Autopsy 2024 Elimination Final Blues blown away in first half. Never looked likely.

[Blue_Fusion]

Understatement of the year.

IF TDK was good to go - then why was he a sub?
IF things weren't working why was Kennedy picked as the best player to bench to bring on TDK?
IF ZORKO was always going to be their playmaker - who was physically capable of shutting him down and why didn't they and if it wasn't Cincotta who was it going to be?

We always new their ruckman was a key to clearances. How could Pittonet be so PATHETIC for SO LONG?

This was always going to be a hard one to win - but it seems to me Voss was happy to play the risk card and roll the dice on players he wanted to perform - and didn't. BUT worse to me was his match day mismatches all over the park but especially ZORKO.

The game showed up what Carlton's achilles heel has been all year=- and that is a dysfunctional forward line made up of blokes who can't stop good opposition walking the ball out at will. Motlop/Durdin/Fantasia/Williams lost the game for Carlton by inept forward fifty defensive efforts. helped along magnificently by an inept Pittonet.

So definitely for mine - serious question marks about selection logic are fair to put on the table as well as game day decision making - injury interrupted season doesn't explain a 60 point SMASHING in the first half.

UNACCEPTABLE - failures in too many areas resulting in an embarrassing capitulation DISGUSTING end to a repeat awful season of injury plagued RUBBISH.

The only good thing to come out of it is that NO ONE can HIDE from the serious FAILS on display in the last game of the season - NO ONE.

/end rant.

If we get more of the same in terms of selection next year, no improvement in tactics, little done in the off season to address our list deficiencies... would you say it would be time to move on from Voss? Or do you prefer we see out his contract then move on?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Shines on return? Clearly written by a Carlton tragic. He was OK.

Brought to tears when addressing Docherty?

FFS, he should be brought to tears with that pea hearted, fundamentally pathetic performance...

Top 4 regularly is where we want to be and work to make sure that happens... meh

 

[doormat73]

The vice-president captained Victoria a couple of times. Has a good footy resume.

who?

Official AFL Website of the Carlton Football Club

The official AFL website of the Carlton Football Club.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[TheReal99prelim]

I’d expect the board to.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'd like a panel that consisted of the late Wes Lofts, the late John Elliott, Rhys Jones, John Nicholls and Fraser Brown to go through the season with him one game at a time

 

[jpfalvo]

We lost to a Bulldogs team without Naughton, Treloar and Jones so I don’t think everything can be pinned on injuries.

Selections started to go awry around about this time too. In the bulldogs game we got so many things wrong:

• Hewett not selected at all and MK the sub leaving an under done Cerra to play significant midfield minutes against one of the best midfields in the comp.
• two ruckman against English who isn’t a crash and bash and a fast team generally was a mistake. If TDK was under an injury cloud after the GWS game then he shouldn’t have played and Pitto should have gone alone against English.
• rushed Marchbank back in after very limited reserves footy when the right choice to replace Gov was probably Young.
• Charlie was banged up after the GWS, so maybe he could’ve been rested this game and Kemp given a trial up forward against the dogs who not had 2 tall forwards for the game.

Of course it’s not all on Voss and injuries played a part (Williams did his hammy mid game) as did poor play generally (Boyd was terrible this game and Charlie kicked 3.7). So as always a combination of factors led to our demise, but it was disappointing that the team selection element seemed self inflicted.

Weird selection started for the Richmond game....

TDK off his Geelong game, rest, 1 week after a bye?

Name 1 top team that rests a mid 20s player just about to breakout with 10 weeks of footy to go.

They sold that one to us about how he had to be protected from big body Nankervis?

But played versus big body Briggs?

Weird.

If its to give him a rest...why 1 week after a bye? Why mess with his form and continuity?

We hadnt locked away top2, let alone top4.

Hubris to me.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[Stamos]

Weird selection started for the Richmond game....

TDK off his Geelong game, rest, 1 week after a bye?

Name 1 top team that rests a mid 20s player just about to breakout with 10 weeks of footy to go.

They sold that one to us about how he had to be protected from big body Nankervis?

But played versus big body Briggs?

Weird.

If its to give him a rest...why 1 week after a bye? Why mess with his form and continuity?

We hadnt locked away top2, let alone top4.

Hubris to me.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

It wasn’t a ‘rest’.
He was clearly sore.
The problem wasn’t TDK not playing in the Richmond game, it was the week later when coming up against Briggs we dropped Pitto, who had a good game against Richmond, to play a still sore TDK.
And then followed that up with trying 2 rucks against English.

