COLLINGWOOD. NEXT 5 YEARS?

[MoreMoore]

2028

B. Maynard. Reef. IQ
HB. Ed Richards

20

Ed Richards

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

MG

201.4

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.3

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

198.3

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

232.4

4star

. McStay Houston
C. Jaicos. Perryman. Mcguane
HF. Hill Moore Mcreery
F. HH. Condon. Shultz

R. Smit. Allan Naicos

Int Demattea Degoey Jiath Parker

Plus three years of drafting and trading
I think we will be ok

Key positions need to be addressed

 

[Eric Shin]

2025 - Flag
2026 - Flag
2027 - Flag
2028 - Flag
2029 - Flag

Hopefully


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

2028

B. Maynard. Reef. IQ
HB. Ed Richards . McStay Houston
C. Jaicos. Perryman. Mcguane
HF. Hill Moore Mcreery
F. HH. Condon. Shultz

R. Smit. Allan Naicos

Int Demattea Degoey Jiath Parker

Plus three years of drafting and trading
I think we will be ok

Key positions need to be addressed

You're protecting a team 5 years from now with virtually nothing but current players.

Collingwood's 2023 premiership team featured 9 players that weren't on our list in 2018.

You've projected Ed Richards as a recruit and McGuane and Condon as draftees, but more than a third of our 2028 best 22 isn't currently on our list, so it's impossible to project.

 

[Chunky Steak]

Collingwood over the next five years?

2025 Premiers, of course!
2026 Lose in Prelim Final
2027 Lose in Elim Final
2028 14th
2029 19th


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Getting a second flag out of this group arguably makes it worth it, but this puts us into an enforced full rebuild like the Tigers and on a bit of a collision course with the Devils and their priority picks etc.

But I don't think we will bottom out this hard as we seem to be adopting more of a Geelong-type philosophy rather than what Richmond did. If we continue the trend of bringing in players of the quality of Hill, McStay, Schultz, Perryman, Membrey and Houston each year, along with young talent like McGuane, Parker and Allan and find some late draft pick gold (which is where Hine tends to shine anyway) I really think we avoid dipping too far out of the eight and evolve the team on the run.

 

[jathanas]

Getting a second flag out of this group arguably makes it worth it, but this puts us into an enforced full rebuild like the Tigers and on a bit of a collision course with the Devils and their priority picks etc.

But I don't think we will bottom out this hard as we seem to be adopting more of a Geelong-type philosophy rather than what Richmond did. If we continue the trend of bringing in players of the quality of Hill, McStay, Schultz, Perryman, Membrey and Houston each year, along with young talent like McGuane, Parker and Allan and find some late draft pick gold (which is where Hine tends to shine anyway) I really think we avoid dipping too far out of the eight and evolve the team on the run.

Beautifully majestic avatar.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Getting a second flag out of this group arguably makes it worth it.

It 100% makes it worth it. At this point in the league, 1 flag every 15 years is a pretty good result. 1 every 10 years is a GREAT result. Winning 2 in 3 years would be amazing, and you'd have to take it easy on the club through the resultant rebuild.

But I don't think we will bottom out this hard as we seem to be adopting more of a Geelong-type philosophy rather than what Richmond did.

The problem with Richmond is that they were half-pregnant. They dumped multiple years of 1st round picks to get Taranto and Hopper, and now they've turfed 4 of the 6 premiership players under 30 they had left, which basically removes them from any relevance for the remainder of all but two of their premiership players' careers.

In two years time, the only premiership players they'll have left will be Balta and Short, and they'll have a team full of players 21 and under, with a real gap in mature aged players.

If they had made these moves two years ago when they got Taranto and Hopper, they could have instead retained those two first round picks and gained a heap more, and they'd all be coming into their 2nd/3rd seasons now, instead of 2-3 years from now, and the rebuild would be further along.

