Moved Thread Neutral fans: Hawkins or Riewoldt?

Neutral fans: Who’s the better player over the course of their 16 seasons

  • Tom Hawkins

    Votes: 238 69.8%
  • Jack Riewoldt

    Votes: 103 30.2%

  • Total voters
    341

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Bro the thread was made by a cats supporter and STP was the first unbiased supporter to comment
I only got dragged in because a Tugger made a clueless comment that Hawkins wasn't a crucial part in any of Geelong's premierships. Everyone watched 2011 and saw what he did that day, denying it serves no purpose.

Other than that I remain completely impartial. :grinv1:
 
A Coleman isn't analogous to a Brownlow when measuring a forward's value.

Hawkins has a few less goals, but averages more Goal Assists. In Jack's early days he kicked more goals than he does today, but was a less valuable team player.

None of the above are close to Buddy, Carey or GAS as actual players.

Wayne Carey has 0 Coleman Medals but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who argues Carey isn't a better forward than Hawkins or either Reiwoldt that isn't a one-eyed supporter.

I think it's fair to argue Jack Reiwoldt and Hawkins are similar; they average similar score involvements (Reiwoldt a few more goals himself, Hawkins a few more assists) and marks i50. I'd put Nick ahead of both, personally. But none on the same planet as Buddy of forwards this era.

If you think having a similar number of Colemans as Buddy or GAS, and many more than Carey, makes Jack 'almost' as good as any of them, then I think you're very, very wrong.

I can’t remember the stats but i think I saw on the Hawkins 700 goal thread Jack has about 40 more goals and Hawkins has 40 more career score involvements. It’s amazing how similar they are, I would take goals > score assists but that’s just me.
 
I can’t remember the stats but i think I saw on the Hawkins 700 goal thread Jack has about 40 more goals and Hawkins has 40 more career score involvements. It’s amazing how similar they are, I would take goals > score assists but that’s just me.
You could mount a serious argument that with their current career trajectory Hawkins will be ahead in both stats by the time they're both finished up.
 

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You could mount a serious argument that with their current career trajectory Hawkins will be ahead in both stats by the time they're both finished up.
I don’t think longevity necessarily means better though. Once Jack retires the discussion then turns to career averages imo.

Boomer Harvey or Shaun Burgoyne aren’t better players for playing 400+ games and they’re not factors when comparing them to similar players in their position.
 
You could mount a serious argument that with their current career trajectory Hawkins will be ahead in both stats by the time they're both finished up.

He won’t finish with more Coleman’s though, they are a very big deal for FF’s. The only won he got was 42 goals lol as mention by a previous poster. I think the decision is pretty clear cut regarding who is better.
 
While I don’t agree with belittling the volume of goals Riewoldt kicked in some of his Coleman years - if it was so easy why didn’t other players kick more - do the people ragging on Hawkins’ 42 goal Coleman in 2020 realise that not only were the games 16 minutes shorter, there was 5 less of them as well?

His total was essentially achieved in 13 full matches. It works out, pro rata, to be the equivalent of a 68 goal season.

The lack of intelligent analysis on this forum is utterly staggering at times
 
Yeah, Junktime Jack kicked 5 while having zero influence on the game.

Tom Hawkins won a Norm Smith because he won the game for Geelong.

Its actually impressive to kick that many goals yet not actually help the team win.
confirmed 5, i wont assume for a minute longer it was a half dozen. Thanks. Maybe Tomahawk will get belated Norm Smith this year.
 
While I don’t agree with belittling the volume of goals Riewoldt kicked in some of his Coleman years - if it was so easy why didn’t other players kick more - do the people ragging on Hawkins’ 42 goal Coleman in 2020 realise that not only were the games 16 minutes shorter, there was 5 less of them as well?

His total was essentially achieved in 13 full matches. It works out, pro rata, to be the equivalent of a 68 goal season.

The lack of intelligent analysis on this forum is utterly staggering at times

It’s actually 63 I’m pretty sure

42 goals x 1.25 = 52 goals

52 goal / 18 games = 2.89 goals a game average

2.89 x 22 games = 63 goals

So Hawkins best Coleman is worse than jacks worst Coleman being 65. Thanks for the clarification. Jacks best is 78 in 2010 btw smoked Hawkins in a crap team at the time.
 
