Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVII

[Phone]

the AFL has once again let a star player off the hook by having their Match Review Officer within the Football Operations Department suspend the player and then the independent AFL Tribunal over-turning the decision because the AFL was wrong

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Naturally

 

[HirdyLannister]

I don't care either way with Dangers decision, but I'm sick and tired of Essendon not challenging Michael Christian chook raffle MRO and we keep taking it like a cuck.

 

[crackers65]

All hail Saint Patrick. How dare that clown at the match revue report such a good guy as Patrick. A Brownlow medallist and all round great guy.

 

[brutus76]

yeah can't have the President of the AFLPA get suspended - he has a golden key remember

 

[katana]

the AFL has once again let a star player off the hook by having their Match Review Officer within the Football Operations Department suspend the player and then the independent AFL Tribunal over-turning the decision because the AFL was wrong

i don't have an issue with this specific decision, but how 'independent' do you imagine that tribunal is lol

 

[Phone]

i don't have an issue with this specific decision, but how 'independent' do you imagine that tribunal is lol

Given they keep over-turning the AFL's decisions to the AFL's embarrassment, I'm not sure the AFL is getting much out of a phoney independent relationship

 

[yodellinhank]

Given they keep over-turning the AFL's decisions to the AFL's embarrassment, I'm not sure the AFL is getting much out of a phoney independent relationship

Embarrassment? Players have always got off at tribunals.

 

[Zach Package]

Tomahawk faking an injury so he doesn’t have to face Brandon Zerk-Thatcher

25

Brandon...

Age

25

Ht

195cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.5

3star

MG

148.5

2star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

124.0

2star

D

11.5

3star

K

8.5

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.5

5star

T

1.5

4star

MG

148.5

3star

again this week is a sad state of affairs.

Integrity of the AFL has gone to shit

 

[Phone]

Embarrassment? Players have always got off at tribunals.

And circa 10 years ago in the days of the MRP almost nothing got successfully challenged at the Tribunal. Now we have the MRO and the Football Ops Department constantly suspending players for actions broadly within the player safety/concussion area and the Tribunal over-turning it, often because the AFL hasn't fixed up their rule-book to actually line-up with what the Ops department is trying to do and so making the AFL look stupid. (it feels like often the fans think the AFL are stupid for reasons different to the reasons that the AFL have been stupid)

 

[Phone]

but if anyone wants an AFL/AFL Tribunal Conspiracy, here's one: the AFL suspended Butters last week for that strike even though they knew it would be over-turned at the Tribunal because they wanted to avoid more headlines about the MRO looking after a Brownlow favourite

 

[yodellinhank]

And circa 10 years ago in the days of the MRP almost nothing got successfully challenged at the Tribunal. Now we have the MRO and the Football Ops Department constantly suspending players for actions broadly within the player safety/concussion area and the Tribunal over-turning it, often because the AFL hasn't fixed up their rule-book to actually line-up with what the Ops department is trying to do and so making the AFL look stupid. (it feels like often the fans think the AFL are stupid for reasons different to the reasons that the AFL have been stupid)

Yeah the AFL must be real upset about MRO decisions putting AFL in the headlines early in the week and the tribunal putting AFL in the headlines throughout the week. How embarrassing. How stupid they are.

 

[yodellinhank]

but if anyone wants an AFL/AFL Tribunal Conspiracy, here's one: the AFL suspended Butters last week for that strike even though they knew it would be over-turned at the Tribunal because they wanted to avoid more headlines about the MRO looking after a Brownlow favourite

I'll give you the tip - they aren't avoiding headlines.

 

[Phone]

I'll give you the tip - they aren't avoiding headlines.

Which is why it's a fun conspiracy. It's certainly more fun than the idea that people have that the AFL is trying to protect Butters when they literally tried to suspend him.