I think the central premise is that you've got to be really decisive about which way you're going to go with it. You can't trade out two years of first round picks only to immediately change course and dump all your senior players for picks.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

There is a lot of doom and gloom predicted over the next 5 years by the footy 'experts', due to our aging list. But personally I don't see it being that bad. Collingwood as a club, has always been able to attract players from other clubs and I don't see that changing during this 5 year period, even if we bottom out like North have.
I also feel that we have already replaced a lot of our older players with younger versions, not necessarily totally pushing them out of the side, but at least into role player positions. They are not as important as they use to be and it is just a matter of time before they retire to be replaced by the back up role players.
Here is my take on what is happening with our most senior 9 players:

Pendlebury was a star, but he has been pushed out of the midfield not totally, but still for a majority of the time by N Daicos. Perryman also covers his defensive mid work quite well.

Cox always was an important role player and we don't really have his replacement, but there is potential with both Condon and Smit imo. We may play a McStay type as well as a possibility, or we may import someone like Hayes into the future.

Elliott has already been replaced by a combo of Hill and Schultz. Although he can still be useful in the side. I see HH taking his spot into the future when he gets back, although playing a slightly different role. Overall I feel that Elliott has already been mostly replaced.

Despite having some unique traits and being very adaptable, Howe's intercept position has and is mostly covered by a combination of players. Moore, Frampton and Dean can all intercept and play on talls. Maynard can play on anyone similar to Howe and Houston, Perryman, Crisp and IQ can all play on the smalls that Howe sometimes covers.

Sidebottom as a winger can be and has been covered by IQ, Lipinski and even McCreery can play the position. His defensive mid position can be covered by Mitchell, Pendlebury, Perryman and McCreery. His half back running is also covered by Crisp and now Houston is the big upgrade.

Mihocek is the big issue long term. However I feel if we get Membrey it's at least short term coverage for 2 years, that can slot in and play a similar role. WHE also played this role as our full forward last year and is smart, if a bit undersized. But I feel a mobile tall with a good tank and solid ground game is a must for the not to distant future. It's a shame AJ doesn't look like the real deal, but you never know.

Mitchell, WHE and Crisp are the next 3 that we need to cover but I feel that Perryman, Houston and Allen cover these positions quite well. Perryman shows WHE like positional cover, with both being as a side note Collingwood supporters as kids. Houston is a massive upgrade on any half back work that Crisp or WHE does.

Don't get me wrong covering 9 players, even bit players is a big deal particularly from the leadership side of things. We will need to stagger it over the next 3-4 years, but it is doable.

We have already found some rough gems on the edge of the team, that with a little polish could really shine like HH, Parker, Jiath and Allen. We have also brought in two of the top trades/free agents with Houston and Perryman and a solid reliable consistent backup with Membrey (hopefully). We also have unlisted future potential like Condon and McGuane. All up that covers the 9 veterans. But who knows if all of these make the grade. Although there are still the future imports of trades and drafts going forward.

 

[sr36]

There is a lot of doom and gloom predicted over the next 5 years by the footy 'experts' due to our aging list. But personally I don't see it being that bad. Collingwood as a club has always been able to attract players from other clubs and I don't see that changing during this time even if we bottom out like North have.
I also feel that we have already replaced a lot of our older players with younger versions not necessarily totally pushing them out of the side but at least into role player positions. They are not as important as they use to be and it is just a matter of time before they retire to be replaced by the back up role players.

Pendlebury was a star but he has been pushed out of the midfield not totally but still for a majority of the time by N Daicos. Perryman also covers his defensive mid work quite well.

Cox always was an important role player and we don't really have his replacement but there is potential with both Condon and Smit imo. We my play a McStay type as well as a possibility or we may import someone like Hayes as well into the future.

Elliott has already been replaced by a combo of Hill and Schultz. Although he can still be useful in the side. I see HH taking his spot into the future if he can get back to playing well again playing a slightly different role but I feel he has already been mostly replaced.