 

[JustaBattler]

If we get more of the same in terms of selection next year, no improvement in tactics, little done in the off season to address our list deficiencies... would you say it would be time to move on from Voss? Or do you prefer we see out his contract then move on?

Look we just don't know what the reasons are for anything looking in from the outside. All we know is that the team finished its season disgracefully - which as I've stated above- is just unacceptable.

It is up to the Club to fix stuff - all we do on here is speculate and vent.

My preference is to also have continuity in coaching - at least to end of contractual term.

As for list management - we need to invest in youth and develop it whilst getting rid of the perennially injured and at the same time improve the list with trades to plug the obvious holes as much as possible. It is a tough gig - but let's not waste precious capital on second talls who are never on the park I mean OIscar McDonald followed by Same Durdin - 4 years of wasted space - cant b e making silly decisions like that.

 

[timbertron]

Look we just don't know what the reasons are for anything looking in from the outside. All we know is that the team finished its season disgracefully - which as I've stated above- is just unacceptable.

I would argue that the clubs issues were laid bare over the last 8 weeks. Playing underdone veterans, not rewarding young players who clearly performed well in the 2's, a game plan that for 3 seasons now just does not hold up over the course of a full season, terrible match ups on the field like not putting Cincotta on Zorko, poor sub choices, poor tactics like playing a spare in defence from the opening bounce playing right into one of Brisbane's strengths and exacerbating one of our weaknesses of continually blasting long kicks down the wing to be easily marked by Brisbane defenders.

It was an appalling 2 months from the footy department and if they don't make changes we will finish 10th-6th in 2025 based purely on talent with another inconsistent and wasted season.

I'm getting some really strong Ratten vibes from Voss. He talks about "squad mentality" but his actions shows he values talent over best fit for a strong squad approach.

Four years is long enough.

 

[LanceRomance]

Lucky its best of three

Teams released in two nights

 

[GoBlues!]

Understatement of the year.

IF TDK was good to go - then why was he a sub?
IF things weren't working why was Kennedy picked as the best player to bench to bring on TDK?
IF ZORKO was always going to be their playmaker - who was physically capable of shutting him down and why didn't they and if it wasn't Cincotta who was it going to be?

We always new their ruckman was a key to clearances. How could Pittonet be so PATHETIC for SO LONG?

This was always going to be a hard one to win - but it seems to me Voss was happy to play the risk card and roll the dice on players he wanted to perform - and didn't. BUT worse to me was his match day mismatches all over the park but especially ZORKO.

The game showed up what Carlton's achilles heel has been all year=- and that is a dysfunctional forward line made up of blokes who can't stop good opposition walking the ball out at will. Motlop/Durdin/Fantasia/Williams lost the game for Carlton by inept forward fifty defensive efforts. helped along magnificently by an inept Pittonet.

So definitely for mine - serious question marks about selection logic are fair to put on the table as well as game day decision making - injury interrupted season doesn't explain a 60 point SMASHING in the first half.

UNACCEPTABLE - failures in too many areas resulting in an embarrassing capitulation DISGUSTING end to a repeat awful season of injury plagued RUBBISH.

The only good thing to come out of it is that NO ONE can HIDE from the serious FAILS on display in the last game of the season - NO ONE.

/end rant.

Not suggesting Voss gets replaced, but f**k me someone needs to review the thinking and decision making over the last two months, and the selections that led to the team we put out on Saturday.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

And what happens when u constantly changing players?

after 3 years? Nothing.

After 3 years with a squad the system should be so fukcing clear that everyone slots in and out without fuss.

These weren't guys playing together for the first time. That excuse doesn't fly for the team that was picked.

After 3 years with a team from 16s to 18s to 21s all first div it literally didn't matter who was injured. Trust confidence composure FUNDAMENTALS and a really system that doesn't just rely on the resident freaks to be freakish.

 

[plentyblckie]

after 3 years? Nothing.

After 3 years with a squad the system should be so fukcing clear that everyone slots in and out without fuss.

These weren't guys playing together for the first time. That excuse doesn't fly for the team that was picked.

After 3 years with a team from 16s to 18s to 21s all first div it literally didn't matter who was injured. Trust confidence composure FUNDAMENTALS and a really system that doesn't just rely on the resident freaks to be freakish.

What u think the game plan stays the same for 3 yrs?

 

[haveago]

He bolded Kennedy and Cerra...

Why would Walsh be the last?

TDK, Cripps, Weitering and Charlie are the only untouchables as far as I'm concerned.

Walsh or Harry for the right deal... I'd consider.

I don't buy into the ripping the heart out of the club stuff...

