Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[Crankyhawk]

These rantings, possibly shared before.

Are from an organisation which the Australian Jewish Association raises funds for:



The AJA raises funds for this movement, all over their website.

In my opinion, they're funding terrorism and should be locked up.

Time to report the AJA as a organisation supporting terrorism.

 

[Crankyhawk]

The AJA allows comments on their FB posts I believe. Would be interesting to to see what happened if a bunch of people began some anti israel conversations there.

You’d only get banned by their mods

 

[ZEV]

Maybe we could start a whatsapp group. What should it be called?

No way you would ban everyone from the group.

 

[Kurve]

You’d only get banned by their mods

I had a decent crack over their support for the NO campaign on twitter, I can still see them so wasn't banned.

 

[ferball]

Its posted in public (twitter), 'Jews like you' and the sending of the physical flag pin. But it would be a test of how the legislation operates from what I can tell at a quick look since this is more of an opinion from Ron Baumann then say this example.

Jones v Toben (includes explanatory memorandum) [2002] FCA 1150 (17 September 2002)

So according to you someone denying the holocaust is the equivalent of someone whose parents survived the Holocaust telling someone else their behaviour is vile and racist.

 

[ZEV]

Correct. But the actions of different religion or ethnic groups are treated differently, are they not?

For example, America can contribute towards killing a million Arabs = not terrorist act.

Israel can kill 20,000 women and children = not terrorist act.

Hamas kills almost 700 civilians = terrorist act.

See the hypocrisy?



Look past your emotive reaction and think about what I said, you’ll take less offence to it.

If Israel didn’t have the iron dome, and those rockets being fired from across the border did kill Israelis, their treatment of Palestinians and the whole 2 state solution would be different, am I wrong?

If your qualm is with the ‘taste of their own medicine’ part, I was responding to someone using a hypothetical of 20,000 Israelis being killed. You think it’s just that 20,000 Palestinian women and children have died?

The US Armed Forces are made up of many different religions and ethnic groups.

The IDF is made up of many different religions and ethnic groups.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

There is no hypocrisy.

Those rockets fired across the border have killed lots of Israeli's. The Iron Dome has only been there since 2011, it is a defensive countermeasure.

If it weren't there I dare say things would be much, much worse.

So now you are suggesting that not enough Israeli's have died? Are you for real?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

No way you would ban everyone from the group.

what makes you think I would send you an invite in the first place?

 

[faible]

The US Armed Forces are made up of many different religions and ethnic groups.

The IDF is made up of many different religions and ethnic groups.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

There is no hypocrisy.

Those rockets fired across the border have killed lots of Israeli's. The Iron Dome has only been there since 2011, it is a defensive countermeasure.

If it weren't there I dare say things would be much, much worse.

So now you are suggesting that not enough Israeli's have died? Are you for real?

Your outrage about hypothetical dead Israeli civilians but not actual dead Palestinian civilians is noted.

 

[PieLebo87]

The US Armed Forces are made up of many different religions and ethnic groups.

The IDF is made up of many different religions and ethnic groups.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

There is no hypocrisy.

Are you trying to differentiate them like it makes a difference?

Can I join the US or Israeli forces as an Australian?

You think Hamas is just Palestinians? Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

It doesn’t not make them terrorists. Just because the biased Australian government doesn’t have the kahonas, doesn’t mean alot of people don’t see them for what they really are now.

There are now plenty of US veterans and ex-IDF soldiers who agree with me and are talking out.

Democratic my arse.

Those rockets fired across the border have killed lots of Israeli's. The Iron Dome has only been there since 2011, it is a defensive countermeasure.

If it weren't there I dare say things would be much, much worse.

What’s your definition of ‘much, much worse’? Israel would’ve had to come to the table to negotiate a 2 state solution?

Of course it would be much different. That’s the point I was making originally that you’re arguing.

So now you are suggesting that not enough Israeli's have died? Are you for real?

You gotta stop playing victim Zev. Don’t even know how you got that opinion from anything I’ve said.

If only you felt this emotionally about ALL humans dying, instead of hypothetical Israeli ones.

 

[ZEV]

Your outrage about hypothetical dead Israeli civilians but not actual dead Palestinian civilians is noted.

You want more dead Israel’s as well?

 

[faible]

You want more dead Israel’s as well?

I want less civilians dead, Israeli and Palestinian.

 

[ferball]

No grievances, but I’m not a fool either.

As I said earlier -

Muslims = bad, terrorists etc.
White people/Zionists = white knights/saviours

They should make a Hollywood movie about it!

Is that the birth of a notion?

 

[Zidane98]

I want less civilians dead, Israeli and Palestinian.

Strange because I get the impression that as long as Hamas don't actually kill anyone with a rocket bombardment it's all ok for you.

IIRC you didn't show too much outrage when Hamas killed hundreds of their own citizens at the Al-Ahli hospital at the same time trying to murder hundreds of Israelis with their failed rocket attack.

 

[faible]

Strange because I get the impression that as long as Hamas don't actually kill anyone it's all ok for you.

IIRC you didn't show too much outrage when Hamas killed hundreds of their own citizens at the Al-Ahli hospital at the same time trying to murder hundreds of Israelis with their failed rocket attack.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation. I’ve said it many, many times.

 

[ZEV]

Hamas is a terrorist organisation. I’ve said it many, many times.

Your lack of outrage at Hamas killing Palestinians is noted.

 

[PieLebo87]

You want more dead Israel’s as well?

Your lack of outrage at Hamas killing Palestinians is noted.

Why are you choosing to go down this path when Israel has actually killed 20,000 Palestinian women and children in the last 3 months?

