Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2023

[Sweetback]

Oh... sorry where's the football thread?

This is footy. Without community and inclusion, football is nothing.

 

[SupermanCapes]

Thanks for taking the time to talk that out, all really well put.

My own view is that whoever leaked the report to the media has some answering to do. There is nothing wrong with a truth-telling report until the results are published publicly before the accused parties have been involved. At that point it's a half-finished investigation that has done all of the damage without any of the healing.

Oh god, I've just seen that Jeff Kennett made the same point. I feel unclean.

 

[Bigger]

That always hurts.

 

[Nothing]

"Presumption of innocence" is a procedural principle; "not guilty" is a verdict (result).

Within the system of (Australian) legal discourse, "not guilty" does not mean "innocent", because the finding of "innocence" is not available to the court. Not guilty simply means that the prosecutor was not able to prove that the defendant did it. (Here, we could also have a supplementary discussion about the different standards for burden of proof.)

Moreover, the principle of the "presumption of innocence" isn't "innocent until proven guilty", but rather derives from the Latin "Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negate", which translates roughly as "the burden of proof lies with the one who asserts, not with the one who denies".

Presumption of innocence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As a procedural principle, the presumption of innocence does not ascribe the character of innocence to anyone, nor even presumes it of anyone. Rather, it is a means of legitimating particular judicial processes and techniques — e.g. those concerning the acquisition of evidence, witness testimony and examination, etc. — and disqualifying others. To risk an analogy, we could say that the "presumption of innocence" is built into judicial procedures in the sense that the presumption that people generally are not psychopaths is built into the procedures of polite social interaction. When I want to buy something from a shop, for instance, I take it up to the counter and conduct my behaviour and speech as though the sales clerk were not a violent psychopath. The fact that I make it out of the store alive doesn't in itself mean that the sales clerk isn't a psychopath, that he/she wasn't about to stab me in the eye with a hunting knife.

It's a bit silly, or at least contentious, to appeal to "presumption of innocence" outside the context of the judiciary, as SupermanCapes explained.

Did you just ChatGPT that or are you not really an ignoramus ?

 

[gaskin]

Dunno if anyone else is watching the state game but this last quarter is very much free kick SA.

 

[anchor man]

Dunno if anyone else is watching the state game but this last quarter is very much free kick SA.

Scores please.
SA Umpires?

 

[gaskin]

Scores please.
SA Umpires?

SANFL win by 13 points.

I don't think it is all SA umps. Both states have to provide 1 goal umpire and 2 umpires, IIRC.

 

[Ge3ks]

Only saw the last few mins, recognised Crowden and was that Giro out there, too?

 

[gaskin]

Only saw the last few mins, recognised Crowden and was that Giro out there, too?

Yes.

 

[Kram]

Doesn't need to be a long argument, can be wrapped up pretty quickly actually.

Innocent until proven guilty. End of discussion.

Just like Michael Jackson!

 

[MadMundy]

Hope Melbourne win this game

 

[sdfc]

Hope Melbourne win this game

I can't stand Port. They highlight how shit we've been since we entered the league.

 

[MadMundy]

I can't stand Port. They highlight how s**t we've been since we entered the league.

Plus Never Tear Us Apart has gone from one of my favourite songs to something I can't stand because of the Pear.

 

[Kram]

Plus Never Tear Us Apart has gone from one of my favourite songs to something I can't stand because of the Pear.

At least all our silly stuff like the rolling anchor were so bad they were good for a laugh. They take take lame thing with the song so seriously but it's really just pure cringe.

 

[Ge3ks]

Cracker of a game so far. Blistering pace all round.

 

[Ge3ks]

....and the rain just ruined it.

 

[armpit]

This game is going to be a slog. Lucky the team who plays them next week.

 

[Taylor]

Let's have some heavy brusing footy tonight.

 

[Scham]

I can't stand Port. They highlight how s**t we've been since we entered the league.

They were set up correctly and I'm sure learnt a lot from all of our mistakes.

 

[armpit]

Well well well

 

[armpit]

I reckon it's too early to call, but Melbourne are going to have to go harder if they want a win out in the rain.

 

[nurries]

This game is going to be a slog. Lucky the team who plays them next week.

We said the same about the bulldogs game. Don’t underestimate the s & c guys these days

 

[Ge3ks]

The commentator just said Port Adeliade players are better at handling heavy wet balls.


....yeah I'll show myself out.

 

[armpit]

The commentator just said Port Adeliade players are better at handling heavy wet balls.


....yeah I'll show myself out.

Taken out of Bruce's handbook.

 

[estibador]

These blocking free kicks to Gawn are ridiculous. It's starting to remind me of our Hawthorn prelim when the umps were briefed in advance to look for reasons to pay frees against Ballas.