Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 3 * Coroner's Hearings Concluded

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 2

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[31550]

I don't think these questions have ever been asked so there isn't an answer.
I just thought someone might know.
I don't think they are silly questions.
Unless we know from Police what they have we are going by media basically.
If we are wrong then we are all silly, not just me.

FGM husband had been dead for 8 months. Whatever car he may or may not have had is irrelevant. There was only one car normally at the house - the FGMs Mazda.

 

[Underarrest_]

The interesting thing is WHY FGM would consider it necessary to call Owen on the Friday and tell him not to come (he was due on the Tuesday). William had been gone a few hours only. Why was FGM so sure he would not be found safe and sound later that day? How was she certain the case would still be active the next Tuesday? This is highly suspicious.

I’d put this down to the FGM not knowing when Geoff Owen was coming. Why didn’t FM phone Bill Spedding again and tell him not to come that day (if he does have the parts?)
I think it would be a very stressful day and even if William had been found they wouldn’t want anyone coming around to do work. Why else phone Geoff Owen and tell him not to come?
Unless William’s disappearance was planned by any of the Foster family and/others, I don’t think the family could have concocted other people who could have been persons of interest in a short period of time.

 

[passball]

So, see if you can provide us with answers if you think it's important. There may be relevance, but just asking and expecting others to provide answers without any other input from you doesn't really indicate you have much faith that the questions are relevant. Asking questions for the sake of it IMO.

I said I didn't have the answers.
There were questions raised about another phone, did the FPs have another phone.
Question asked, did FM have access to another car?
That's why it's relevant.
And as far as what i have read or watched the Foster Grandad has never come in to conversations except that he us dead.
If anyone has read, watched, investigated any of that and has an answer then I asked those questions.
And if I come across the answers then I will have input?
Wouldn't it be helpful if I had the resources, access, and authority to be able to ask or investigate those questions to the persons i would direct them to, But I don't. We don't ( as far as I know)

 

[Underarrest_]

I said I didn't have the answers.
There were questions raised about another phone, did the FPs have another phone.
Question asked, did FM have access to another car?
That's why it's relevant.
And as far as what i have read or watched the Foster Grandad has never come in to conversations except that he us dead.
If anyone has read, watched, investigated any of that and has an answer then I asked those questions.
And if I come across the answers then I will have input?
Wouldn't it be helpful if I had the resources, access, and authority to be able to ask or investigate those questions to the persons i would direct them to, But I don't. We don't ( as far as I know)

I think wanting to know what happened to FGF’s car is relevant.
Isn’t there a period of time after someone dies, before a registration can be changed over to another name or car sold, etc? 3,6 months? I’m not sure about NSW. Maybe the car wasn’t registered in his name but if it was and the car was sold, and/or rego changed to another name, deregistered, it wouldn’t have happened straight away.

 

[passball]

I think wanting to know what happened to FGF’s car is relevant.
Isn’t there a period of time after someone dies, before a registration can be changed over to another name or car sold, etc? 3,6 months? I’m not sure about NSW. Maybe the car wasn’t registered in his name but if it was and the car was sold, and/or rego changed to another name, it wouldn’t have happened straight away.

It's details like this, we don't know.
Thre initial theory was he had wandered.
Don't need to check for other phones, don't need to know about other cars accessible, don't need to know about family members, he was just missing.
And then FM knew straight away she thought he was abducted then mention the cars.
Searchers were out day and night for days and she forgets about the cars. I don't believe that.

 

[Underarrest_]

It's details like this, we don't know.
Thre initial theory was he had wandered.
Don't need to check for other phones, don't need to know about other cars accessible, don't need to know about family members, he was just missing.
And then FM knew straight away she thought he was abducted then mention the cars.
Searchers were out day and night for days and she forgets about the cars. I don't believe that.

