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We need to invest time on field in TDK now. Pitt is solid back up at best. Let Tom grow with this young midfield exponentially. They can’t lay together!!!
Opinion First Choice Ruck - Pitto vs TDK
- Thread starter Justnetime
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gab213
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No they won’t. We can’t carry two ruckmen in the best 22 who comprise our speed and ball movement. Choose one, TDK for me, and develop options (GSOS, Cripps, H etc] to chop out. Pitto is a lion hearted, very limited option.
Gotta be TDK when fit. He's had enough time in the system to take on the lead ruck role now. Still needs a bit of size and to work on his craft, but it's time to step up next season.
Justnetime
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The reason why this debate carries on is both options aren’t favourable. It’s our weakest on field position and carrying potentially two in the 22 really hurts us.
Ultimately, one is still mentally and physically a little boy who can jump and has skill, and the other an aggressive but slow moving object with little skill.
Jeez I was harsh there. The only one I personally feel has upside is TDK.
Im also hoping on Mirkov in the background.
I think if we play a top rucking side it is TDK. If it is a weak ruck side then use Pitto to rest TDKs developing giraffe body. Aside from that, if it is a tank ruckman, also play Pitto.
Ultimately, one is still mentally and physically a little boy who can jump and has skill, and the other an aggressive but slow moving object with little skill.
Jeez I was harsh there. The only one I personally feel has upside is TDK.
Im also hoping on Mirkov in the background.
I think if we play a top rucking side it is TDK. If it is a weak ruck side then use Pitto to rest TDKs developing giraffe body. Aside from that, if it is a tank ruckman, also play Pitto.
Dramoth
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TDK... Kreuzer is working heavily with him to turn him into Tractor v2. We saw bits and pieces of it last season, but I reckon it will all come together this year.
TDK weighed in at just over 100kg last season. So he has the weight for the #1 ruck spot... we just need to play him in it.
TDK weighed in at just over 100kg last season. So he has the weight for the #1 ruck spot... we just need to play him in it.
4flagsin5yrs
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Inept?
He did as much as TDK forward last season.
The pendulum can swing quickly when the midfield started delivering better quality balls I50?
The bloke's only played 33 senior AFL games so far!
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I agree, we cannot play 2 ruckman AND the 3 tall forwards in the same side. The same goes for the people who want to play TDK (or Pitto) and Harry/Charlie/Gov/JSOS - it just doesn't work.
I think long-term TDK will be the better ruck, but you have to agree that Pitto was actually better last year than most acknowledge. Up forward you have Harry, Charlie and JSOS with Gov down back as a 3rd tall (had him there even before the Jones saga).
In terms of a chop out for TDK/Pitto, I'd have JSOS at centre bounces, Cripps at stoppages in the middle of the ground (maybe some F50 too), Harry taking most stoppages in the F50, and Young/OMac taking stoppages in our D50 (but only when their direct opponent is also rucking).
It's a little messy, but at least it doesn't compromise our speed and ball movement.
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I don't think Pitto was better than expected at all. He was serviceable and that's is what I expected. His inability to get to marling contests, particularly down back was frustrating.
I think it depends who we play against. I would go TDK for the more athletic rucks and Pittonet for the strong lumbering types. Would be hesitant to play them both given neither is effective at another position. TDK could be the permanent no.1 ruck if he puts on more size over this preseason so that he doesnt get bullied by the Gawn/Goldstein types.
Will be interesting to see how we use our rucks as well. Do we play them in a defensive role as Richmond did so successfully in their premierships or do we push them forward more like Melbourne did in their premiership year?
Pittonet you would use purely defensively and rest him on the bench. DeKoning I would like to see used defensively as well but rested in the forward pocket.
I wouldn't worry too much about DeKoning getting bullied by Gawn/Goldstein types. In the not too distant future they are going to come up against him and he's going to be too young and athletic for them. He just needs to gain experience playing against them. Remember he hasn't had a proper preseason yet so he's never been very fit.
