Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[ZEV]

Chile and Mexico overnight have filed a request with the International Criminal Court to investigate Israeli war crimes. It's just not being reported in the Australian media.

The global south is having a moment uniting to stand up for human rights, and the old world powers are doing their best to ignore it.

The request is also to investigate Hamas war crimes.

It's just not being reported in your posting.

 

[sherb]

I wonder if murdering your own unarmed hostages, one of whom was waving a white flag, is a war crime?

 

[faible]

The request is also to investigate Hamas war crimes.

Fine by me, investigate them all.

Mexico and Chile ask ICC to investigate Israel-Hamas conflict

Call for probe into possible crimes shows mounting global concern over ‘escalation of violence’ in Middle East

www.ft.com

Israel’s embassy in Mexico said it “regretted” the announcement by the Mexican government

vs

The Palestinian foreign ministry welcomed the referral

 

[ZEV]

Why are you still focusing on Hamas though?

Because you fail to understand that they are the cause of this conflict.

 

[sherb]

Good question.

The use of poison gas IS a war crime. Not sure if you can get prosecuted for using it on your own citizens though.

It was a big mistake waving that white flag. Those poor hostages obviously thought it would signal peaceful intentions to the IDF.

The IDF instead probably took it as Palestinians surrendering, so they did what they do best with Palestinians - kill first, make excuses later.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Because you fail to understand that they are the cause of this conflict.

It's no use blaming anyone now
- Ned Kelly

 

[ZEV]

It’s attitudes like that will never allow for peace. Go read a book.

The root cause of violence - violence that has existed long before Hamas ever existed, is Israel’s occupation of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

Only hardline Israelis and the United States military industrial complex think otherwise

Congratulations on being radicalised. Must have been a ripper book

 

[faible]

Only hardline Israelis

Congratulations on being radicalised. Must have been a ripper book

Didn’t take long

 

[sr36]

The request is also to investigate Hamas war crimes.

It's just not being reported in your posting.

What's to investigate. Hamas targeted and massacred civilians - it's undoubtedly a war crime.

 

[Number37]

Thanks for confirming you condone Hamas killing hundreds of Gazan civilians.

Quite notable in your response you can't bring yourself to condemn your heroic & peaceful Hamas resistance fighters for killing off hundreds of innocent Gazans.

You must be disappointed they didn't do a better job on Oct 7.

You keep saying that people support Hamas or condone what happened on October 7.
That is just you projecting... you are cheering on the slaughter of Palestinians so that you can steal their land.

 

[Number37]

We starting a smear campaign against Indonesia as well? So no country is allowed to question Israel at all?

Who are the ‘clean’ countries in your book that are allowed to question Israel?

Hope Indonesia doesn’t have an u19s cricket team!

It's nothing but another poor excuse that is used for no reason other than to attempt to justify the slaughter of children.
That is how Zionists operate.
They lie, They lie some more. Then they lie some more.
If they haven't lied enough, they lie some more.
Not surprising since the foundation of Zionism is fabricated history. ie lies.

 

[ZEV]

It's nothing but another poor excuse that is used for no reason other than to attempt to justify the slaughter of children.
That is how Zionists operate.
They lie, They lie some more. Then they lie some more.
If they haven't lied enough, they lie some.
Not surprising since the foundation of Zionism is fabricated history. ie lies.

From the other thread;


Gethelred closed the thread.

Notice he only quotes me as discussing Hamas conflict in that thread...

Anyway;

Upon Hamas surrender and return of hostages I call for the immediate cessation of Israeli military operations in Palestine.

I call for the arrest of any illegal settler (for the lack of better word) doing bad shit to Palestinians.

I call for the cessation of settler expansion.

I call for the removal of all Israeli settlers on Palestinian territory.

I call for an Israeli election.

I call for the immediate appropriate aid given to Gaza, drop bagels not bombs.

Zev

 

[faible]

Notice he only quotes me as discussing Hamas conflict in that thread...

Always the victim it seems. He must be antisemitic.

 

[ZEV]

What's to investigate. Hamas targeted and massacred civilians - it's undoubtedly a war crime.

Human shields
Continued targetting of civilians
Disguising military units
Use of medical facilities for military purposes
sexual violence and abuse
child soldiers

 

[ZEV]

Always the victim it seems. He must be antisemitic.

You called it. I'd be banned for drawing that conclusion

 

[sr36]

Arabic citizens of Golan Heights & East Jerusalem are also entitled to apply for citizenship.


While some aspects of Israel are not exactly progressive the facts bear out it isn't an outright apartheid state.

That's because they have acknowledged they've annexed Gollan Heights. The Arab populations are smaller there, so they can do it and remain a Jewish democratic state. Not the case with Gaza and West Bank, as the populations are too big.

But if they're anti a two state solution, which the government currently is - what is the situation in these territories? How does it differ to an apartheid regime with Palestinian "townships", ultimately policed by Israel with different laws and rights for the Arabs and Israelis who live in these territories.

 

[sr36]

Human shields
Continued targetting of civilians
Disguising military units
Use of medical facilities for military purposes
sexual violence and abuse
child soldiers

Fair point. So who are we going to make the demands to, re investigating these things? Wouldn't that be Israel with the power to let it all be investigated? Don't hold your breath.

 

[PieLebo87]

While I'm doing a bit of YouTubing tonight -

I don't want to disparage everyone who has put forward points in Israel's defence, but this exchange reminds me of this thread.

If you do give it a watch you will know what I mean. If you don't, I can't hold it against you. We're all busy people.

I saved this and finally got around to watching it today.

Brilliant viewing and so many great points made.

 

[ZEV]

Fair point. So who are we going to make the demands to, re investigating these things? Wouldn't that be Israel with the power to let it all be investigated? Don't hold your breath.

We can breathe freely. Mexico and Chile already have, a point that our mate Jimi was trying to conceal.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Human shields
Continued targetting of civilians
Disguising military units
Use of medical facilities for military purposes
sexual violence and abuse
child soldiers

Killing human shields is a war crime.

 

[Not Important]

this. and bibi big ears is just the leader of this immoral, callous, law unto-themselves outfit.

 

[Not Important]

yep! one state with equal rights and freedom.

 

[Not Important]

 

[JayJ20]

The request is also to investigate Hamas war crimes.

It's just not being reported in your posting.

The more important issue to investigate is Israeli war crimes in Gaza which can fall under ICC's jurisdiction. Most countries agree on Hamas' actions but Western countries continue to overlook war crimes committed by the Israeli government.

Mexico and Chile's request for an investigation will detail all war crimes committed by both parties under international law. Any findings of a war crime against Hamas is very unsurprising with very little consequence given most nations already deem them to be a terrorist organisation, but the ramifications for the Israeli government in conjunction with the other cases will be more severe.

The most important case however is the genocide case raised by South Africa. Indonesia, Mexico and Chile's respective cases in front of the ICJ/ICC aren't new. They've been accused of war crimes/illegal settlements long before October 7.

 

[ZEV]

Ok?

I’m giving you the credit of responding, which you rarely do (because it is tough to defend the indefensible I’ll give you that, also you’re a cry baby victim who cant hack their fundamental beliefs being challenged)

If you feel I need to clarify here you go- Hamas should be investigated for war crimes. All killing of civilians is immoral. Israel should allow for fully open and independent investigations in to what happened on October 7.

Israel are not allowing for that btw. I wonder why?

I barely respond?