I’m not leaning towards one theory or the other (maybe I am, but trying not too.)
The DPP have from reports asked if there could have been a third car involved. Whether there’s other evidence to support the police theory that FM was involved which is why they asked this, I don’t know but if there was a third car (and it wasn’t an outside abductor) who’s car could it be?
So, yes, valid question IMO.
Maybe the police know exactly what happened to FGF’s car or maybe it had been recently deregistered and no one knows where it is.

 

[shorsky]

I think wanting to know what happened to FGF’s car is relevant.
Isn’t there a period of time after someone dies, before a registration can be changed over to another name or car sold, etc? 3,6 months? I’m not sure about NSW. Maybe the car wasn’t registered in his name but if it was and the car was sold, and/or rego changed to another name, deregistered, it wouldn’t have happened straight away.

I think it’s quite possible that as a retired couple the foster grandparents had only 1 car - the Mazda which then continued to be known as ‘FGM’s car’.

 

[Underarrest_]

I think it’s quite possible, and even most likely, as a retired couple the foster grandparents had only 1 car - the Mazda which then continued to be known as ‘FGM’s car’.

Oh! I don’t know Shorsky, I thought i’d read in here that FGF owned a 4wd. I might be totally confused with sightings of 4wds.

 

[passball]

I’m not leaning towards one theory or the other (maybe I am, but trying not too.)
The DPP have from reports asked if there could have been a third car involved. Whether there’s other evidence to support the police theory that FM was involved which is why they asked this, I don’t know but if there was a third car (and it wasn’t an outside abductor) who’s car could it be?
So, yes, valid question IMO.
Maybe the police know exactly what happened to FGF’s car or maybe it had been recently deregistered and no one knows where it is.

I'm also on the fence but it's just my pinkies still attached.
Why tell a story and exaggerate when there's no need to.
Why keep adding bits to the story?
Why push a narrative?
Why even mention you searching as the 'frantic thing'? Explaining that action in that way is odd.
I do hope that Police find the missing puzzle pieces and put them back in the box as done.
Maybe need some Survivor contestants to put it all together.

 

[passball]

I’m not leaning towards one theory or the other (maybe I am, but trying not too.)
The DPP have from reports asked if there could have been a third car involved. Whether there’s other evidence to support the police theory that FM was involved which is why they asked this, I don’t know but if there was a third car (and it wasn’t an outside abductor) who’s car could it be?
So, yes, valid question IMO.
Maybe the police know exactly what happened to FGF’s car or maybe it had been recently deregistered and no one knows where it is.

Someone you would ring in an emergency, someone you trust, someone that's local, someone who for some reason has kept a secret for ten years.
But why?

I'm asking too many whys in my last posts.

 

[InTheBleachers]

I’d put this down to the FGM not knowing when Geoff Owen was coming. Why didn’t FM phone Bill Spedding again and tell him not to come that day (if he does have the parts?)
I think it would be a very stressful day and even if William had been found they wouldn’t want anyone coming around to do work. Why else phone Geoff Owen and tell him not to come?

Geoff Owen rang FGM at 9:10am. It is in Caroline Overington's book.
He wanted to do the deck work on 16th September, before he went for surgery on 18th September. But he was in Kendall between 10 and 11 that morning anyway - during the time that William disappeared - at the Community Centre paying for advertising.

It was Bill Spedding who was told he couldn't come that day. He only had one of the needed parts anyway.



William's mother told Mr Spedding in a phone call on the afternoon of September 12 that he wouldn't be able to come around that day.

'It has been very difficult': Man who had house excavated in William Tyrell investigation thanks public for support

Bill Spedding, the man at the centre of the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrell, has spo...

www.9news.com.au

 

[31550]

Geoff Owen rang FGM at 9:10am. It is in Caroline Overington's book.
He wanted to do the deck work on 16th September, before he went for surgery on 18th September. But he was in Kendall between 10 and 11 that morning anyway - during the time that William disappeared - at the Community Centre paying for advertising.

It was Bill Spedding who was told he couldn't come that day. He only had one of the needed parts anyway.



William's mother told Mr Spedding in a phone call on the afternoon of September 12 that he wouldn't be able to come around that day.

