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Despite the clear fascist ties and sympathies of Elon Musk that some want to paper over, and the threat that poses to not just America but global politics, it's easy to forget why Trump was able to take control of the Republican Party and win re-election with relative ease. I think this is an informed take on where that support came from and why, especially amongst the working poor (and a lesson for Australian politics as well):

Screenshot 2025-01-21 at 6.57.17 pm.png
 
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pstew2dstew said:
You are correct i know there are people who fit the descriptions on both sides, every team has their fringe. What % of people of the Trump supporter base do you believe are actually "Nazis"


I'm going to guess less than 1%. What do you think?
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What percentage of people who perform a Nazi salute on stage do you think are Nazis?
 
glitch01 said:
Just had this pop up…..
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See here's the thing, these are actually cases of:
PortWTF said:
It's always good to be wary of photos showing Nazi salutes because it may have been bad timing.
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Obama is raising his hand to indicate something getting higher.
Harris was waving.
Hilary is waving.

Colbert was literally taking the piss out of Nazi's saluting.

Generally a "my heart goes out to all of you" is a sweeping gesture. Not the sharp, jabbing motion done by the South African Apartheid billionaire whose maternal grandparents were sympathisers with Adolf Hitler's Nazi party during World War 2. Nevermind that his maternal grand parents also moved to South Africa from Canada because they were fans of the Apartheid regime.

And its totally a coincidence that his mother fled South Africa with him back to Canada, so he could dodge compolsury military service around the same time that Apartheid ended.

Elon's Dad talking about his Mom's family
 

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OneGreatClub said:
It is sounding all too familiar to be coincidence.

www.nationalww2museum.org

How Did Adolf Hitler Happen?

Adolf Hitler was appointed chancellor of Germany in 1933 following a series of electoral victories by the Nazi Party. He ruled absolutely until his death by suicide in April 1945.
www.nationalww2museum.org www.nationalww2museum.org

Adolf Hitler (April 20, 1889 - April 30, 1945) was appointed chancellor of Germany in 1933 following a series of electoral victories by the Nazi Party. He ruled absolutely until his death by suicide in April 1945. Upon achieving power, Hitler smashed the nation’s democratic institutions and transformed Germany into a war state intent on conquering Europe for the benefit of the so-called Aryan race. His invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939, triggered the European phase of World War II. During the course of the war, Nazi military forces rounded up and executed 11 million victims they deemed inferior or undesirable—“life unworthy of life”—among them Jews, Slavs, homosexuals, and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Hitler had supreme authority as führer (leader or guide), but could not have risen to power or committed such atrocities on his own. He had the active support of the powerful German officer class and of millions of everyday citizens who voted for the National Socialist German Workers’ (Nazi) Party and hailed him as a national savior in gigantic stadium rallies.

Hitler, a mesmerizing public speaker, addressed political meetings in Munich calling for a new German order to replace what he saw as an incompetent and inefficient democratic regime. This New Order was distinguished by an authoritarian political system based on a leadership structure in which authority flowed downward from a supreme national leader.
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What you post is correct but there is more to the rise of Hitler than his public image. Hitler traded on the situation that the average German found themselves in. Record unemployment, unbelievably high inflation and above all The Treaty of Versailles and subsequent war reparations provided the backdrop for the Nazi rise to power. When you look at the film footage of the times and those Nuremberg rallies there are huge crowds swept up in a nationalistic fervor all giving the Nazi salute. I often ask myself what I would have done if I were a German trying to eke out an existence in the Weimar republic and along came an Adolf Hitler promising to fix my problems.

While it is true to say that elements of the German High command supported Hitler we need to remember that in 1925 the Nazis formed the SS and the SD and by 1933 membership of the SS had risen to 209,000. With this level of support Hitler did not have to rely on military support as he had his own army. With over 200,000 para military thugs enforcing Hitler's unprecedented racial hatred the average German probably felt that showing public support for the Nazis was a good idea.

At the outset of World War I one US dollar bought around 3 German Deutschmarks but by 1922 the exchange rate was around 180 Deutschmarks to the US Dollar. At the outset of the Great Depression in 1929 there were 2 million Germans unemployed but by 1933 the figure had soared to 6 million. It was against this hyperinflation and mass unemployment that Adolf Hitler was eventually elected to power.

I am not trying to apologise for Adolf Hiter but there were compelling reasons for his rise. No such reasons exist in the US. In 1933 Germany was full of scared and hungry people in 2024 the US was full of dumb people.
 