Yeah the AFL must be real upset about MRO decisions putting AFL in the headlines early in the week and the tribunal putting AFL in the headlines throughout the week. How embarrassing. How stupid they are.

yeah I'd be quite surprised if the AFL was happy with the tribunal down grading Charlie Cameron's ban on a good bloke basis, on Jesse Hogan's ban being over-turned despite off-season rule changes aimed at punishing that stuff (and with the chairman of the tribunal pointing to an error in the rule book that ensured Hogan's ban needed to be over-turned) and now Dangerfield's ban being over-turned with the Tribunal basically saying "you didn't properly look at replays of the incident". I'm pretty sure the AFL isn't exactly having trouble staying out of the headlines in the middle of football season. I don't think they're so desperate so as to intentionally make incorrect decisions that the tribunal dunks all over like with Hogan and Dangerfield

 

[Kong]

Genuine question, because I don't follow this sort of thing.

But how or why would there be an independent body for suspension challenges? Why would the AFL have this and not an independent:

Umpiring department
Journalists and media have full access
Whoever hands out "bringing into disrepute" charges

etc?

Surely it's just another arm that's heavily AFL controlled and employed.

 

[Phone]

Genuine question, because I don't follow this sort of thing.

But how or why would there be an independent body for suspension challenges? Why would the AFL have this and not an independent:

Umpiring department
Journalists and media have full access
Whoever hands out "bringing into disrepute" charges

etc?

Surely it's just another arm that's heavily AFL controlled and employed.

Well to go on a more historic tangent, the MRP panel was once independent too, although many doubted just how independent that could be. After a period where the MRP panel was clearly ruling on things differently to how the AFL wanted them to rule on things, they got rid of the MRP, installed the MRO and moved to the current system where the Head of Footy Ops rubber-stamps all decisions, so making it very clear that the MRO is not independent. Every suspension that comes out of the MRO is approved by the head of Footy.

At the same time, they made it easier to challenge decisions at the Tribunal, which in part happened due to lobbying from the clubs due to the risks involved in challenging suspensions (which was usually the addition of an extra week to the offered ban). And I suppose that's the obvious reason to have a further appeals process, the clubs wouldn't shut up about it and neither would the AFLPA if there wasn't one. At the end of the day, the AFL needs to bargain with the players and it needs to work with the clubs. Something as fundamental as not having the AFL be judge, jury and executioner is obviously going to be something that the Clubs and AFLPA wants and how long could the AFL really fight not having a proper appeals process?

The other thing, and I don't know the full history of Tribunal stuff back then, but before the MRP, Tribunal & the Appeals Board, we used to have bans sometimes challenged in the Supreme Court. Andrew Dunkley playing the 1996 GF after taking out Hird via an appeal to the Supreme Court being probably the most well known one. So it's in the AFL's own interests to have a fairly robust tribunal system that can handle the entire process before the next round of games and doesn't have cases taken to the Supreme Court.

I'm pretty sure the NRL process is much the same, there's a match review committee and the judiciary panel for any appeals is independent from the NRL. The NHL, which runs a Department of Player Safety that makes the AFL system look like the greatest thing on earth, has an neutral arbitrator who can hear appeals for bans over a certain length as well. A quick google search tells me that the Premier League process for Red Card bans being over-turned is heard by an "independent regulatory commission". So it's not like the AFL is on it's own here.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

This was posted on the main board

AFL Rivalries - Who your team loves to hate

Which teams love to hate each other? Learn more about the recent popular Twitter poll from @thebackpocketau

www.thebackpocketau.com

Some takeaways:

• 13% of saints supporters hate their own team most
• 84% of north fans voted for us, only 9% of bombers fans voted north. Big Don Draper "I don't think of you at all" energy there
• no one gives a shit about the Suns

 

[faible]

Geeze that's not like the afl to do that

His 2017 was arguably better than Dusty's and he was suspended then.

Only lost by 3 votes, including the suspended game, and a Round 22 game where he had 32 disposals, 12 clearances, 2 goals for 0 votes.

