one, answering yes or no, did our stoppage performance stack up yesterday?

And a follow up, did you think we'd win clearances against the Suns without Crouch?

Yes it did

Yes it did

I’ve been through this , we could have TT missing injured and kick 18 goals and it won’t mean TT isn’t in our best side

In the end we lost the game

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Would love it if someone could photoshop a Suns guernsey onto the Slenderman

It would look just like Mac Andrew

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Winning the midfield is a precursor to winning the game. Very rarely do you lose one and win the other. The simple reality is that our midfield beat a highly credentialed clearance midfield away for the first time this year. Now, the only support for Crouch has been that he's a clearance beast and we'd be lost in there without him. And now that's proven incorrect, you're making up other intangible garbage as to why he's needed. And that's why I'm condescending, yoyre manufacturing rubbish to maintain what's nothing more than an ill-advised belief.

Here's a simple one, answering yes or no, did our stoppage performance stack up yesterday?

And a follow up, did you think we'd win clearances against the Suns without Crouch?

I’m not manufacturing anything

I have a belief that Matt crouch is on our current best 22 , it’s hardly controversial. A large % of people in here and in football world would agree, good on you for having a contrarian opinion , I can respect that

Sometimes after a loss you can get over emotional and condescending which is exactly what’s happening now

 

[1970crow]

A shallow analysis is extrapolating that because the midfield played well and crouch didn’t play then we are better off not selecting him

And not actually realising that we lost the game so maybe that needs more ‘deeper’ thought

We lost by 1 point away to a highly likely finalist. Our 3 wins were against non-finalists, the last just lost by nearly double at home against the spluttering Swans than they did away against us. Surely you're not that much a happy clapper that you rate feasting on Saints and Roos at home as getting within a single point of the Suns away? It's a little embarrassing for you that you'd choose the entire outcome of the game to support the need for Crouch despite his work area actually performing markedly better.

To me, it was a question that I was keen to see answered. I think I got the answer yesterday, but I might be wrong. What I can't fathom, is how clueless about football someine needs to be to not even consider the question. Especially with an actual game outcome to take into consideration. As opposed to the theoretical, which until yesterday, was all it was.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We lost by 1 point away to a highly likely finalist. Our 3 wins were against non-finalists, the last just lost by nearly double at home against the spluttering Swans than they did away against us. Surely you're not that much a happy clapper that you rate feasting on Saints and Roos at home as getting within a single point of the Suns away? It's a little embarrassing for you that you'd choose the entire outcome of the game to support the need for Crouch despite his work area actually performing markedly better.

To me, it was a question that I was keen to see answered. I think I got the answer yesterday, but I might be wrong. What I can't fathom, is how clueless about football someine needs to be to not even consider the question. Especially with an actual game outcome to take into consideration. As opposed to the theoretical, which until yesterday, was all it was.

We believe in most of same stuff other than you don’t think Matt Crouch is best 22 and I do


It’s hardly a shocking revelation

Ps game outcome was we lost , I agree with all the other stuff . GC are v good and our midfield was awesome and took the points

If they were able to play at that level and replicate it every week maybe we don’t need crouch , at this stage it’s a small sample size

 

[1970crow]

Yes it did

Yes it did

I’ve been through this , we could have TT missing injured and kick 18 goals and it won’t mean TT isn’t in our best side

In the end we lost the game

Have we kicked 18 goals without TT in the last couple of seasons. And again, if your argument, which it was, is that Crouch is critical to clearances, then you now have evidence to the contrary. That you refuse to integrate that data is a weakness of yours. Had we been beaten handsomely in clearances, I would have had to start leaning towards your view. That you stick your fingers in your ears is on you, if you're not at least starting to wonder, then you have NFI about football.

 

[Geoffa32]

I know this in tin foil hat stuff, and I am not suggesting this in a serious manner.....


But, we are a big club with a large supporter base. We have had 4 or 5 of these bad decisions in the last 3 years. Most of which the AFL have apologised.


Given this is a theatre league, driven by TV and media, are these really mistakes? Or does the AFL see a benefit in creating "discussion" with this happening to a large club with lots of supporters.