Festerz said:
Despite the clear fascist ties and sympathies of Elon Musk that some want to paper over, and the threat that poses to not just America but global politics, it's easy to forget why Trump was able to take control of the Republican Party and win re-election with relative ease. I think this is an informed take on where that support came from and why, especially amongst the working poor (and a lesson for Australian politics as well):

View attachment 2208400
Click to expand...



What establishment left? Where is this left that is established in power? It literally doesn’t exist.

Are they referring to Joe Biden and the democrats , a centre right wing party?
 
PortWTF said:
Was Musks gesture a Nazi salute?
Was he wearing a Nazi armband at the time? No? Then no. Yes? Then yes.
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From the ABC website

But the American Defamation League [ADL], which fights antisemitism in the US, said it seemed more like "an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm".
"[It was] not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate that people are on edge," the ADL wrote on X.

You see, it wasn't a Nazi salute because it was done by Elon Musk, and he wasn't wearing a swastika on his arm. Sans swastika, had he also said "Heil Hitler", then that would also count. Minus either of those, definitely not a Nazi salute.
 
It was a very deliberate gesture, I had my doubts until watching it myself

Sure he's awkward and apparently on the spectrum but I think he just crossed the line between dog-whistling the way Trump would and an overt nod to the ultra-right

He probably was playing how far can I push this like he does in just about everything, and went too far
 
philthy05 said:
What establishment left?...
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As much as I often forget, BF is not a lecture theatre where complex ideas can be reasonably discussed. It's almost always a mistake to repost 280 character limited twitter/x posts where individual words or phrases in them become the pivot point for pointless debate without context. So forgive me if I fail to respond to your specific comment.

But if you are seriously interested in the issues raised in that X post I linked then I recommend the the two enthralling books of the former BBC US-based political journalist Nick Bryant (now resident in Australia) which go to great lengths of explaining the history behind Trump's rise to power and his control of the Republican Party - which (as the party of Abraham Lincoln) was once the political party of 'liberal' thinking and standing up for the rights of the underclass.





Brant is now turning his hand to Australian political history and I look at what he has to say on that.
 
raptalia said:
What you post is correct but there is more to the rise of Hitler than his public image. Hitler traded on the situation that the average German found themselves in. Record unemployment, unbelievably high inflation and above all The Treaty of Versailles and subsequent war reparations provided the backdrop for the Nazi rise to power. When you look at the film footage of the times and those Nuremberg rallies there are huge crowds swept up in a nationalistic fervor all giving the Nazi salute. I often ask myself what I would have done if I were a German trying to eke out an existence in the Weimar republic and along came an Adolf Hitler promising to fix my problems.

While it is true to say that elements of the German High command supported Hitler we need to remember that in 1925 the Nazis formed the SS and the SD and by 1933 membership of the SS had risen to 209,000. With this level of support Hitler did not have to rely on military support as he had his own army. With over 200,000 para military thugs enforcing Hitler's unprecedented racial hatred the average German probably felt that showing public support for the Nazis was a good idea.

At the outset of World War I one US dollar bought around 3 German Deutschmarks but by 1922 the exchange rate was around 180 Deutschmarks to the US Dollar. At the outset of the Great Depression in 1929 there were 2 million Germans unemployed but by 1933 the figure had soared to 6 million. It was against this hyperinflation and mass unemployment that Adolf Hitler was eventually elected to power.

I am not trying to apologise for Adolf Hiter but there were compelling reasons for his rise. No such reasons exist in the US. In 1933 Germany was full of scared and hungry people in 2024 the US was full of dumb people.
Click to expand...
Trump knew it would work on Americans and has fed and fostered this rise for years. A good proportion of the US population believe in fantasies, trust evangelical preachers ripping them off. Ripe for the picking.
 
Festerz said:
As much as I often forget, BF is not a lecture theatre where complex ideas can be reasonably discussed. It's almost always a mistake to repost 280 character limited twitter/x posts where individual words or phrases in them become the pivot point for pointless debate without context. So forgive me if I fail to respond to your specific comment.

But if you are seriously interested in the issues raised in that X post I linked then I recommend the the two enthralling books of the former BBC US-based political journalist Nick Bryant (now resident in Australia) which go to great lengths of explaining the history behind Trump's rise to power and his control of the Republican Party - which (as the party of Abraham Lincoln) was once the political party of 'liberal' thinking and standing up for the rights of the underclass.





Brant is now turning his hand to Australian political history and I look at what he has to say on that.
Click to expand...

Yes I have had this book on hold for awhile
 

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