Dogs traded their captain and won a flag 2 years later...

Pies traded Grundy and Treloar... won a flag 2 years later...

Walsh will be our next Captain .

He is heart and soul Calrton and hopefully six months will give him time to fully recover
from the back that clearly hampered him this season.

 

[Sector 7G]

Horrendous performance across the board, starting in the middle with our leaders.

For all the criticism on selection it is highly unlikely it would have made one iota of difference.
Cincotta, while should have been selected, hasn't been in great form since the middle of the year.
Lord and Binns weren't going to give us more than Doc and Cerra in a final.
Moir as much as he has shown great signs, struggles to run out a 2nds game.
TDK came on and gave immediate impact but was struggling at the end so I give that move a tick. Should Kennedy been subbed out probably not but we were being torched for pace and I can understand the decision.

Owies being out hurt more than people realise. Gets in dangerous positions and kick and sets up goals. Would be madness to lose him given the output of our other small forwards.

Never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems.

 

[JustaBattler]

Horrendous performance across the board, starting in the middle with our leaders.

Yep

For all the criticism on selection it is highly unlikely it would have made one iota of difference.

Strong probability you are correct here

Cincotta, while should have been selected, hasn't been in great form since the middle of the year.

Not sure about that - in my book at least he has teh physical characteristics to run with a Zorko

Lord and Binns weren't going to give us more than Doc and Cerra in a final.

I think Doch should have been a sub if anything - Lord doesn't have the tank to run out a game yet - and Binns instead fo who are my questions to arrive at the same conclusion

Moir as much as he has shown great signs, struggles to run out a 2nds game.

True

TDK came on and gave immediate impact but was struggling at the end so I give that move a tick. Should Kennedy been subbed out probably not but we were being torched for pace and I can understand the decision.

same can be said for Cerra, Williams, Docherty, McGovern ..all not playing at their best - one caveat to TDK though- why not play him as a FF and rotating ruck from the get go- at least we could have had three targets to kick to in Harry/TDK and Kemp?

Owies being out hurt more than people realise. Gets in dangerous positions and kick and sets up goals. Would be madness to lose him given the output of our other small forwards.

True

Never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems.

Lack of continuity is the #1 negative factor that Carlton has had to wear for 3 years now - clearing out perennially injured types was left a year too long - but who knows what the alternatives were anyway- Cininghma/Marchbank/Martin as examples are probably zero pick trade candidates.

The plague of repeat soft tissues and forever not available types has meant ******ed development in VFL as well as lack of real next man up alternatives in AFL- even Fogarty and Cottrell are big outs....

 

[Sector 7G]

same can be said for Cerra, Williams, Docherty, McGovern ..all not playing at their best - one caveat to TDK though- why not play him as a FF and rotating ruck from the get go- at least we could have had three targets to kick to in Harry/TDK and Kemp?

I think the difference is that the MC thought TDK only had 1 quarter in him and hoped we would be within 5 goals and that would be the difference. He came on and we kicked 5 in row but then he faded out ( only one possession in the last) From a fitness point of view his injury meant he was coming from further back.

 

[JustaBattler]

I think the difference is that the MC thought TDK only had 1 quarter in him and hoped we would be within 5 goals and that would be the difference. He came on and we kicked 5 in row but then he faded out ( only one possession in the last) From a fitness point of view his injury meant he was coming from further back.

The MC were juggling a lot of selection balls going into this match that's for sure. A perfect storm of injury and unavailability cumulative impacts on every line.....

Irrespective of any selections - allowing Brisbane to waltz their way to 50 something unanswered points begs a lot of questions. ie it wasn't the loss that meant much it was the manner and what it speaks to.

We already know that Carlton can't match the leg speed of good teams - pretty much across every line. That is a list issue.

What we also learned was that Carlton wasn't able to stop Brisbane's CBB dominance until TDK came on - that is on Pittonet AND the mids not being able to organise themselves to suit circumstances during the game - which is on-field leadership and pre-game prep - coaching.

It is inexcusable not to cover Zorko for a half of football - that is in game match ups - again that is on all the coaches.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Did you hold this same belief when we were sitting 2nd on the ladder?

I'd love to answer this if I may.

Yes, I have held that belief the whole time. I have always felt we were too slow, and we carried too many role players who would be prone to go missing when confronted with higher quality. I felt that our game plan was too taxing to make it through a sentence. When we second on the ladder, I finally said I trusted them, only to take it back two weeks later. I believed briefly, that as much as I thought the game plan was deficient, that we had found a way to just switch it on and blow teams away when we needed to. It didn't take much for me to realise this wasn't true, and that it was nigh on impossible to play our way a whole game, which is necessary when other teams bring their own pressure.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Horrendous performance across the board, starting in the middle with our leaders.

