Is the 2023 Premiership team weakest of the past 3 since 1958

[Robroy22]

Agree. But 1958 was a great time to be on BigFooty. I remember fondly trolling the Demon’s board back when they were relevant. In those days their match day threads would often run into multiple pages. We used to wonder whether Hawthorn would ever win a flag. And on our board the Sack Kyne thread was epic.
Good times.

OK....now I feel really old cos I was there!

 

[vjknight]

OK....now I feel really old cos I was there!

So were your grandchildren.

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[vjknight]

Yes as others have said, odd thread. For decades of my youth it seemed we'd never win one, despite playing in many.

They were all special in their own ways. Great players, good players, lucky players, WHO CARES. THEY DELIVERED.

While we await the next one, celebrate the failure of those other clubs (no names) who can't win one, let alone qualify, let alone make finals.

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[Scodog10]

I would classify the 3 premierships in 3 different ways and if you agreed with the classifications then it probably comes down to personal preference. I rate it as:

2010: most talented
1990: most killer instinct
2023: most workmanlike

Of the three 2023 was clearly the most difficult, but also the weakest, IMO. What 2023 has taught me is that golden eras where clubs string 2 or 3 together are damn tough and you only need to be marginally off to fall back in the pack.

For example we all rave about sitting pretty as the best in it last year, but we had 4 matches where we had to do what Sydney did last week in order to win (Adelaide x2, AD and Port). This year we’ve had one of those go our way. We’ve also had 4 matches with 4 goal plus leads in the last Q where clubs came at us late (Hawthorn, Carlton, Sydney and Fremantle) and we’re 2-1-1 in those matches vs the 100% win rate last year (Geelong and Dees). We’ve lost that magic for whatever reason that saw us separate ourselves in close ones and it will cost us a top 4 spot.

This group rides the ebb and flow of a match much more than the other two because they don’t have the talent or killer instinct which would result in them turning those 4 goal leads into 8 goal wins. The one point I’d make though is that the extra 5 weeks off, compared to last year, will do more for this group than any top draft pick or star trade ever could!

 

[doofdoof]

View attachment 2078159
There's a lot of class footballers in this (1990 GF) side - it goes way beyond a top 6. It's not just 'nostalgia' that make those who've been around for a while like myself rate it highly, and I think 'recency bias' may be coming into play with people rating the last couple of flag teams above it! Maybe there's 3 or so in the 1990 side who you could say were just blue-collar types (Tony Shaw was certainly in the hard-working rather than brilliant category, but since he's in our TotC he can be excused!), but I remember them as a team with a lot of top quality players. I don't think our falling away after 1990 had much to do with a lack of ability of those players.

Gayfer and Kerro were blue collar types, but played crucial stopping roles when the game style was different.

Daicos, Brown, Millane, McGuane, Morwood and Kelly would have all been walk up starts in the 2023 team.

Shaw, Francis, Banks, Barwick, Christian, Monkey, Russell, Wright, Starcevitch, Turner and Crosisca would all have good chances to replace their positional equivalents.

Manson wasn't a great ruckman and couldn't kick, but was the original mobile around the ground marking focal point.

Gayfer and Kerro wouldn't fit the modern game.

 

[cfc19902010]

2010 easily ..2011 was even better and didn't win ..those teams used to bash up most teams ..they thrashed Geelong in prelim bulldogs in qualifying and saints in replay ..superstars in swan pendles daisy Didak shaw and Cloke if he'd kicked straight

 

[Carlthetruth]

What a thread! Welldone to the author, I guess if you don't rate a flag you hand it back? Fug me! A premiership cup is exactly the same in any era.

 

[black is White]

The competition has gotten a lot weaker and the upper class talent way more diluted. For example the saints Kilda team that never won one GF who we beat in 2010 has a better list on paper than any current AFL side. I'd argue even the Bulldogs team from a year or 2 before that who never made a GF were a better side than what we see today. You can downgrade what 2023 magpies did but it's hard to argue there will never be a more exciting run to a premiership ever again. People have short memories teams were scared that we were still in games despite being beaten and evidently we'd overrun them was guaranteed. Opposition haters try to make out it was all luck and untenable which is just them coping. A lot of people are going to be very upset when we are around the mark again next year competing for another premiership.

