Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[31550]

I presented no "massive generalisations, false assumptions and personal bias". The evidence is clear, has been listed repeatedly (this is the third thread FFS), and my statement obviously refers to endless posts by you and others. The "specific example" would therefore be 75% or more of the content of the three threads. But, if you really must, just in the last few pages...

"perhaps William overdosed on FF's anti-anxiety' medicine"

"FGM MUST have seen FF at breakfast if FM had breakfast with them both"

"100% that's a species of magnolia that only flowers at Christmas"

I think you get the picture!

What dont you understand about the word ' perhaps'?
It's a suggestion not a statement of fact.
The others are not my words, Jason. Although I don't see the problem with the second quote. It's a fact.

Do better.

 

[Lady O]

Wild theories! There have been lots of discussions about ideas without any evidence. The fall from the balcony was a theory. No witness, no evidence, no forensics. The only evidence was that there was a balcony at the house. The police did a big dig and came up with Zip, as far as we know. No mention at the coroners of new evidence. But a bit of discussion as I recall. The height of the balcony, likelihood of injury from a fall that high, furniture on the balcony.....

And then theory, the neighbour running over William with her car on the way to bingo, the postie running over William, fall from bike.

Though I think it is understood that these are just theories and ideas that could be possible, even if they do sound a bit wild.

Mr Spedding would not agree with that. Police put forward a theory. Then arrested him (with some leaked information so there was media coverage). Then they looked at historic charges. Then eventually they found out where he was on Friday morning, and why he had missed the phone call. Remember it was FGM who had him visit her house earlier that week. She remembers that bit in her walkthrough.

The difference is that the wild theory of the fall from the balcony and FM hiding the body is one proposed by the Police. They did searches to try to prove it and as far as we know, they found zip.

There's wild theories and then there's crazy sh!t.

Lets keep the crazy ones to PMs.

 

[DropBearess]

This thread must appear very scary for any newbies contemplating a contribution! No wonder we've lost some good posters. Such a shame, because some valid leads could easily be missed when scrolling through the flinging, slinging and derision.

 

[Lady O]

This thread must appear very scary for any newbies contemplating a contribution! No wonder we've lost some good posters. Such a shame, because some valid leads could easily be missed when scrolling through the flinging and slinging.

You sure need to pull up your big girl panties to post on any forum. This one's mild compared to some.....

 

[31550]

I presented no "massive generalisations, false assumptions and personal bias".

Including me and ARB in a single subset is a massive generalisation.
Attributing words to me which I have not used is a false assumption.
Your personal bias is self-evident. Don't pretend you don't have your own agenda.

 

[LRitz]

The difference is that the wild theory of the fall from the balcony and FM hiding the body is one proposed by the Police. They did searches to try to prove it and as far as we know, they found zip.

There's wild theories and then there's crazy sh!t.

Lets keep the crazy ones to PMs.

At the moment there is no indication that William fell from the balcony. Just because the Police thought this could have happened and investigated does not make the idea some how more sensible.

IMO, the falling off the balcony seemed a bit wild and yes, crazy too. So the idea was that there was a serious fall resulting in major injury and then death. But there is no evidence, no blood, there was no screaming heard from William or FM. The FM then has only about 60 minutes to hide any evidence, blood or marks on her clothing, then with no prior preparation, take him somewhere else that is not in the search area, and keep FD in the dark. Drive the car without anyone seeing it. Either hide it from FGM or get FGM to go along with the crazy idea. And then either keep it from the FF or get him to along with the idea. All sounds a bit crazy to me. Crazy but possible, IMO.

What ever happened is out of the ordinary. So if out of the ordinary, but still possible, it doesn't mean it is crazy.

 

[winyhill]

Although I don't see the problem with the second quote. It's a fact.

No , not a fact both statements can be true. FGM and FF.
Mathematical subsets.

 

[Lady O]

At the moment there is no indication that William fell from the balcony. Just because the Police thought this could have happened and investigated does not make the idea some how more sensible.

IMO, the falling off the balcony seemed a bit wild and yes, crazy too. So the idea was that there was a serious fall resulting in major injury and then death. But there is no evidence, no blood, there was no screaming heard from William or FM. The FM then has only about 60 minutes to hide any evidence, blood or marks on her clothing, then with no prior preparation, take him somewhere else that is not in the search area, and keep FD in the dark. Drive the car without anyone seeing it. Either hide it from FGM or get FGM to go along with the crazy idea. And then either keep it from the FF or get him to along with the idea. All sounds a bit crazy to me. Crazy but possible, IMO.

What ever happened is out of the ordinary. So if out of the ordinary, but still possible, it doesn't mean it is crazy.

Your idea of crazy is obviously different to mine.

 

[jason_recliner]

What dont you understand about the word ' perhaps'?

Yes, it's a hypothesis but it's not based on evidence, hence my observation on "imagined falsehoods". If you go back, you will see that your hypothesis triggered a bunch of speculation, none of which is based upon any understood reality.