For all the criticism on selection it is highly unlikely it would have made one iota of difference.
Cincotta, while should have been selected, hasn't been in great form since the middle of the year. Disagree, he's been decent without starring.
Lord and Binns weren't going to give us more than Doc and Cerra in a final. Disagree strongly. Both selections gave us nothing. The kids would have added plenty.
Moir as much as he has shown great signs, struggles to run out a 2nds game. So what, only need 6-8 possessions to kick 3 or 4. Durdin, Motlop invisible...
TDK came on and gave immediate impact but was struggling at the end so I give that move a tick. Should Kennedy been subbed out probably not but we were being torched for pace and I can understand the decision. TDK should have started the game, to do otherwise was mindless. Ditto subbing Kennedy when many others were giving nothing.

Owies being out hurt more than people realise. Gets in dangerous positions and kick and sets up goals. Would be madness to lose him given the output of our other small forwards.

Never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems.

 

[Accidental genius]

Wife detail comes to light as Carlton coach cops backlash over 'horrible' finals move

Matthew Kennedy made a mad dash to Brisbane after the birth of his son. Read more here.

au.sports.yahoo.com

 

[Accidental genius]

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/09/11/no-excuse-for-vosss-mistakes-and-the-crossroads-await-for-carlton/amp/

 

[bigblueboy]

who?

Official AFL Website of the Carlton Football Club

The official AFL website of the Carlton Football Club.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Footy nous and ability isn’t gender specific, suggest you dig a little deeper.

 

[GoBlues!]

Horrendous performance across the board, starting in the middle with our leaders.

For all the criticism on selection it is highly unlikely it would have made one iota of difference.
Cincotta, while should have been selected, hasn't been in great form since the middle of the year.
Lord and Binns weren't going to give us more than Doc and Cerra in a final.
Moir as much as he has shown great signs, struggles to run out a 2nds game.
TDK came on and gave immediate impact but was struggling at the end so I give that move a tick. Should Kennedy been subbed out probably not but we were being torched for pace and I can understand the decision.

Owies being out hurt more than people realise. Gets in dangerous positions and kick and sets up goals. Would be madness to lose him given the output of our other small forwards.

Never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems.

It’s a pretty bad outcome and end to the season, a lot to do with underperforming coaching group.

Saying changing player X for Y wouldn’t have made a difference is glossing over the deficiencies of a coaching group who after 3 years with the team are not inspiring much hope for the future.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Horrendous performance across the board, starting in the middle with our leaders.

For all the criticism on selection it is highly unlikely it would have made one iota of difference.
Cincotta, while should have been selected, hasn't been in great form since the middle of the year.
Lord and Binns weren't going to give us more than Doc and Cerra in a final.
Moir as much as he has shown great signs, struggles to run out a 2nds game.
TDK came on and gave immediate impact but was struggling at the end so I give that move a tick. Should Kennedy been subbed out probably not but we were being torched for pace and I can understand the decision.

Owies being out hurt more than people realise. Gets in dangerous positions and kick and sets up goals. Would be madness to lose him given the output of our other small forwards.

Never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems.

Agree, it probably wouldn't have made a difference, but as I said in the preview, the selections reeked of desperation.

Cincotta out was just pathetic when you include Durdin (injured) Motlop (poor form) Fantasia (best of the 3 which was just average)
TDK, Cerra, Doc, Williams, McGovern, Harry all coming back from injury, Harry was okay, TDK did what he could, just too many blokes to carry

We may not have won but the young guys would have shown some spirit, Lord and Carroll, TDK for Moir as Sub.

It was the Hail Mary of Hail Marys', and it showed, the players were beaten before they got out there

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Agree, it probably wouldn't have made a difference, but as I said in the preview, the selections reeked of desperation.

Cincotta out was just pathetic when you include Durdin (injured) Motlop (poor form) Fantasia (best of the 3 which was just average)
TDK, Cerra, Doc, Williams, McGovern, Harry all coming back from injury, Harry was okay, TDK did what he could, just too many blokes to carry

We may not have won but the young guys would have shown some spirit, Lord and Carroll, TDK for Moir as Sub.

It was the Hail Mary of Hail Marys', and it showed, the players were beaten before they got out there

Certainly there was a huge lack of belief that translated into a huge lack of effort....

Voss (& his coaching crew and his MC) f...ed it up big time - there is no shying away from that...