'It has been very difficult': Man who had house excavated in William Tyrell investigation thanks public for support

Bill Spedding, the man at the centre of the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrell, has spo...

www.9news.com.au

Get the facts right.

We don't know that it was Geoff Owen who rang.
The call came from Geoff Owen's phone but it went unanswered. Around 9am.

The call to Spedding was outgoing and he was NOT told not to come - in fact it was FM calling him to chase him up and see when he WAS coming (according to her narrative). The call was around 9am. Not afternoon.

Both calls are forensically confirmed.

FGM said she rang Owen in the Friday afternoon to tell him NOT to come. But he wasn't due until Tuesday. Suspicious. She KNEW the investigation would still be going on Tuesday? Also FGM says Owen 'knew what was going on' when she rang him in the early afternoon. How could Owen possibly know that William was FGMs foster grandson and was the missing child so quickly?

 

[InTheBleachers]

Get the facts right.

We don't know that it was Geoff Owen who rang.
The call came from Geoff Owen's phone but it went unanswered. Around 9am.

The call to Spedding was outgoing and he was NOT told not to come - in fact it was FM calling him to chase him up and see when he WAS coming (according to her narrative). The call was around 9am. Not afternoon.

Both calls are forensically confirmed.

FGM said she rang Owen in the Friday afternoon to tell him NOT to come. But he wasn't due until Tuesday. Suspicious. She KNEW the investigation would still be going on Tuesday? Also FGM says Owen 'knew what was going on' when she rang him in the early afternoon. How could Owen possibly know that William was FGMs foster grandson and was the missing child so quickly?

Maybe tell Caroline Overington and Bill Speddng's friend to get their facts right, if you feel they are wrong. I gave the sources.
I know the FM called Bill Spedding in the morning.

The dates that Geoff Owen wanted to do the job and was going for surgery come directly from inquest evidence. He had called the house twice on the 11th, and on the morning of the 12th. Yes, unanswered on the 12th.

Not going to argue with you, that is my understanding from multiple sources.

 

[31550]

Maybe tell Caroline Overington and Bill Speddng's friend to get their facts right, if you feel they are wrong. I gave the sources.
I know the FM called Bill Spedding in the morning.

The dates that Geoff Owen wanted to do the job and was going for surgery come directly from inquest evidence. He had called the house twice on the 11th, and on the morning of the 12th. Yes, unanswered on the 12th.

Not going to argue with you, that is my understanding from multiple sources.

The source you quoted

'It has been very difficult': Man who had house excavated in William Tyrell investigation thanks public for support

Bill Spedding, the man at the centre of the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrell, has spo...

www.9news.com.au

is WRONG. It says,

William's mother told Mr Spedding in a phone call on the afternoon of September 12 that he wouldn't be able to come around that day.

This is incorrect. It was the FM who called Spedding. It was in the morning NOT the afternoon. And he was NOT told he wouldn't be able to come that day. She simply left a message asking Spedding to call her back. The call went to voicemail.

In the afternoon FGM (not FM) called Owen, not Spedding. (Or says she did in her walkthrough).

Caroline Overington did not get anything wrong AFAIK. You just attributed the wrong information to her.

I have no idea what Spedding's friends may or may not have said, or whether it is factual. But there's no reason to disbelieve Spedding.

 

[InTheBleachers]

Caroline Overington did not get anything wrong AFAIK. You just attributed the wrong information to her.

"Again according to phone records, it was a local handyman, Geoffrey Thomas Owen, who called at 9:10am to ask about some repairs that William's foster nana needed to be done on the deck.
William's foster mum has no recollection of that call.
She was, it seems, already outside, with William."

From Chapter 2, Missing William Tyrrell by Caroline Overington

 

[InTheBleachers]

William's mother told Mr Spedding in a phone call on the afternoon of September 12 that he wouldn't be able to come around that day.