... I don't see the problem with the second quote. It's a fact.

No, it's not. FM could be sitting at the table. FF eats with her, leaves. FGM enters, eats with her. Just one - the simplest and most straightforward - of several possibilities that don't require a conspiratorial web of intrigue and multiple lies to the authorities. None of which have been subsequently debunked, that we know of.

Do better.

 

[31550]

Yes, it's a hypothesis but it's not based on evidence, hence my observation on "imagined falsehoods". If you go back, you will see that your hypothesis triggered a bunch of speculation, none of which is based upon any understood reality.



No, it's not. FM could be sitting at the table. FF eats with her, leaves. FGM enters, eats with her. Just one - the simplest and most straightforward - of several possibilities that don't require a conspiratorial web of intrigue and multiple lies to the authorities. None of which have been subsequently debunked, that we know of.

Where is the evidence for an abduction hypothesis, if all hypotheses require evidence?
The very idea of proposing an hypothesis is to stimulate discussion and evaluation, positive and negative.
That's pretty much 99% of the content of this forum.

Stop backpedalling and repeating your same erroneous summations. The statement was not mine anyway.
But if FM, FGM and FF ate breakfast together then all three of them would have seen each other. To speculate that two of them didn't see each other is ridiculously clutching at straws to try to wriggle out of your error.

 

[jason_recliner]

Where is the evidence for an abduction hypothesis?

William is missing

• I agree with your three possibilities. Abduction, while unlikely, is the most likely. In a country of 25,000,000 people unlikely things happen all the time.
• There's no known motive for covering up his accidental death. William was in daycare and in contact with the Department - no signs of abuse.
• Unusually high preponderance of convicted and also alleged/charged pedophiles in and around Kendall, including some with direct contact with William's family
• The foster daughter, a witness who does not have a positive relationship with FF and FM, has not accused them of being responsible

Last PoL is 9:37am.

• Why provide the photos at all if they could be at all incriminating/complicating? Why not delete them?

William was reported missing at 10:57am.

• It is not logical that the FM would unnecessarily constrain the time required to pull off a perfect crime
• Any transport would have to be undertaken extremely quickly, with very little preparation, at significant risk of being observed (compared to doing it that night)

No evidence of William's presence has been uncovered despite numerous and extensive searches

• Indicates he has been transported a significant distance from FGM's home

Nobody has accounted for all of the vehicles in the vicinity of FGM's home that morning (as evidenced by the coronial inquiry testimony)
Property on FGM's street was on the market at the time William went missing

• The street may have been trafficked by people inspecting the property

The western end of Benaroon Drive turns into a (fire?) trail through Kendall Forest

• The street may have been trafficked by various recreational users (e.g. hikers, motorcyclists)

No charges laid against FM or FF

• Two of the most closely and extensively investigated and scrutinised people in recent Australian criminal history. It follows that it's more likely the perpetrator is not a prime suspect and therefore not as well understood (possibly one of the 700 PoIs)

None of the above is to say that FM absolutely didn't do it, but it's clear that abduction is more likely based on the publicly available evidence.

 

[31550]

William is missing

• I agree with your three possibilities. Abduction, while unlikely, is the most likely. In a country of 25,000,000 people unlikely things happen all the time.
• There's no known motive for covering up his accidental death. William was in daycare and in contact with the Department - no signs of abuse.
• Unusually high preponderance of convicted and also alleged/charged pedophiles in and around Kendall, including some with direct contact with William's family
• The foster daughter, a witness who does not have a positive relationship with FF and FM, has not accused them of being responsible

Last PoL is 9:37am.

• Why provide the photos at all if they could be at all incriminating/complicating? Why not delete them?

William was reported missing at 10:57am.

• It is not logical that the FM would unnecessarily constrain the time required to pull off a perfect crime
• Any transport would have to be undertaken extremely quickly, with very little preparation, at significant risk of being observed (compared to doing it that night)

No evidence of William's presence has been uncovered despite numerous and extensive searches

• Indicates he has been transported a significant distance from FGM's home

Nobody has accounted for all of the vehicles in the vicinity of FGM's home that morning (as evidenced by the coronial inquiry testimony)
Property on FGM's street was on the market at the time William went missing

• The street may have been trafficked by people inspecting the property

The western end of Benaroon Drive turns into a (fire?) trail through Kendall Forest

• The street may have been trafficked by various recreational users (e.g. hikers, motorcyclists)

No charges laid against FM or FF

• Two of the most closely and extensively investigated and scrutinised people in recent Australian criminal history. It follows that it's more likely the perpetrator is not a prime suspect and therefore not as well understood (possibly one of the 700 PoIs)

None of the above is to say that FM absolutely didn't do it, but it's clear that abduction is more likely based on the publicly available evidence.

None of that is actual evidence of abduction, any more than any of the other hypotheses.

But you previously insisted all hypotheses must have evidence?

