Keep doing what we are doing. Teach how we should play re structures and mentality. If we win we win, if we lose and get pick 4 that is fine as we should get a good player. I can't see us getting better than 15th though. Although if we keep playing they way we are there might be a few wins coming up.
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Do we still want to finish bottom???
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jko'neal
Cancelled
We've got competition if we win a few. West Coast are a terrible team and if we roll them which I expect us too, they will be lucky to win again this year.
absolutely right barnzy.
ironic isnt it here we have a poster tickled pink with martin a pick 3. yet he would have been happy to win a handful of meaningless games with a shit list and forgone getting martin.
this is what posters are basically proposing. pick 4 this yr should yield a high quality player like martin. it would also mean a very handy extra pick in the 20s.
- May 8, 2007
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- #54
Also, getting the priority is based on us keeping to under 4.5 wins next year. I would be very surprised if we will be that bad then, and if we were, i bet those calling for a mini tank now to keep it low this year, will be calling for blood because we are still crap next year. 
CallMeAl
All Australian
The day the club goes out with sole intention of losing is the day they can get f#$@%d
I refuse to follow a club that sinks to the lows of that blue filth or those Range Rover driving nancies
I refuse to follow a club that sinks to the lows of that blue filth or those Range Rover driving nancies
Also, getting the priority is based on us keeping to under 4.5 wins next year. I would be very surprised if we will be that bad then, and if we were, i bet those calling for a mini tank now to keep it low this year, will be calling for blood because we are still crap next year.
what utter rubbish.
there are plenty of players we need to cull. that many we cannot do them all in one yr.
hence this debate.
of course us pro tankers will be calling for blood but the vast majority who are in our gun are longer term underachievers who are known to everyone now.
as far as having a go at the club and calling for blood because we may be in this boat next yr welll it wont be the pro tankers calling for heads not if we go thru the correct processes. we expect a low finish regardless.
- May 8, 2007
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- #57
Where did i mention culling? I said we will be a lot better next year and win more than 4.5. So why is that rubbish?
I think we could realistically win 3 or 4 games and dont ask me against who, people know my feelings about long range forecasts...just with Foley, Connors and Jacko to come in I can see us being pretty menacing to a few sides particularly those that put the cue in the rack toward the end of yr once spent. In any case it will still likely see us finish bottom but the WINS are an important milestone for a young team to underline the path we are going is the right one
- Aug 18, 2009
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Have to agree. I'm fine with us finishing last this year, as we experiment with personnel and position. I support the long-term focus on winning a flag, not just clocking up enough wins to finish ninth and falling back again.
But WANTING to lose is an abhorrent concept. That idea disgusts me.
We should all understand very well that high draft picks mean bugger all. We've had more of then than anybody and we're the worst team in the comp.
Draft picks means jack all? There was bearly a Melbourne supporter who wanted to see their team win after the West Coast win last year. Yes, Melbourne were getting as many games as they can into the kids last year. But it is clear as day they were tanking with how they decided to 'experiment' by playing players out of position when they looked like a chance of winning.
I used to be dead set against tanking. But, what Melbourne and Carlton has shown is that tanking is an effective tool in building a team. The AFL refuses to do anything about it, so we can't complain if clubs use the system.
However, at the moment we are simply not good enough to tank. There is very little chance that we will win more than five games this year. Next year will be a different story, we proabably should be good enough to win 5-6 games, we may have to tank a game or two then.
Carlton and Melbourne are now where they are because they tanked. We are now where we are because we played in the spirit of the game.
We are where we are because Danny Frawley and Terry Wallace traded away draft picks, recruited poorly and opted to play old players over young developing players.
Melbourne aren't anywhere yet unless they make the finals.
Carlton are a team that make up numbers in the finals thanks partly to their draft picks and their billionaire friend who purchased the best player in the AFL (at the time). I still don't think they have or will have a premiership team any time soon.
We are just inexperienced and too young at the moment but tanking won't solve our problems it will just create more.
CotchNCoke
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- Feb 24, 2009
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Dimma's already doing everything he can to finish last by playing the kids. Unfortunately, for the tanking advocates, most of the players are responding to his coaching. We're still a chance to finish low enough for a pp but I've got a feeling that tanking is almost impossible during this culture change.
_RT_
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- Sep 17, 2006
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- #64
I honestly don't think we're aiming to finish last, its just Hardwick knows that we're not good enough at the moment to win that many games, so he is using that as an excuse to experiment with his lineup and find out which players can take us forward. I also believe that is the reason why we're seeing 4-6 changes every week as Hardwick is having a good look at everyone on the list. As a result of all the chopping and changing its only natural that we're not going to win that many games.
As I said in my earlier replies, if it means that we end up with pick 4 and the PP before the second round then so be it at least we've got games into the kids and we get to add a top quality kid to our list. On the other hand, given we're playing kids, if we get on a roll and win a few games in the run home then we also win as it means we're improving faster than expected. So I don't see how we can really lose in the situation we find ourselves.
As I said in my earlier replies, if it means that we end up with pick 4 and the PP before the second round then so be it at least we've got games into the kids and we get to add a top quality kid to our list. On the other hand, given we're playing kids, if we get on a roll and win a few games in the run home then we also win as it means we're improving faster than expected. So I don't see how we can really lose in the situation we find ourselves.
we'll finish bottom i reckon, get a good pick.
not sure about next season though, will we have enough to storm ahead or will he have to hang back again?
not sure about next season though, will we have enough to storm ahead or will he have to hang back again?