It’s actually 63 I’m pretty sure

42 goals x 1.25 = 52 goals

52 goal / 18 games = 2.89 goals a game average

2.89 x 22 games = 63 goals

So Hawkins best Coleman is worse than jacks worst Coleman being 65. Thanks for the clarification. Jacks best is 78 in 2010 btw smoked Hawkins in a crap team at the time.

It was 17 games mate.

Having used a calculator, it works out to about 65.8

Again, it’s got nothing to do with any total Riewoldt has kicked. It’s related to the idiots saying ‘Hawkins won a Coleman kicking only 42 goals.’

He kicked that total playing a ‘season’ of 14.4 games worth of game time.
 
2020 GF case in point, Jack basically doesn't touch the ball until late in the 3rd quarter. Kicks a couple of cheapies at the end and carries on like he just won the game off his own boot.

Hawkins every day of the week and twice on sundays.
Kicked the first goal in the third and the sealer in the last, probably kicks a few more in a full length game too
 

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Can't deny that Jack is a superstar however Hawkins is just better. Jack can fly but Hawkins can score from ruck contests and won't lose a body to body contest.
 
It was 17 games mate.

Having used a calculator, it works out to about 65.8

Again, it’s got nothing to do with any total Riewoldt has kicked. It’s related to the idiots saying ‘Hawkins won a Coleman kicking only 42 goals.’

He kicked that total playing a ‘season’ of 14.4 games worth of game time.

Eh same thing, forgot if there was a bye in 2020 and you said 5 games less.
 
I'm not neutral, but they are fairly even.

JR has Colemans etc. But to me the 2nd half of his career he has changed what KPFs do. He brought in the rest of the team in a major way that KPFs tend not to do. Really amazing, less goals but greater impact.

Hawkins is a monster who can hold down that KPF spot like few can do. When he's on he basically dominates the forward line like Carey. Obviously not to Carey's consistent standard, but genuinely elite.

They play the same role very differently. Hawkins is a very very good traditional monster KPF. JR has morphed into a true team player who acts as a catalyst to the entire attacking structure.

JR can't consistently do what Hawkins does - monster people and physically dominate.

The Tomahawk doesn't do the extra stuff Jack does to anywhere near the same extent - tap ons, blocks etc.
 
I assumed it was Tom Hawkins v Nick Roo from title.
Had to giggle when found out it not.
Nick Roo v Hawkins would be more interesting as would find it harder to split.
Think I would go Nick Roo in that.
 
Ahh interesting. I had assumed he did. He was brilliant in 2011. More love for midfielders I guess.

Let me furnish you with some facts here Hairy to assist you in appraising the respective Grand Final performances of the pair. 😁

Hawkins got 5 of a possible 15 votes in 2011 in the Dusty Medal. Riewoldt got 3 of a possible 15 votes in 2019 in the Dusty Medal. Both were playing on crocked opponents.

The 2020 Grand Final saw them go head to head in a Grand Final.

Hawkins 3 kicks, 7 handballs, 3 marks, 1 goal, 2 behinds, 3 tackles, 4 hitouts, 0 goal assists, 1 inside 50, 1 clearance, 4 contested possessions, 5 effective disposals, 50% disposal efficiency, 0 contested marks, 3 marks inside 50, 1 x 1%er, 5 score involvements, 3 turnovers.

Riewoldt 8 kicks, 1 handball, 3 marks, 2 goals, 2 behinds, 3 tackles, 1 goal assist, 2 inside 50’s, 5 contested possessions, 4 effective disposals, 44% disposal efficiency, 1 contested mark, 3 marks inside 50, 4 x 1%ers, 0 clearances, 6 score involvements, 3 turnovers.

Who do you think had the better game?



Total Grand Final appearances:

Hawkins 3. 6 goals, 5 behinds + 1 goal assist. 37 disposals.

Riewoldt 3. 9 goals, 6 behinds + 2 goal assists. 36 disposals.


Who do you think has done better in Grand Finals overall?
 

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Moved Thread Neutral fans: Hawkins or Riewoldt?


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