 

[steviewonder36]

What a thread! Welldone to the author, I guess if you don't rate a flag you hand it back? Fug me! A premiership cup is exactly the same in any era.

Thats not what I said you peanut, I was at the game last year, being there cannot be replaced.

I am comparing the 3 GFs since 1958.

Given how many times I have seen us lose in my lifetime, the hurt is very deep. Especially 79-81.

I suspect the younger supporters might only remember 2010 and 2023 in this thread.

That 1990 team was one of our best ever given what they achieved after all the failures since 1958.

2010 was the most talented, (2011 should have won on paper too).

Players like Frampton should feel very lucky to have a medal.

 

[Kes1984]

A team of mostly role players doing their jobs, not relying too heavily on stars. I prefer that any day of the week

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

We spent basically the whole season on top of the ladder and then won all three finals last year - Both 1990 and 2010 DREW A FINAL! Neither are qualified to be considered better than last year's team.

 

[dansa]

My view is that during the 2022-2024 period we have never had the best list in the competition. The coaching and club culture is what has got us over the line for a 16th Premiership.

I'm extra grateful for the 2023 flag for this reason. We exceeded expectations.

 

[Magpie Since 1986]

For those saying 2023 was a struggle compared to ''90 and ''10.....the 2023 was the only side to win every final we played.

 

[WakeUpPies]

2010 looks good in hindsight but we honestly would have lost the original had it gone on for 5 more minutes. Most of our players (especially Swanny) had stage fright and Goddard/Hayes were dominant. The shining light on the day was Daisy who was massive and would have won the Norm if it was based on both games.

Luckily we got the wobbles out of our system for the replay!

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

The shining light on the day was Daisy who was massive and would have won the Norm if it was based on both games.

Darren Jolly is the other one who has an argument, with Steele lagging a little behind those two.

 

[black is White]

Thats not what I said you peanut, I was at the game last year, being there cannot be replaced.

I am comparing the 3 GFs since 1958.

Given how many times I have seen us lose in my lifetime, the hurt is very deep. Especially 79-81.

I suspect the younger supporters might only remember 2010 and 2023 in this thread.

That 1990 team was one of our best ever given what they achieved after all the failures since 1958.

2010 was the most talented, (2011 should have won on paper too).

Players like Frampton should feel very lucky to have a medal.

It's a pretty crappy thread mate. You'd expect it to come from Carlton supporters!

 

[domus]

In terms of talent and skill, 2010 is still the best one I feel.

1990 was the most memorable though, because it broke the drought.

But, I feel players like Frampton, Mrakov, Ginnivan and Lipinksi should feel very lucky to have premiership medals.

Sure, Ginny has been great at Hawthorn this year, but he had no consistency when playing for the Pies, and his GF performance was poor.

Every premiership team has similar players- Macaffer, Blair, Wellingham and Toovey in 2010. Jamie Turner, Kerrison, Gayfer in 1990.

 

[augie]

Have to remember when comparing 1990 to the others is that you are looking at 2 or 3 less players at the bottom end. So comparing 1990 to 2023 you drop out the 3 worst 2023 players and compare. Makes 2023 look stronger for mine.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Oh please......elaborate on "The 1990 side was a lot of tough blue collar tryers and not a tonne of genuine class/talent."
and " I reckon there's a looooot of overrated footballers in that 1990 side. But it's easy to let the top end make you forget that.".......c'mon let us all know how overrated they were?

Or at least who.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Every premiership team has similar players- Macaffer, Blair, Wellingham and Toovey in 2010. Jamie Turner, Kerrison, Gayfer in 1990.

I feel like I'm always going to give the Toovey & Gayfer types a pass - They're just solid defensive types tasked with doing a thankless job and I feel like teams usually need them.

We have an unusually mercurial side devoid of guys who live for nothing but to shut down an opponent, but on Grand Final day at least, Billy Frampton lived up to that spirit with his first half on Harris Andrews.