CotchNCoke
Draftee
- Feb 24, 2009
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don't know if it's an excuse to experiment as much as that's just how he is going about the transformation. As you've suggested RT, I agree that the PP is an added bonus if we don't improve sooner rather than later, but is definately not the central focus.
pretty much my thinking. just a question though.
we are going into say rnd 20 we have won 4 games. we are to play two sides we are likely to lose against so we dont really need to change anything but one side we are a good chance to maybe win do we pick a side for that game that is structurally poor and unlikely to win thus ensuring a shot at a high quality pick and a bonus 2nd rounder or do we go all out.
i know what i would do. give me a shot at a possible martin type and the extra pick anyday.
SteveoTheTiger
Team Captain
In that situation we would be pretty stupid to go for the win IMO. I think even the most optimistic amongst us would agree we need at least 2 or 3 more gun players and a handfull of good depth players before we are even close to a premiership.
And you could say we have been tanking this year anyway.. Hardwick has said time and again that he is getting games into kids and testing players in various positions rather than playing the "best team" available.
And you could say we have been tanking this year anyway.. Hardwick has said time and again that he is getting games into kids and testing players in various positions rather than playing the "best team" available.
- May 8, 2007
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- #69
Dimma has a team meeting and addresses the players re the following...
... He then asks the players, and in a separate leadership group meeting as to what outcome would they prefer...
I wonder what THEY would say.
... He then asks the players, and in a separate leadership group meeting as to what outcome would they prefer...
I wonder what THEY would say.
- Aug 8, 2009
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WE MUST FINISH BOTTOM AND WIN 4 GAMES MAX.
If we actually want to challange for the flag, then the way to do it is by ensuring we get access to the best quality kids. If we had of done this 2 yrs ago then we would be in Melbournes position now and challngin for finals.
People say they are happy with Martin...but imagine if we didn't win those meaningless games last year and got Scully and Martin....and then this year Gaff and Parker. See the difference it makes.
We can get pick 4 and get a gun or get pick 6 and due to the curse get a dud lol. The main catch is we get pick 25 and 26. Considering the depth of this draft there will be plenty of quality talent available at this pick. IMO I don;t think we will win another 4 games anyway...max 3. I mean it was only a few days ago we were worried we wouldn't win one.
However I would like to see the Crows win a few games, considerign there players are retiring on a daily basis and playing kids it could mean they challange us for PICK 4 (not the spoon).
If we want to improve we can do it through kids but give ourselves a huge leg up by securing pick 4 and a priority pick.
- May 8, 2007
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- #71
As my post was referring to what the players would say, Martin would be gutted as the club would have taken scully and trengove as they were clearly one and two. So they are saying out Dusty in the other two.
the players play nothing else. they control what happens on the field. the footy dept well they literally determine what happens in the future.
dont blur the lines between the two. tell me would geelong want to go into a finals series with or without g ablett why not ask the players.sheesh.
without a doubt the whole basis of the nd is to get the opportunity to get your hands on the martins abletts and judds before everyone else.
by the way you didnt answer my question do you think it would have been worth while winning a few extra games foregoing martin or would it be better to ensure martin comes to us. what about cotchin or deledio while we are at it. 2004 instead of finishing 16th we win 4 more games against mediocre sides and finish 12th. or a similar scenario when we got cotchin. sheesh wce went hell for leather to get cotchin sydney went crazy offering two top 10 picks to get martin.
you dont get it like a lot of us i reckon it will take yrs before it sinks in.
ya know if wallace and the club had a brain we would have ended up with both cotchin and kruezer in 07 thats what properly bottoming out in 06 would have done for us. if we continued to clean out the myriad of duds we would have had the first two picks in the 08 draft it have netted any combination of watts natinui hill hartlett hurley yarran rich. all i can say is failure to properly bottom out costs. yep bottom out some call it tanking.
- May 8, 2007
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- #73
On the first one, go back to the Melbourne game day thread and i was stoked McMohan kicked the goal and we won. I have always wanted to win regardless. Yes i DID answer your question. I am WRAPPED we have martin and couldnt give a toss about the Dee`s.
On the second, how silly is all that. You may as well ask what would have happened with all our future picks if we picked Buddy over Tambo, probably no Cotch or Martin for a start. Its all irrelevant. We are only talking the difference between 4 and maybe 6 after all.
no you didnt answer a thing. the question was martin or some extra wins and a later pick. but hey an honest answer will defeat your argument so i wont continue i will only get fobbed of again.
and you dont get it on point two. you probably wont until 10 yrs time when we are still mired in mediocrity.
another question even though on current form i dont expect an honest answer.
do you think terrence did the right thing by not coaching and gaining pick 18 for the club. and yep we all know the fools traded away that pick but it should have netted either pears or ward.
we now supposedly have people in place who know what the recruiting caper is all about. if this be true and the same situation arose would you do a terrence and tank. its about having the opportunity weather you use said opportunity or not.
ya know ive put up with 24 yrs of your mindset i reckon its time you losers sat back and gave us tankers 3 yrs. we might even let you fairy floss types jump on the bandwagon.
- May 8, 2007
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- #75
This is like a merry go round. I dont give a toss about any individual player who may or may not have come to the club. Every supporter from every club will argue about the relative merits of their picks and how it affects the club. As far as im concerned our number one pick is changing this club in a way we have been craving for 30 years. He is more important than anyone a priority pick will deliver, he is the man. Dimma. So move on Santa and stop being such a negative argumentative poster just for the sake of it. It gets so dull.
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