And now it's based on what is 'more likely'? What is more likely? A child being abducted by a stranger and being killed or a child dying from physical abuse in the home?

 

[jason_recliner]

None of that is actual evidence of abduction, any more than any of the other hypotheses.

Yes, it is.

 

[jason_recliner]

But if FM, FGM and FF ate breakfast together then all three of them would have seen each other. To speculate that two of them didn't see each other is ridiculously clutching at straws to try to wriggle out of your error.

FM could be sitting at the table. FF eats with her, leaves. FGM enters, eats with her.

You really can't follow that?

 

[31550]

FM could be sitting at the table. FF eats with her, leaves. FGM enters, eats with her.

You really can't follow that?

Keep digging a hole for yourself.

The FM statement says:

"We had a late breaky around 8.30am. William and toast (sic), eggs, and WeetBix. William also had some orange juice. [FF]had some toast with us and he was getting ready for his meeting. Mum also had breaky with us. [FF] left the house around 9-ish. He told me that he wanted to drop his script off at the chemist prior to making his call. He was running a bit late. When he left [FD] and William were still having breaky. They were both really happy and chatty. They took a bit longer to have breaky as they were talking to my Mum and mucking around and being kids. After breaky [FD] stayed with Mum and they did some stuff inside ..."

FF is having toast while the kids have breakfast. FGM is there when FF leaves (during breakfast), and still there after breakfast for FD to stay with her.

If all this is true, how can FGM possibly not see FF at all?

 

[jason_recliner]

FGM is there when FF leaves (during breakfast),

Where does it say this?

 

[31550]

Where does it say this?

Where does it say she wasn't?

 

[Lady O]

Where does it say she wasn't?

So this is fun (not). I think I'll invite ARB back to talk about the magnolia tree!! Why don't you take it to pm?

 

[passball]

As for breakfast, I read that the kids went in to wake up FGM.
Now if there was fighting over a toy, the FF angry about the noise the kids were making, and also at the same time the kids were giggling so loud with joy, i would be pretty sure that would wake up FGM, considering she lived in a deathly quiet location.

FGM was very adamant that FF was not there. I think her problem was that the FPs narrative was drummed into her in those first 6 days but maybe unlike the FPs she was torn between her conscience and the lie.

She knew the trades name, where the business was, where to find the cut out ad for the tradie. She knew the washing was broken. She knew how to do her washing.
She knew what she had done the day before Williams disappearance, picking up her food from the Community Centre, socialising with the people at the Community Centre, going to shop at Laurieton.
She also knew she was not well.
That does not sound like a person with failing memory loss or dementia to me.

If a lie has to be made about breakfast between the 3 adults at the house then I think that's very telling.

 

[passball]

And.

Some last words FGM said in her walkthrough was 'he was taken''.
Mimicks what FM says, and that gives me the 'mumICKS'.

 

[jason_recliner]

Where does it say she wasn't?

FGM's 'testimony'.

 

[Grassy_Knoll]

Abduction, really?

You kids still wanna run with it in 2025? Let's play ball, I'll take the first pitch, who's up to the plate?
Earl, Jason you wanna step up?

The only people still running with the abduction narrative are those with the most to lose. They'll lose everything, they know it, desperate to make sure there's only 1 scenario.

Guess what?

There's ZERO evidence in 10 years to support the abduction, stop playing games with the Australian public.

I think it's time we exit stage right (that's north west in case you've been confused for 10 years) towards the carport won't that open a can of worms later this year and beyond.

You can't keep it secret for too much longer!! Let's get ready to rumble remember the date September 1st 2016....

The most significant date in the history of this case, 3 people nervous as you can ever be. Actually, my mistake 4!

Anyone found Wendy yet?

What did Wendy do for those 3 hours once she left the courts on the morning September 12th?

Afterall it was her day off! Imagine if Laidlaw is investigating what the phone number was that called her that morning before 9:30am. Time to think outside the box on that one!

Why didn't Wendy approach the FGM on her immediate arrival to 48 on September 12th? Instead she spoke to a cop! FGM knew each other very well.

Instead some 36 minutes would pass by before a cop introduces Hudson on the verandah to FGM, MFC, FFC, and L.... no sooner then FFC takes her to the back deck. Why didn't FGM do this given her existing relationship with Hudson. In between talking to Hudson, suddenly, FFC called Michelle White.... at 1:37pm having just spoken to her at 1:04pm

White must've been getting nervous at HQ... when the local cop starts talking to the carers!

But never fear, abduction it is because there's just no other evidence!

 

[passball]

So this is fun (not). I think I'll invite ARB back to talk about the magnolia tree!! Why don't you take it to pm?

If only we could be that kookaburra that morning, the one that used to live in the chopped down magnolia tree, we might know what happened.

 

[Lady O]

If only we could be that kookaburra that morning, the one that used to live in the chopped down magnolia tree, we might know what happened.

He's probably in the reflection in the window!

 

[Kurve]

Does anybody know if Wendy Hudson is still on the force, or has she left?