Player Watch Jack Crisp

[Cyclops]

This is complete bullshit that you are peddling. Stynes was a champion footballer and is primarily remembered for that.

Sure, have a bex and a lie down.

I saw Stynes in the 1988 Grand Final. I saw him play Collingwood perhaps a dozen times and I was not impressed by anything other than his handballing. I'm told he was durable so I guess he didn't get worse in the course of a game, but he never displayed champion skill or athleticism.

A nice man sure, a very fit player who adapted brilliantly to be competent in many areas of our game and a lovely story, and goodness knows Melbourne needed a good story in the 90's.

Champion bloke? Sure. Champion player? Never saw that.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Maybe apply some probability to your bullshit theory hypothesis that Crisp has been holding himself back. chasing the record could have been impacting his game in some material (positive or negative) way

EFA

You really think a player is totally unaffected by the possibility of getting their name in the record books?

 

[mocamagic]

Stynes tag teamed with a better ruck in Stephen ODwyer for much of his career, and when he retired (maybe went to Richmond?) due to injuries Schwarz and that ugly FF Bennett chopped out in the ruck.

Stynes was fitter but not a very talented tap ruck (ODwyer was clearly superior for mine) and only a passable short kick (he seemed to dink them about 20 metres). O'Dwyer took the important hit outs when they played, Stynes rucked more around the ground. definitely extremely fit, he was described as more like ruck rover the way he got around the field: most rucks then were dinosaurs. Maybe he did match Crisps game time? Its plausible.

Stynes was a good handball though and a nice man, which I think is most of the reason for the adulation. He got a lot of credit for not being crap even he only took the game up at about 19.

Very over rated as a player for mine, a good fit player but never the best player in the league, or even at Melbourne really.

O'Dwyer wasn't superior and only played 84 games for Melbourne.

 

[sideswipe]

Sure, have a bex and a lie down.

I saw Stynes in the 1988 Grand Final. I saw him play Collingwood perhaps a dozen times and I was not impressed by anything other than his handballing. I'm told he was durable so I guess he didn't get worse in the course of a game, but he never displayed champion skill or athleticism.

A nice man sure, a very fit player who adapted brilliantly to be competent in many areas of our game and a lovely story, and goodness knows Melbourne needed a good story in the 90's.

Champion bloke? Sure. Champion player? Never saw that.

Maybe you could do benefit from a welfare check yourself?

You mightn't have seen it, but any objective reading of his footy career achievements puts him firmly in the champion category, as nebulous as that might be.

 

[gouki88]

EFA

You really think a player is totally unaffected by the possibility of getting their name in the record books?

A hypothesis is an educated guess, generally and to an extent. I wouldn't call your wild speculation that

 

[sideswipe]

EFA

You really think a player is totally unaffected by the possibility of getting their name in the record books?

I think I am being adversely affected by bullshit.

 

[Cyclops]

Maybe you could do benefit from a welfare check yourself?

You mightn't have seen it, but any objective reading of his footy career achievements puts him firmly in the champion category, as nebulous as that might be.

It's a very loose criteria that makes Jim Stynes a champion footballer.

For me it's Carey, Lockett, Brereton, Ablett Snr. Dusty a champion finals player, maybe Judd WCE era.

I'll rate me seeing footy over a list of awards.

Apparently he had a good year in 1991, and then won some more b&fs in a middling to cellar dwelling Dees side.

I won't argue he was a good footballer (its incredible how he adapted to our game), and his story is amazing. Not a champion, but a champion bloke.

O'Dwyer wasn't superior and only played 84 games for Melbourne.

ODwyer was first ruck until he got injured and went to Richmond. Wiki says in the 1988 GF Danny Hughes was first ruck.

 

[sideswipe]

It's a very loose criteria that makes Jim Stynes a champion footballer.

For me it's Carey, Lockett, Brereton, Ablett Snr. Dusty a champion finals player, maybe Judd WCE era.

I'll rate me seeing footy over a list of awards.

Apparently he had a good year in 1991, and then won some more b&fs in a middling to cellar dwelling Dees side.

I won't argue he was a good footballer (its incredible how he adapted to our game), and his story is amazing. Not a champion, but a champion bloke.


ODwyer was first ruck until he got injured and went to Richmond. Wiki says in the 1988 GF Danny Hughes was first ruck.

