Does Nathan Buckley deserve credit for the 2023 premiership?

[Taper]

17 players in the 2023 premiership team were developed under Nathan Buckley's tutelage.
Nick Daicos, Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

28

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

, Bobby Hill, Patrick Lipinski

1

Patrick Lipinski

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

10.2

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.8

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

18.3

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.3

4star

D

15.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.2

4star

, Oleg Markov

37

Oleg Markov

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

3star

MG

228.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.4

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

4.2

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

295.2

5star

and Tom Mitchell are the only players in the premiership team who didn't play a game under Nathan Buckley.

Is it fair to say Craig McRae

Craig Mcrae

Age

51

Ht

176cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.4

5star

won a premiership with Nathan Buckley's list?
Does Nathan Buckley deserve credit for the premiership?

 

[theprospector]

17 players in the 2023 premiership team were developed under Nathan Buckley's tutelage.
Nick Daicos, Billy Frampton, Bobby Hill, Patrick Lipinski, Oleg Markov and Tom Mitchell are the only players in the premiership team who didn't play a game under Nathan Buckley.

Is it fair to say Craig McRae won a premiership with Nathan Buckley's list?
Does Nathan Buckley deserve credit for the premiership?

It’s an interesting question because Buckley gets no credit for it , whether that is right or wrong who knows.

What I will say is we don’t win 2023 if he is still coaching

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Zero credit

Took over the best team we've had in 80 years and quickly turned them into spuds

Crap coach, selfish player too

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ioppolo]

You could ask this question of any coach who wins a flag early in their coaching career. Does Schwab deserve credit for Hawthorn 2008?

 

[Taper]

It’s an interesting question because Buckley gets no credit for it , whether that is right or wrong who knows.

What I will say is we don’t win 2023 if he is still coaching

Mark Thompson receives credit for our 2011 premiership which is fair, but I haven't seen anyone give Nathan Buckley credit for 2023.
We wouldn't have won in 2011 if Thompson was still coaching.

 

[draft_enjoyer]

No.

 

[GOTHELIONS16]

No it took a Brisbane lions player to take the magpies all the way. Buckley, the magpies own, never had it in him as a player or a coach. Leigh Matthews deserves the credit for McRaes success. A 2002-2003 magpies player will never win an afl premiership as they just weren’t good enough.

 

[Username Anthony]

It depends on how much him coercing Adam Treloar

1

Adam Treloar

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.2

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

15.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

30.3

5star

K

16.3

5star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.3

4star

CL

5.8

5star

D

18.0

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.6

4star

into leaving the club helped things I reckon. And it must've helped some, because you don't get rid of a well paid player otherwise. We do know that 2021 ended up being some short term pain.

If we just look at it from a list perspective it's probably a resounding yes, because Nick Daicos gets to Collingwood if Buckley remained anyway. So it's not unreasonable to say Buckley may have won the flag in 2023, but would he have won it in 2022 also? Maybe.

 

[parano1a]

Yes, Buckley definitely deserves some credit for the player and development defensive structures he put in place. Also worth noting he was one kick short of being a premiership coach in 2018.

However McRae was successful in motivating the players to get the best out of themselves and giving them the determination to come back and win tight games again and again.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

You could ask this question of any coach who wins a flag early in their coaching career. Does Schwab deserve credit for Hawthorn 2008?

A lot of Dog supporters credit Brendan McCartney for the development years of 2012-2014 after 2016, even though he fractured the senior players in the end. The answer definitely varies by occasion.

 

[GC2015]

Keep in mind that Collingwood were 16th on the ladder when Buckley stepped away and they went on to finish 17th in that 2021 season. A year later they finish 4th and make a prelim, which is then followed by a minor premiership + a flag in 2023. Obviously a lot changed after Bucks left, so I'm inclined to say he doesn't deserve much credit for the success that occured after he left.

 

[mako_roo]

Mark Thompson receives credit for our 2011 premiership which is fair, but I haven't seen anyone give Nathan Buckley credit for 2023.
We wouldn't have won in 2011 if Thompson was still coaching.