Despite having some unique traits and being very adaptable Howe's intercept position has and is mostly covered by a combination of players. Moore, Billy and Dean can all intercept and play on talls. Maynard can play on anyone similar to Howe and Houston, Perryman, Crisp and IQ can all play on the smalls that Howe sometimes covers.

Sidebottom as a winger can be and has been covered by IQ, Lipinski and even McCreery can play the position. His defensive mid position can be covered by Mitchell, Pendlebury, Perryman and McCreery. His half back running is also covered by Crisp and now Houston is the big upgrade.

Mihocek is the big issue long term. However I feel if we get Membrey it's a short term coverage for 2 years at least that can slot in and play a similar role. WHE also played the role as our full forward last year and is smart if a bit undersized. But I feel a mobile tall with a good tank and solid ground game is a must for the not to distant future. It's a shame AJ doesn't look like the real deal but you never know.

Mitchell, WHE and Crisp are the next 3 that we need to cover but I feel that Perryman, Houston and Allen cover these positions quite well. Perryman shows WHE like positional cover with both being as a side note Collingwood supporters as kids. Houston is a massive upgrade on any half back work that Crisp or WHE does.

Don't get me wrong covering 9 players, even bit players is a big deal particularly from the leadership side of things. We will need to stagger it over the next 3-4 years but it is doable.

We have already found some rough gems on the edge of the team that with a little polish could really shine like HH, Parker, Jiath and Allen. We have also brought in two of the top trades/free agents with Houston and Perryman and a solid reliable consistent backup with Membrey (hopefully). We also have unlisted future potential like Condon and McGuane. All up that covers the 9 veterans. But who knows if all of these make the grade. Although there are still the future imports of trades and drafts going forward.

We'll be replacing some good players, but have already done so to an extent with a few of them. I think Howe and Checkers are still really important players for us that we're going to have to target recruits for over the next two years.

 

[Vicky Park]

Stability at the club, in leadership and administration, may be the most important factor driving success over the next five years.

After the flag, I thought we had that. And then Wright left. Then others. All for genuine reasons, as reported, but still a lot of change following a flag.

We need to stabilise the ship, and Kelly is the key. I’ve had doubts about him, but others support him, so I’m trying to keep an open mind.

If you look at Geelong - again! - throughout their prolonged period of success (finals if not flags) they have maintained stability at the club. Or if they haven’t, they are very good at ‘burying’ it.

Richmond in their recent glorious era, had a stable and strong administration. When it fell apart, they had three flags to make them feel better.

Melbourne with turmoil in clubland - on the slide.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Howe and Checkers are still really important players for us that we're going to have to target recruits for over the next two years.

To be fair, we've been targeting replacements for Howe - Both Jakob Ryan and Tew Jiath were recruited for that kind of role, but it remains to be seen whether they'll eventual develop into productive AFL players.

 

[sr36]

To be fair, we've been targeting replacements for Howe - Both Jakob Ryan and Tew Jiath were recruited for that kind of role, but it remains to be seen whether they'll eventual develop into productive AFL players.

I'm not sure if those two really were, as they look more like runners than blokes who will play as intercepting talls to me, but we chased both Doedee and Battle as Free agents who I'd say definitely were, and Keane as a trade target.

 

[manicpie]

To be fair, we've been targeting replacements for Howe - Both Jakob Ryan and Tew Jiath were recruited for that kind of role, but it remains to be seen whether they'll eventual develop into productive AFL players.

I reckon both were recruited as running defenders.

 

[timokane]

This is my cystal ball for the Pies next 5 years.

2025 in the flag window
2026 levelling out one last squeeze as in a kind of last chance saloon
2027 the reset potentailly rebulid we had to have
2028 the re launch
2029 back in the flag window

By 2030 say pies can realistically win 1 or 2 more flags by then.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

We'll be replacing some good players, but have already done so to an extent with a few of them. I think Howe and Checkers are still really important players for us that we're going to have to target recruits for over the next two years.