No doubt a bump in traffic across AFL media because of this.......


Again, not a serious suggestion. But we can't just be that unlucky.


There has to be reason for these bad calls, which the AFL admit are bad, to happen so often to one club in the past 3 seasons.

 

[rocket18]

Sunday Footy Show said the control umpire was near the boundary and had a perfect view of the play.

Yep, Rankine looked at him after the non call.

He was directly infront of the contest on the boundary line.

Perfect position, the umpire just froze, shouldn't umpire again at this level, if he can't handle the heat of a Crows v GC crowd of 15k he ain't gonna cope with 85k+ at the G.

 

[1970crow]

We believe in most of same stuff other than you don’t think Matt Crouch is best 22 and I do


It’s hardly a shocking revelation

Ps game outcome was we lost , I agree with all the other stuff . GC are v good and our midfield was awesome and took the points

If they were able to play at that level and replicate it every week maybe we don’t need crouch , at this stage it’s a small sample size

I think Matt Crouch is best 22 if you designate a stoppage only role. I think the same of the 'Laird role' and I definitely think the same of the 'Murphy role'. Turns out the 'shape keeping defensive forward' role doesn't exist. Both Rachele and ANB actively hunt the football and that's why they're good defensively.

It's not necessarily the player, it's the role. I disagree with the 'Crouch role' and I disagree with the 'Laird role'. I thought I got my way with deleting the 'Murphy defensive shale keeping forward role'. Anyway, when we eventually win a flag, I'm very confident that there won't be a Crouch, Murphy or Laird 'role'.

And just quietly, we're starting to see intangible reasons for his selection . That's the proof.

 

[GreyCrow]

But, we are a big club with a large supporter base. We have had 4 or 5 of these bad decisions in the last 3 years. Most of which the AFL have apologised.


No doubt a bump in traffic across AFL media because of this.......

If there was a correlation with say Carlton or Collingwood I might agree

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Have we kicked 18 goals without TT in the last couple of seasons. And again, if your argument, which it was, is that Crouch is critical to clearances, then you now have evidence to the contrary. That you refuse to integrate that data is a weakness of yours. Had we been beaten handsomely in clearances, I would have had to start leaning towards your view. That you stick your fingers in your ears is on you, if you're not at least starting to wonder, then you have NFI about football.

Ok grumpy pants

Got me again , I have NFI

 

[1970crow]

Yep, Rankine looked at him after the non call.

He was directly infront of the contest on the boundary line.

Perfect position, the umpire just froze, shouldn't umpire again at this level, if he can't handle the heat of a Crows v GC crowd of 15k he ain't gonna cope with 85k+ at the G.

We know it's a free kick all day and every day. But if I was going to argue on behalf of the umpire, I'd say that from his angle he saw the contact and ball spill but didn't see that the Suns player was tackling Rankine to the ground. It's definitely a missed free but I'm not that heavy on pure incompetence, let alone bias. I wouldn't mind asking where the other umpire was, the side on view would be the best in terms of seeing the tackle. No pun, you dirty minds.

 

[GreyCrow]

1. I dont think you can point to a causality from 1 game on Crouch
2. Crouch has performed to a level which on the surface is fine
3. I do think we need to discuss Crouchs position/value in the team
4. A deeper analysis - such as Crowcast Clearance videos feenix67 - would be useful
5. Crouch is a symptom of our selection policies

 

[GreyCrow]

We know it's a free kick all day and every day. But if I was going to argue on behalf of the umpire, I'd say that from his angle he saw the contact and ball spill but didn't see that the Suns player was tackling Rankine to the ground. It's definitely a missed free but I'm not that heavy on pure incompetence, let alone bias. I wouldn't mind asking where the other umpire was, the side on view would be the best in terms of seeing the tackle. No pun, you dirty minds.

Ok but why did he miss the holding/dropped ball on the very next tackle closer to him

 

[FullyBigKPro]

**** Im angry.

Was actually over in Radelaide for a friends birthday and watching at his place.

All 4 of his neutral mates said we copped an absolute prison shower form the Umps.