Mark Thompson was a 2x premiership coach, he was so good he had time to eat sandwiches & laugh during the games

 

[adonski]

They came good when he left

 

[theprospector]

Also worth noting that players like Sidebottom were cooked under Buckley

 

[76woodenspooners]

17 players in the 2023 premiership team were developed under Nathan Buckley's tutelage.
Nick Daicos, Billy Frampton, Bobby Hill, Patrick Lipinski, Oleg Markov and Tom Mitchell are the only players in the premiership team who didn't play a game under Nathan Buckley.

Is it fair to say Craig McRae won a premiership with Nathan Buckley's list?
Does Nathan Buckley deserve credit for the premiership?

No.

There is no universe in which Buckley, had he stayed on, would have enjoyed anything like the success that Fly has.

You might be able to argue that Buckley laid down a culture that provided a strong contrast to Fly’s, and that contrast provided enormous relief and buy-in from the players to Fly’s program. But that’s like crediting the success of a leader to how poor their predecessor was.

Yeah, there were some players that are in common. But there were also players who were getting games under Buckley that Fly either cut, phased out, or moved on (Poulter, Rantall, Madgen, Bianco, Sier, the Brown Brothers)

Sidebottom was cooked and nobody would have predicted he’d still be going around in 2023 let alone 2025.

Pendlebury was down on the form he has now.

Josh Daicos was a fringe player and nobody would predict he’d go on to win a B&F.

Back in 2021 in the Buckley/Harvey era expectations amongst Collingwood supporters was rock bottom - so much so our members agitated to turf out our President and a few board members (ironically the ones who had just appointed Fly). The most crazy silly optimistic of fans (you know the ones, every club has them) predicted Collingwood wouldn’t be competitive until 2025. The rest of us thought that was crazy silly optimistic.

What Fly has achieved at Collingwood is truly remarkable.

He inherited a team that finished 17th with only 6 wins for the season. For context, West Coast had 5 wins in 2024. Who is predicting WCE to make a prelim next year and be 2026 Premiers? And if that does happen, how much credit would you give to Adam Simpson?

Fly currently has the best win / loss ratio of any current serving AFL coach.

It’s easy for a coach to have a super impressive win/loss ratio when they’ve only coached one game …

… but there is only one coach in VFL / AFL history who has a better win/loss ratio than Fly and coached more games (Jack Bissett, South Melbourne, 1930’s)

 

[Cyclops]

I believe players have credited Nathan Buckley with improving their careers. He was a good coach.

He didn't coach the 2023 flag so he doesn't get formal acknowledgement, but IIRC Fly has repeatedly spoken in terms of all the contributiona of past players coaches and administrators.

Bucks is a very moral person in my view, and has been a model ex coach, zero sniping, careful not to reveal too much.

I don't believe he would accept any credit for the flag if ut was offered, and I heard him talk about quietly watching the game and slipping quietly into the rooms to celebrate.

Hard worker, honest, I suspect he was less adept at leading the less orderly players than Malthouse (just as loyal and vastly more emotional than Bucks) and Fly (used to Matthews Brisbane Freakshow).

Brisbane couldn't win until they got some Collingwood honesty from Matthews. Guys like Northey deserve credit for developing some of those players but Matthews led them to the threepeat.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

He doesn’t deserve credit, no.

But a generational talent was added to a side that had played in a grand final (lost by under a kick), a prelim (lost by under a kick) and a semi final in three of the four years prior. To suggest he didn’t have any influence is also wrong.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

He deserves more credit for costing them flags during his coaching stint.

Good thing, though. Glad Collingwood followed Essendon and Brisbane in appointing favourite sons as coaches.

 

[My Tilly]

selfish player too

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Mark Thompson receives credit for our 2011 premiership which is fair, but I haven't seen anyone give Nathan Buckley credit for 2023.
We wouldn't have won in 2011 if Thompson was still coaching.

Thompson won 2 flags already and took Geelong to a prelim the year before.
Geelong em were still considered a well oiled machine at the time.

Buckley took Collingwood to the bottom 2 in his last season.

 

[76woodenspooners]

But a generational talent was added to a side that had played in a grand final …

Buckley also had that. People would rightfully scoff at the comparison today, but in 2018 Jaidyn Stephenson was a very handy 38 goal small forward and (just like Nick Daicos) the emphatic Rising Star.

Of course Nick is the better player, but the point is both coaches had access to a generational talent.

Stephenson unfortunately ran off the rails in a way that nobody saw coming, and he never found his way back.