 

[ZEV]

Why are you choosing to go down this path when Israel has actually killed 20,000 Palestinian women and children in the last 3 months?

Just applying the owen87 standard.

Your outrage about hypothetical dead Israeli civilians but not actual dead Palestinian civilians is noted.

Your lack of outrage at Hamas killing Palestinians is noted.

 

[PieLebo87]

Just applying the owen87 standard.

It’s petty, and you’re above that.

 

[ZEV]

Are you trying to differentiate them like it makes a difference?

Can I join the US or Israeli forces as an Australian?

You think Hamas is just Palestinians? Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

It doesn’t not make them terrorists. Just because the biased Australian government doesn’t have the kahonas, doesn’t mean alot of people don’t see them for what they really are now.

There are now plenty of US veterans and ex-IDF soldiers who agree with me and are talking out.

Democratic my arse.



What’s your definition of ‘much, much worse’? Israel would’ve had to come to the table to negotiate a 2 state solution?

Of course it would be much different. That’s the point I was making originally that you’re arguing.



You gotta stop playing victim Zev. Don’t even know how you got that opinion from anything I’ve said.

If only you felt this emotionally about ALL humans dying, instead of hypothetical Israeli ones.

Look, I think your being a bit silly if you can't see the difference.

I don't even know if you can join the ADF as an Australian citizen. There is a selection criteria. That applies to the majority of countries and armies.

I don't know if everyone in Hamas is Palestinian. Hamas is a recognised terror organisation.

I don't know how to respond to your allegations about the democratically elected biased government, nor their apparent lack of testicular fortitude. Is there a governmental structure you think would work better than what we have now?

I'm sure there are lots of veterans across the world that agree with you. That's the beauty of democracy. If a Hamas member speaks up they get strung up in the streets of Gaza in front of a mob. But they are not terrorists.

I think you need to realise that in 2011 when the Iron Dome was implemented Hamas still had in their charter the destruction of Israel. How do you think that would have played out? Do you really think they were interested in a 2 state solution?

Saying you made a shit post is not "playing victim".

It's 10:00 pm, I'm dosed up on Lexapro and Valium. I couldn't be emotional even if i tried.

 

[ZEV]

It’s petty, and you’re above that.

You are right, it was a bad post.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I reckon you would so you could take cheap shots to make yourself feel like a big man to everyone else.

I reckon you would just play the victim. It wouldn't be much fun, punching down like that.

 

[ferball]

Strange because I get the impression that as long as Hamas don't actually kill anyone with a rocket bombardment it's all ok for you.

IIRC you didn't show too much outrage when Hamas killed hundreds of their own citizens at the Al-Ahli hospital at the same time trying to murder hundreds of Israelis with their failed rocket attack.

Where's your proof of this?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Oh what have we here.

 

[Zidane98]

Where's your proof of this?

Human Rights Watch says rocket misfire likely cause of deadly Gaza hospital blast

Human Rights Watch (HRW) said on Sunday that evidence suggested a misfired rocket was the likely cause of an explosion that resulted in heavy casualties at a hospital in Gaza on Oct. 17.

www.reuters.com

This one's particularly good which shows 4 different videos simultaneously & the rocket failure on camera:

New AP analysis of last month's deadly Gaza hospital explosion rules out widely cited video

The Associated Press is publishing an updated visual analysis of the deadly Oct. 17 explosion at Gaza’s Al-Ahli Hospital.

apnews.com

It is telling that the Gazan health ministry has gone completely quiet on the death toll after initially announcing nearly 500 dead and the hospital levelled (clearly not true) shortly after the attack.

Hamas "promised" they would show proof of an Israeli bomb. Until days after the disaster when all of a sudden "there was no munitions left"

Hamas Fails to Make Case That Israel Struck Hospital (Published 2023)

A senior Hamas official says “nothing is left” of the munition that hit the Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza City last week, killing hundreds. Israel says the explosion was caused by a misfired Palestinian rocket.

www.nytimes.com

Hamas kills Palestinian citizens all the time through failed rocket attacks.

This one was particularly tragic is hundreds of Palestinians were accidentally killed in the process of Hamas trying to murder hundreds of Israelis.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Human Rights Watch says rocket misfire likely cause of deadly Gaza hospital blast

Human Rights Watch (HRW) said on Sunday that evidence suggested a misfired rocket was the likely cause of an explosion that resulted in heavy casualties at a hospital in Gaza on Oct. 17.

www.reuters.com

This one's particularly good which shows 4 different videos simultaneously & the rocket failure on camera:

New AP analysis of last month's deadly Gaza hospital explosion rules out widely cited video

The Associated Press is publishing an updated visual analysis of the deadly Oct. 17 explosion at Gaza’s Al-Ahli Hospital.

apnews.com

It is telling that the Gazan health ministry has gone completely quiet on the death toll after initially announcing nearly 500 dead and the hospital levelled (clearly not true) shortly after the attack.

Hamas "promised" they would show proof of an Israeli bomb. Until days after the disaster when all of a sudden "there was no munitions left"

Hamas Fails to Make Case That Israel Struck Hospital (Published 2023)

A senior Hamas official says “nothing is left” of the munition that hit the Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza City last week, killing hundreds. Israel says the explosion was caused by a misfired Palestinian rocket.

www.nytimes.com

Hamas kills Palestinian citizens all the time through failed rocket attacks.

This one was particularly tragic is hundreds of Palestinians were accidentally killed in the process of Hamas trying to murder hundreds of Israelis.

I've lost count. How many hospitals have Israel deliberately blown up?