How do we keep constantly copping this sh**. Its ridiculous.

I'm going back over to Adelaide on Thursday for the Gather round match. I seriously hope we come out breathing fire after being completely costed again.

 

[Crow-eater]

 

[George CantStandYa]

I’m not manufacturing anything

I have a belief that Matt crouch is on our current best 22 , it’s hardly controversial. A large % of people in here and in football world would agree, good on you for having a contrarian opinion , I can respect that

Sometimes after a loss you can get over emotional and condescending which is exactly what’s happening now

To be fair, in Crouch’s absence we won against a very strong midfield with a ruck that was getting pantsed.

Peatling took Crouch’s midfield minutes and excelled, playing his best game for the club, there’s no going back to his previous role.

Rankine dominated and his time isn’t going out.

Both these players clearly don’t need Crouch to win first possession.

Given Crouch can’t play anywhere near else, who you moving out the middle to play him? Dawson moving out to fit in Crouch isn’t a option, sure it’s good to have flexibility to move Dawson if we need to it but that’s not a starting position and not something that requires Crouch in the team for.

I like Crouch and he’s done very well since he’s come back, but his lack of spread, acceleration and inability to play another position, means he shouldn’t be a lock.

 

[ams4crows]

Crux of the issue is all 4 times we've been "robbed" we've been behind in the dying stages of the game.

We need to be better so that we don't have to rely on an umpire making a correct call in order to win the game.

We know now they give us absolutely nothing, that means we have to be better so we don't keep finding ourselves in this position over and over again.

 

[PeterSalt]

I know this in tin foil hat stuff, and I am not suggesting this in a serious manner.....


But, we are a big club with a large supporter base. We have had 4 or 5 of these bad decisions in the last 3 years. Most of which the AFL have apologised.


Given this is a theatre league, driven by TV and media, are these really mistakes? Or does the AFL see a benefit in creating "discussion" with this happening to a large club with lots of supporters.

No doubt a bump in traffic across AFL media because of this.......


Again, not a serious suggestion. But we can't just be that unlucky.


There has to be reason for these bad calls, which the AFL admit are bad, to happen so often to one club in the past 3 seasons.

4 in 37 games

As far as I know only the goal umpire was the only umpire to face any legit repercussions from the AFL to this point

I am struggling to see any benefit as yet to the quality of in game umpiring in general as a result of adding an additional on field umpire a few years ago

At the same time the AFL has lamented the difficultly in attracting umpires to the sport in general and have deliberately tried to hose down vocal criticisms of umpiring in general.

Additionally they continue to tweak some rules, which had led to widespread confusion. Clubs and coaches are now openly saying that they don't understand the current interpretation of HTB.

The AFL also has the option to clearly deal with some rules to take out any ambiguity. But they refuse to. Deliberate out of bounds/insufficient intent is a perfect example

The AFL seems to like the noise from the crowd reaction and the seemingly random at times application of the rule which leads to a widespread emotional reaction from both supporters bases

And they still refuse to make the umpiring role a full time career

 

[rocket18]

We know it's a free kick all day and every day. But if I was going to argue on behalf of the umpire, I'd say that from his angle he saw the contact and ball spill but didn't see that the Suns player was tackling Rankine to the ground. It's definitely a missed free but I'm not that heavy on pure incompetence, let alone bias. I wouldn't mind asking where the other umpire was, the side on view would be the best in terms of seeing the tackle. No pun, you dirty minds.

I think you are being very generous to the umpire, front on he could clearly see the tackle.

Rankine was grabbed and brought down in a marking contest.

The umpire pings you if you have just one arm around the forward - let alone a full blown tackle that brings the forward down.

Bizzare

 

[pjcrows]

Nicks mentioned the 5 day break last week, he mentioned it again yesterday in his post match, and now Silvers has mentioned it in his statement today.

This has all the markings of Sanderson 2014 when he mentioned Brisbane's heat about six times in as many days, and we lost to Richmond at home the week after.

 

[Ham]

Wonder if something did happen behind the scenes? How much was Keane fined for his 4th tripping offence?