Don't try to narrow the field now. This was your initial position. Just own the fact it was completely inaccurate.

"Very over rated as a player for mine, a good fit player but never the best player in the league, or even at Melbourne really."

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Anyhow .. it will be great when Crispy breaks the record & goes on to smash it.

What an accomplishment. Jim would have loved it & Dee fans will probably have a whinge.

 

[sr36]

If he breaks the record, it’ll be interesting to see if / how it affects his footy.

Has he been conservative in some way to preserve his body / avoid risk of suspension, and getting the record will release the shackles?

Has getting the record given him life purpose, and afterwards will he let himself go and be condemned to a life on the couch with pizzas, Netflix and getting smashed?

I’m guessing his footy will go to another level (up) once the record stops being a thing.

It'd be great if Round 8 next year Jack takes it to another level, but I think you're dreaming. The bloke just doesn't stop that powerful running. It's one thing that will make his record extra special - he doesn't just cruise out there, he's driving his legs like pistons.

 

[NMBB]

Anyhow .. it will be great when Crispy breaks the record & goes on to smash it.

What an accomplishment. Jim would have loved it & Dee fans will probably have a whinge.

Hopefully we play Melbourne and Maynard delivers a very fair hip and shoulder to Fritsch in the very same game

 

[mocamagic]

It's a very loose criteria that makes Jim Stynes a champion footballer.

For me it's Carey, Lockett, Brereton, Ablett Snr. Dusty a champion finals player, maybe Judd WCE era.

I'll rate me seeing footy over a list of awards.

Apparently he had a good year in 1991, and then won some more b&fs in a middling to cellar dwelling Dees side.

I won't argue he was a good footballer (its incredible how he adapted to our game), and his story is amazing. Not a champion, but a champion bloke.


ODwyer was first ruck until he got injured and went to Richmond. Wiki says in the 1988 GF Danny Hughes was first ruck.

I was at the 1988 GF. As a surprise tactic, John Northey rucked Hughes at the opening bounce. It lasted 5 minutes.
Wiki gives the starting positions only.

 

[Vicky Park]

Jack’s gonna do this

 

[manicpie]

Jack’s gonna do this

He's a lucky man

 

[Cyclops]

I was at the 1988 GF. As a surprise tactic, John Northey rucked Hughes at the opening bounce. It lasted 5 minutes.
Wiki gives the starting positions only.

I recall Dear (and Abbott when he relieved) dominated the ruck, and Abbott kicked a huge bag in the pouring rain. Well it poured in the second. I was sitting behind Darten Pritchards sister, nice girl but she put up her umbrella and it dumped all her rain into my lap.

You could always get tickets to the GF in the 80s, Hawks had very few supporters so j went to about 8.

I think Hughes rucked more than one bounce though? It wasn't just Stynes getting smashed all day.

 

[mocamagic]

I recall Dear (and Abbott when he relieved) dominated the ruck, and Abbott kicked a huge bag in the pouring rain. Well it poured in the second. I was sitting behind Darten Pritchards sister, nice girl but she put up her umbrella and it dumped all her rain into my lap.

You could always get tickets to the GF in the 80s, Hawks had very few supporters so j went to about 8.

I think Hughes rucked more than one bounce though? It wasn't just Stynes getting smashed all day.

I just had a look at the stats to refresh my memory.
Hughes credited with 2 hitouts only. Stynes and Dear 12 each.
I used to stand every year at the GF. I was glad Melbourne got thumped.

 

[Cyclops]

I just had a look at the stats to refresh my memory.
Hughes credited with 2 hitouts only. Stynes and Dear 12 each.
I used to stand every year at the GF. I was glad Melbourne got thumped.

2 Hitouts? So you're probably right just a cameo.

That 1988 Hawthorn side was fearsome. I didn't like Northey's tactics, and guys like Grinter and Hughes made me sick, so i was happy for the Hawks (I like them a bit less now, especially Kennett).

I got lucky in 1990, Bay 38 standing room.

 

[Cyclops]

Don't try to narrow the field now. This was your initial position. Just own the fact it was completely inaccurate.

"Very over rated as a player for mine, a good fit player but never the best player in the league, or even at Melbourne really."