 

[astrowizzle]

They're saying what was dangers alternative. Well what the **** was weidermans and Wright
Christian has to ****ing go

 

[joey_jo_jo]

They're saying what was dangers alternative. Well what the **** was weidermans and Wright
Christian has to ****ing go

As much as I love to shit on Christian, there's no connection to him here. Weid was VFL system so he wasn't involved at all and he cited both Wright and Danger. It was the appeal process that was got danger off.

 

[Squeaky]

As much as I love to shit on Christian, there's no connection to him here. Weid was VFL system so he wasn't involved at all and he cited both Wright and Danger. It was the appeal process that was got danger off.

Sack the campaigner anyway!

 

[Rick Ross]

Spare me.
General media and public weighing in on medical matters is as laughable as it is horrifying people actually think their opinion should matter.

Most people are genuinely morons when it comes to anything medical or even health related, we are also ignorant of the types of things players play with at all times.
After sitting through a ****ing pandemic and listening to the uneducated masses and people learn basic hygiene and quarantine protocols I'll pass on being lectured to by people who think they can diagnose a player injury better than the Dr actually examining the player.

When you measure this through the lens of players playing through fractures, tears etc this isn't an isolated incident.
People saying "oh they shouldn't have risked it",
Sure, please keep that energy for all the other times a high level athlete pushes the envelope.

If the proper medical checks and processes were followed, and it appears they have been and were ticked off then uneducated people more focused on the actual extent of the injury rather than the actual process should back off.
The proper process can be followed and still miss things.

People play with fractured/cracked/broken ribs much of the time.
People push through things that in the cold light of day and long term health they maybe shouldn't, but that has been high level sport for a very very long time.
It's how we get legendary stories and moments.

If people are going to suddenly be up in arms about this because they actually care about player health then I'm very keen to see the absolute massive community change in how we treat people pushing the envelope.
Wide spread condemnation of players and medical staff playing through broken or fractured bones.
Not celebratory articles and news grabs after grand finals or big games applauding bravery.

But that won't happen, this is a high profile player suffering a fairly unique/different injury than your typical hamstring or broken leg and it's media airwave filler to make money, just as it is when they wax poetic about how brave a person is that they took the field with a fractured leg.

The absolute arrogance to lecture medical professionals on what they should have done.




I'm actually surprised we don't seem to have any imaging available, they use it in NFL to rule out breaks and many things before allowing return to play.
Though I assume that may have something to also do with the amount of painkillers they are on, pain as a measurement isn't useful when they can't feel things on a normal scale.

Maybe you could spare us your condescending holier than thou thesis.

Medical staff are human. Not perfect. This is a clear example where they got it terribly wrong.

People in serious roles need to have their performance reviewed, learn from mistakes and if necessary be held accountable.

Competitors push boundaries but are not medically trained. The medical staff are there to provide medical input. In this case they got it majorly wrong.

Refusing to acknowledge this and perpetuate medical staff being beyond reproach is dangerous - if you don’t learn from errors, you repeat them.

 

[rumply]

 

[ghostdog]

This was posted on the main board

AFL Rivalries - Who your team loves to hate

Which teams love to hate each other? Learn more about the recent popular Twitter poll from @thebackpocketau

www.thebackpocketau.com

Some takeaways:

• 13% of saints supporters hate their own team most
• 84% of north fans voted for us, only 9% of bombers fans voted north. Big Don Draper "I don't think of you at all" energy there
• no one gives a shit about the Suns

Theory confirmed. The Saga did indeed bring the game into disrepute, but not as much as Eddie brought the game into disrepute.

 

[Mercurial89]

Maybe you could spare us your condescending holier than thou thesis.

Medical staff are human. Not perfect. This is a clear example where they got it terribly wrong.

People in serious roles need to have their performance reviewed, learn from mistakes and if necessary be held accountable.

Competitors push boundaries but are not medically trained. The medical staff are there to provide medical input. In this case they got it majorly wrong.

Refusing to acknowledge this and perpetuate medical staff being beyond reproach is dangerous - if you don’t learn from errors, you repeat them.

Surprised you kept up the energy for that long, good for you.
Not against review.

Just not for public lynching by uneducated idiots.

Have a nice day.