This is incorrect. It was the FM who called Spedding. It was in the morning NOT the afternoon. And he was NOT told he wouldn't be able to come that day. She simply left a message asking Spedding to call her back. The call went to voicemail.

"On Friday, September 12, he said he missed a call from the grandmother's phone and told police and family he tried to call back but got no answer.
He claimed he went to have coffee with his wife in Laurieton and then watched his grandson receive a school award.
Later that afternoon Mr Spedding claimed he called William's grandmother's phone again and a member of the toddler's family answered, said they were busy and he would have to call back.
Mr Spedding told police and his family he never went to Kendall that day."

William Tyrrell investigation turns to grandparent support groups

Detectives investigating the disappearance of William Tyrrell have examined two grandparent support groups, one of whose former members included two paedophiles, after looking into washing machine repairman Bill Spedding.

www.smh.com.au

 

[31550]

"Again according to phone records, it was a local handyman, Geoffrey Thomas Owen, who called at 9:10am to ask about some repairs that William's foster nana needed to be done on the deck.
William's foster mum has no recollection of that call.
She was, it seems, already outside, with William."

From Chapter 2, Missing William Tyrrell by Caroline Overington

Yes that is all correct, although there is no proof that it was Owen who made the call, - the records only show that the call came from Owen's phone. Understand?

 

[31550]

"On Friday, September 12, he said he missed a call from the grandmother's phone and told police and family he tried to call back but got no answer.
He claimed he went to have coffee with his wife in Laurieton and then watched his grandson receive a school award.
Later that afternoon Mr Spedding claimed he called William's grandmother's phone again and a member of the toddler's family answered, said they were busy and he would have to call back.
Mr Spedding told police and his family he never went to Kendall that day."

William Tyrrell investigation turns to grandparent support groups

Detectives investigating the disappearance of William Tyrrell have examined two grandparent support groups, one of whose former members included two paedophiles, after looking into washing machine repairman Bill Spedding.

www.smh.com.au

Yes, there is no reason to disbelieve any of the quoted section. The phone records show he did in fact call back and got no answer. The receipt proves he was at the coffee place. The school awards were on that day.

AFAIK there is no public record of the phone call in the afternoon, and we don't know which family member answered, but no reason to disbelieve Spedding.

 

[InTheBleachers]

Yes that is all correct, although there is no proof that it was Owen who made the call, - the records only show that the call came from Owen's phone. Understand?

The subject was who was told not to come that afternoon. It was Spedding.

I understand a lot. I have been across this case since the first day. The loss of a little boy is heart wrenching for many.
.

 

[LRitz]

Then the FF car would be seen going the other way on the tennis club CCTV and the FGM car would be seen heading to Lakewood and back. But they are not. Also the FF car would have been blocking the carport entrance so the cars would have needed to be swapped over on both leaving and returning. Doesn't make much sense. Why would they do this? He's got a brand new Land Rover he was obviously pleased with. Why swap it for a crappy Mazda 3?

Good point about the carport and driveway 31550.

So what if FF drives Land Rover past tennis club. Doubles back to Benaroon and parks in the lower driveway. Leaves for Lakewood then around 9 in the Mazda. Arrives lakewood in time to start call at 9:16. This fits in with a 10 minute drive to reach Lakewood.
FM drives Land Rover with William at around 9:40, after the photos. This could fit in with the Crabbes hearing the car. And if the car was on the lower driveway it could have made more of that "gravel" noise which may have been a bit unusual for the Crabbes to hear as that driveway is not used by the FGM. Also there is the report (mentioned recently in a post) that Jubelin said there was a witness that saw a 4 wheel drive leave Benaroon at speed. But we do not know what time this was. Could it have been FM in the LandRover.
FM returns at 10:15, again fits in with Crabbes hearing a car. Parks on lower driveway. Interesting in a recent posted photo there is green hose on the wall there. Give the car a quick rinse, if it had dust from its drive. The water would not have been obvious on the gravel, like on a concrete drive. Go inside and have a cup of tea. Wait until FF returns and parks Mazda and then move Land Rover on to the top concrete driveway. So both cars are parked before they alert neighbours. And Mazda is even warmer than the Land Rover.