Absolutely stand by what I said, and the evidence of my own eyes. I encourage you to watch more footy, its enjoyable and you find out things.

 

[sideswipe]

Absolutely stand by what I said, and the evidence of my own eyes. I encourage you to watch more footy, its enjoyable and you find out things.

Well, I gave you the objective evidence of the AFLPA as a collective.

The "evidence" of your own eyes is objectively flawed. But you do you. I am sure the Northern Suburbs are better for your presence.

 

[Cyclops]

Well, I gave you the objective evidence of the AFLPA as a collective.

The "evidence" of your own eyes is objectively flawed. But you do you. I am sure the Northern Suburbs are better for your presence.

You have an objectively broad definition of a champion: by your measure Andrew Brayshaw and Russell Greene are champions.

If you're happy with that I'm happy for you, but you'll understand more footy by watching than browsing the internet.

 

[sideswipe]

You have an objectively broad definition of a champion: by your measure Andrew Brayshaw and Russell Greene are champions.

If you're happy with that I'm happy for you, but you'll understand more footy by watching than browsing the internet.

That wasn't evidence of the nebulous champion category. It was evidence that your assertion that Stynes was "never the best player in the league" was objectively wrong. The combined Brownlow/MVP win is unassailable evidence.

You like that watching footy line. Maybe you do watch lots of footy. Maybe your watching skills are flawed. You are certainly providing evidence to support that possibility.

 

[Cyclops]

That wasn't evidence of the nebulous champion category. It was evidence that your assertion that Stynes was "never the best player in the league" was objectively wrong. The combined Brownlow/MVP win is unassailable evidence.

You like that watching footy line. Maybe you do watch lots of footy. Maybe your watching skills are flawed. You are certainly providing evidence to support that possibility.

Well that's a fair point, I thought you were using the AFLMVP to establish the nebulous champion status so I apologise for misconstruing your point.

I still disagree you've presented anything like objective evidence. For a start the AFLPA is for most valuable, not best.

I think players are like punters and can get swept up in a nice story. I think that's what Stynes good performance in 1991 was: a nice story about a beaut bloke. valuable sure, a very fit ruck, but not the best player. maybe he was the most valuable, given ODwyer got injured and he carried the ruck bravely and competently?

Likewise the Brownlow is for "fairest and best", but lets not kid ourselves its any sort of objective measure of best, its usually a thereabout medal at best, in years when it isn't a joke.

From memory Plugger was better that year (and every year they played in the league together), there was an awesome West Coast side bristling with talent, guys like Matera etc. although they fell in the GF they were the best side with many of the best players all year. If we think hard we can probably come up with 10 better players than Stynes in 1991 if you're interested in discussion.

 

[sideswipe]

Well that's a fair point, I thought you were using the AFLMVP to establish the nebulous champion status so I apologise for misconstruing your point.

I still disagree you've presented anything like objective evidence. For a start the AFLPA is for most valuable, not best.

I think players are like punters and can get swept up in a nice story. I think that's what Stynes good performance in 1991 was: a nice story about a beaut bloke. valuable sure, a very fit ruck, but not the best player. maybe he was the most valuable, given ODwyer got injured and he carried the ruck bravely and competently?

Likewise the Brownlow is for "fairest and best", but lets not kid ourselves its any sort of objective measure of best, its usually a thereabout medal at best, in years when it isn't a joke.

From memory Plugger was better that year (and every year they played in the league together), there was an awesome West Coast side bristling with talent, guys like Matera etc. although they fell in the GF they were the best side with many of the best players all year. If we think hard we can probably come up with 10 better players than Stynes in 1991 if you're interested in discussion.

Let's leave it there. Your self-proclaimed I Watch Lots has gotten a bit tiresome.

 

[Finnishpie]

Sure, have a bex and a lie down.

I saw Stynes in the 1988 Grand Final. I saw him play Collingwood perhaps a dozen times and I was not impressed by anything other than his handballing. I'm told he was durable so I guess he didn't get worse in the course of a game, but he never displayed champion skill or athleticism.

A nice man sure, a very fit player who adapted brilliantly to be competent in many areas of our game and a lovely story, and goodness knows Melbourne needed a good story in the 90's.

Champion bloke? Sure. Champion player? Never saw that.

Can you get me some bex?