Howes so adaptable and unique so you never really replace those types. However after saying that his role isn't that hard to cover you could even say that Maynard can cover what he does.
Checkers is the big one for me, I like the Membrey inclusion because it offers some short term relief although he is down a peg or two on Mihocek's output. However long term we have no one and those 40-50 goal tallish forwards are hard to replace particularly ones who also play well off the deck and work as hard as he does.
But Cox is the unique one that when he has been in the team changes the team in a good way. Cox in the term usually turns us around from losing games to winning them. We won a majority of games with Cox in the side and lost far more with him out. But despite this he doesn't really do that much apart from straighten us up and make a very good rucking option, particularly as a backup.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Stability at the club, in leadership and administration, may be the most important factor driving success over the next five years.

After the flag, I thought we had that. And then Wright left. Then others. All for genuine reasons, as reported, but still a lot of change following a flag.

We need to stabilise the ship, and Kelly is the key. I’ve had doubts about him, but others support him, so I’m trying to keep an open mind.

If you look at Geelong - again! - throughout their prolonged period of success (finals if not flags) they have maintained stability at the club. Or if they haven’t, they are very good at ‘burying’ it.

Richmond in their recent glorious era, had a stable and strong administration. When it fell apart, they had three flags to make them feel better.

Melbourne with turmoil in clubland - on the slide.

Kelly worries me as a CEO. Its just a possibility but if the rumours around that indigenous culture guy are some what true and with the loss of a lot of key personal it suggests that he might be a little bit unprofessional in terms of the way he communicates. At the moment its just a feeling I have but he comes across as a blokes, bloke, king of the banter, that rubs certain types the wrong way.
Again just a feeling I have and I'm sure he would be a good bloke to hang around but you really want one of the major faces of the club to come across as the ultimate professional.

 

[sr36]

Howes so adaptable and unique so you never really replace those types. However after saying that his role isn't that hard to cover you could even say that Maynard can cover what he does.
Checkers is the big one for me, I like the Membrey inclusion because it offers some short term relief although he is down a peg or two on Mihocek's output. However long term we have no one and those 40-50 goal tallish forwards are hard to replace particularly ones who also play well off the deck and work as hard as he does.
But Cox is the unique one that when he has been in the team changes the team in a good way. Cox in the term usually turns us around from losing games to winning them. We won a majority of games with Cox in the side and lost far more with him out. But despite this he doesn't really do that much apart from straighten us up and make a very good rucking option, particularly as a backup.

I oscillate on Cox because he is still so inconsistent.

But agree that he's hard to replace. As a forward, what he gives us is a genuine pack threat, who plucks some marks. But more importantly it gets more balls to ground as he has to be played quite defensively and then with forward stoppages, his ruckwork is dangerous and sets up some stoppage scores, whilst also enabling Cameron to sit back and use his marking to help lock the ball in - plus being a good second ruck. The good version of Coxy is pretty important, when he turns up.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I reckon both were recruited as running defenders.

They're both a similar size to Howe and noted for being good in the air pre-draft, regardless of whether they could live up to playing Howe's role, there definitely would have been SOME scope to believe that they could do it.

No club is drafting 188-190cm defenders and expecting them to be useless in the air.

FWIW, I'm a big supporter of giving Reef a year to attempt to make it as a defender, and he could potentially fit the bill as that type of intercepter too.

 

[barrackers]

If Richmond think because they've monopoloised the top 20 in a strong draft and everyone's a hit , they are kidding themselves. Go have a look at the picks GWS recieved in 2011/2012 , was no assurance

An another issue with a young core all around the same age that we seen with gc and gws was player retention. A big factor, which won’t be as strong with Richmond is location and the want to return to their home state. Another two factors could potentially be an issue though, opportunity and wage. No doubt other clubs will target players if they turn out ok.