Would like to know if someone really was interviewed that said "nice car" in Lakewood. At the early stage no one was asked about seeing cars in Lakewood. A witness would not know what the FF looked like and would not have known what car he had. AFAIK the public were asked if they drove past the tennis Club, Or if they saw any cars around Benaroon Drive around 10:00am

Edit: From photos we can see that the police used the lower driveway for their cars. So any trace of a car being parked there or being washed would have been impossible to find.

 

[31550]

The subject was who was told not to come that afternoon. It was Spedding.

I understand a lot. I have been across this case since the first day. The loss of a little boy is heart wrenching for many.
.

No it was not Spedding. It was Owen. According to FGM walkthrough.

Spedding was not told not to come. They WANTED him to come according to FGM testimony.

 

[31550]

Good point about the carport and driveway 31550.

So what if FF drives Land Rover past tennis club. Doubles back to Benaroon and parks in the lower driveway. Leaves for Lakewood then around 9 in the Mazda. Arrives lakewood in time to start call at 9:16. This fits in with a 10 minute drive to reach Lakewood.
FM drives Land Rover with William at around 9:40, after the photos. This could fit in with the Crabbes hearing the car. And if the car was on the lower driveway it could have made more of that "gravel" noise which may have been a bit unusual for the Crabbes to hear as that driveway is not used by the FGM. Also there is the report (mentioned recently in a post) that Jubelin said there was a witness that saw a 4 wheel drive leave Benaroon at speed. But we do not know what time this was. Could it have been FM in the LandRover.
FM returns at 10:15, again fits in with Crabbes hearing a car. Parks on lower driveway. Interesting in a recent posted photo there is green hose on the wall there. Give the car a quick rinse, if it had dust from its drive. The water would not have been obvious on the gravel, like on a concrete drive. Go inside and have a cup of tea. Wait until FF returns and parks Mazda and then move Land Rover on to the top concrete driveway. So both cars are parked before they alert neighbours. And Mazda is even warmer than the Land Rover.

Would like to know if someone really was interviewed that said "nice car" in Lakewood. At the early stage no one was asked about seeing cars in Lakewood. A witness would not know what the FF looked like and would not have known what car he had. AFAIK the public were asked if they drove past the tennis Club, Or if they saw any cars around Benaroon Drive around 10:00am

Interesting. Seems possible logistically. But why would FF go out and come back? Can't be anything to do with William as he is alive at 9.37 when FF is in Lakewood.
It just means FM took a different car, but why say she took her mother's car? To conceal forensic evidence in the Land Rover?
Also means with the car swapping this was a deliberate tactic.
BUT the problem is that FGM car is not seen passing the tennis club in either direction. And to deliberately avoid the tennis club CCTV implies a planned conspiracy BEFORE William disappears. IMO this is tinfoil hat stuff. But others may think differently.

 

[InTheBleachers]

No it was not Spedding. It was Owen. According to FGM walkthrough.

Spedding was not told not to come. They WANTED him to come according to FGM testimony.

Phone records and Spedding's interview say different.
Believe what you will, not a problem to me.

 

[LRitz]

No it was not Spedding. It was Owen. According to FGM walkthrough.

Spedding was not told not to come. They WANTED him to come according to FGM testimony.

Agree.
And poor Spedding was grilled about not seeing the 9:03 call, or denying the call, but it had gone straight to voicemail or something and was just a technical thing.
Funny that FGM walkthrough she denies phone calls that morning in her walkthrough. Though you would think that FM would have told FGM that she would ring Spedding, and get his number. So FM did not tell FGM. Or FGM forgot. Or it is just part of the confusing FGM's account of the morning that confused the whole timeline

 

[31550]

Phone records and Spedding's interview say different.
Believe what you will, not a problem to me.

You will have to post your sources if you want me to believe that.