The thing about these big ruckmen is that they need to be kept honest. If they sit behind the play and drop into defence then DeKoning is going to need to know how to get dangerous and play as a key forward and make them defend. If they push forward we need to fix our problem with not having a third tall defender and a short arse backline to deal with that.
Pittonet you would use purely defensively and rest him on the bench. DeKoning I would like to see used defensively as well but rested in the forward pocket.
I wouldn't worry too much about DeKoning getting bullied by Gawn/Goldstein types. In the not too distant future they are going to come up against him and he's going to be too young and athletic for them. He just needs to gain experience playing against them. Remember he hasn't had a proper preseason yet so he's never been very fit.
The thing about these big ruckmen is that they need to be kept honest. If they sit behind the play and drop into defence then DeKoning is going to need to know how to get dangerous and play as a key forward and make them defend. If they push forward we need to fix our problem with not having a third tall defender and a short arse backline to deal with that.
thylacine60
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not all typos is spuds.......
hes 24.6% in other games
35% in the gc game
20 hitouts to adv in GC game
55 in all other games
its not insignificant
The Old Dark Navy's
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24.6% is compared to his 27% average for the year. It's not that significant.
Then let's look take away outlier games of other ruckmen if you want to be fair.
We have had this convo, yes inept. Most of his goals are from drifting forward, not resting there
Justnetime
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It isn’t just that one game. I think there were two other lucky games for him where he got easy matchups. When up against some quality of Nicnat and Grundy he was completely destroyed. Note, I’m not saying TDK wasn’t destroyed. I’m just saying Pittos strengths in this debate are stat lies.
The Old Dark Navy's
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This is what I'm saying though. All the ruckman he is compared to have had games where they have lucked out opponent wise. Draper faced off against Blicavs for example. They have all had games where they went up against the number 2 or 3 ruckman.
4flagsin5yrs
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Indeed, and happy to highlight your error again.
Pitto has:
more score involvements
more tackles I50
more I50s
Tom has more upside - no one argues that - but your inept call is facile.
Sam Draper?
I could go on.....
Marc Pittonet and Tom De Koning AFL Stats Comparison
Marc Pittonet and Tom De Koning AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
Pitto has:
more score involvements
more tackles I50
more I50s
Tom has more upside - no one argues that - but your inept call is facile.
Sam Draper?
Marc Pittonet and Sam Draper AFL Stats Comparison
Marc Pittonet and Sam Draper AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
I could go on.....
You really are stats inept
TDK more goals I see
More inside 50s only highlights that Pitto has spent more time in the ruck
Inside 50 tackles of .1 v 0? Laughable
But back to the original claim, Pitto is inept forward, not only did he average less goals ( as also highlighted by you) most of Pittos goals was from drifting forward, not resting there
Inside 50 Marks - TDK .9, Pitto .5
Before "going on" try and refute/debate the original statement
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4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
You're easy. And predictable.
You quote goals - a 0.1 difference then slam me for a stat with a similar difference.
Drifting or resting - semantics.....
In fact if he was only 'drifting' yet kicked essentially the same number of goals.....
I don't think you understand the meaning of a strawman argument, but carry on.
And the numbers don't even support your position.
Not semantics at all, TDK also has more marks inside 50, as well as more goals, pretty clear cut who is more dangerous resting forward
Should we go on?
The simple season comparisons for TDK and Pitto are flawed. They overlapped, there were games that Pitto was #1 ruck and TDK just pinch hit, plus there was at least 1 game where TDK went off really early. Both of those things skew numbers for Tom.
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
That is not the argument.
Your claim is Pitto is inept as a forward.
No one disputes TDK is better up front, so what?
So my statement still stands, Pitto is inept forward, even when you compare him to TDK.
Yet you roll out stats/comparisons trying to refute the claim and failed
Then made another bold claim that you could "go on" with more information/facts
I would like to see TDK get a full preseason and not have an interrupted season. Seems the last 3 years he has been coming back mid season. Watched him mark everything in the 2s against the Tigers before round 1 and then injury his knee. He is always playing catch up from a fitness perspective.
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