 

[YouBeauty]

People feel safe using history as a reference to dictate how the future should work out. The sport has only been professional for around 25 years everything we know is changing and will continue to be challenged.. there is a mindset that once you hit 30 you're too old and no good is one that will be proven wrong.

 

[sr36]

An another issue with a young core all around the same age that we seen with gc and gws was player retention. A big factor, which won’t be as strong with Richmond is location and the want to return to their home state. Another two factors could potentially be an issue though, opportunity and wage. No doubt other clubs will target players if they turn out ok.

Plus tiges are an established recently successful club - you'd back them in to develop kids better than GC did.

Over this draft and the next one - they'll add something like Pick 1,1,6,10,11,18, 20 - most of them in a highly rated draft. That's better in terms of picks than we'll draft in the first round over the course a decade.

If it goes well, they should get a few top liners and can trade for players for a fair while to get themselves back up pretty quickly with a strong long-term base to build around.

 

[Vicky Park]

Kelly worries me as a CEO. Its just a possibility but if the rumours around that indigenous culture guy are some what true and with the loss of a lot of key personal it suggests that he might be a little bit unprofessional in terms of the way he communicates. At the moment its just a feeling I have but he comes across as a blokes, bloke, king of the banter, that rubs certain types the wrong way.
Again just a feeling I have and I'm sure he would be a good bloke to hang around but you really want one of the major faces of the club to come across as the ultimate professional.

My concern with Kelly is similar, and relates to how he operates within a corporate environment, with all the contemporary standards around corporate behaviour. This is not to say he isn’t highly capable and intelligent and a master operator in the sports management field. It’s more of a concern with that skill set translating to running our club. And God knows that would be a minefield for someone who might lack ‘sensitivity’ (choosing my words carefully here) with all our various teams and community engagement forums.

I’m also not suggesting he has acted in a way which transgresses corporate standards - accepting that the case involving the former employee is yet to play out.

 

[manicpie]

I oscillate on Cox because he is still so inconsistent.

But agree that he's hard to replace. As a forward, what he gives us is a genuine pack threat, who plucks some marks. But more importantly it gets more balls to ground as he has to be played quite defensively and then with forward stoppages, his ruckwork is dangerous and sets up some stoppage scores, whilst also enabling Cameron to sit back and use his marking to help lock the ball in - plus being a good second ruck. The good version of Coxy is pretty important, when he turns up.

I don't even know where to start with that

 

[76woodenspooners]

Well they are as how many have we had.

That’s because Collingwood typically prioritize team success. For teams that do that, it doesn’t make sense to throw all their resources at one player.

 

[sideswipe]

My concern with Kelly is similar, and relates to how he operates within a corporate environment, with all the contemporary standards around corporate behaviour. This is not to say he isn’t highly capable and intelligent and a master operator in the sports management field. It’s more of a concern with that skill set translating to running our club. And God knows that would be a minefield for someone who might lack ‘sensitivity’ (choosing my words carefully here) with all our various teams and community engagement forums.

I’m also not suggesting he has acted in a way which transgresses corporate standards - accepting that the case involving the former employee is yet to play out.

I'd say the most likely possibility is that this is a sacked employee trying it on.

He was suspended on full pay by the Club on May 1 2024, then terminated on May 6. Organisations don't do that for no reason.

My guess is that sounds like something related to Cleaver doing something unacceptable.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I'd say it the most likely possibility is that this is a sacked employee trying it on.

He was suspended on full pay by the Club on May 1 2024, then terminated on May 6. Organisations don't do that for no reason.

My guess is that sounds like something related to Cleaver doing something unacceptable.

This doesn’t have to be framed as a “Who’s right, Kelly or Cleaver?”

Cleaver may well have done something unacceptable and there be solid grounds for terminating his employment. And he could very well be foaming with disgruntlement.

But that doesn’t mean Cleaver’s claims against Kelly are just made up.