Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[BFew]

In what way is a Toyota Camry not consistent with a white Commodore station wagon?

Edit: I think the prosecution is seeking to advance alternative arguments that the accused was the person driving the white-coloured station wagon seen by witnesses, that wagon being either:

• the Telstra-issued 1996 Commodore he was driving at the time; or
• the 1992 Camry to which he had access at the time (e.g. wife's car).

Do both of the above have distinctive curved brake lights?

Not that it might matter in the wider scheme of the case which of the cars he had access to that night, he was driving that night.

 

[BFew]

If BRE’s ex-wife claims he visited her on the night that SS disappeared asking her to go see the fireworks and she rejected him, that suggests it was a more random spur of the moment decision to attack SS, not the highly sophisticated culprit that was suggested.

He may have began some form of planned it, in the many hours between having dinner at his in-laws, and when the alleged attack place just after 2am.

That's not exactly spur of the moment. But I get your valid point.

 

[Kurve]

2 minutes ago
Jane Rimmer was alive when taken to Wellard

Ben Anderson
We are back after the short morning break.

State prosecutor Carmel Barbgallo is now telling the court about the morning Jane Rimmer's body was found.

She has told the hearing that in June 1996, Wellard was a semi-rural area and looked nothing like it does today.

She said early hours of June 9 when they were woken by sounds of a woman yelling, near the corner of Johnson Road and Miller Road. They heard the sound of vehicle take off.

Another couple heard on the early of that morning that couple were woken to an sound of a woman screaming.

Ms Barbgallo said the screams heard were consistent with a woman being attacked and that the State says that Jane Rimmer was alive when she was taken to Wellard.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Wasn’t the profile of the CSK of someone who was meticulous, and as a result the murders were premeditated and planned to some effect? If BRE’s ex-wife claims he visited her on the night that SS disappeared asking her to go see the fireworks and she rejected him, that suggests it was a more random spur of the moment decision to attack SS, not the highly sophisticated culprit that was suggested.

The two are not inconsistent with one another. The accused may have been meticulous about preparing a rape kit (easily explained if found as relating to his Telstra work) but the decision to hunt that particular night may have been spontaneous.

Interesting to hear that someone claims to have heard screams in Wellard the night Jane disappeared, and her body was found there a few months after. Yet in the same vein, someone claims to have heard screams in Mosman Park the night SS disappeared and the vehicle matches something BRE was driving at the times, but its difficult to dump a body in that area without it being discovered. So if he did indeed attack her in Mosman Park, he would have had to drive her presumed unconscious body elsewhere to kill and dump. Huge risk.

If she was unconscious she wasn't a "body", she was an unconscious woman. But why presume she was unconscious? She could simply be transported under duress. For example, the killer could have threatened to stab her unless she complied.

 

[Eaglette01]

2 minutes ago

emily.moulton
The court has been shown where Jane's body was found in Wellard and where her wrist watch was found.

That morning a couple were riding horses along the road, as they road their horses, the man fell off horse.

As he collected his belonging (sic) he found a Guess watch - the same as the one Jane was wearing.

AN ANIMAL HELPED WITH THE DISCOVERY OF JANE'S WATCH - BLESS THAT HORSE (A MEDAL IS DUE)

Edit: Jane's wrist watch was found the next day for (sic) a horse rider on the road.
The man, who did not realise its significance at the time, took the watch as it was in good condition.

Edit: continued: On the same day Jane was found, another couple found a wooden pocket knife near Mortimer Road.

The man collected the knife and continued travelling and came across the woman who found Jane Rimmer.

The couple stayed at the scene until police arrived.

The police seized the knife.

Ms Barbgallo said this brand of knife was issued to Telstra employees.

The prosecution has now turned to the moment when Jane Rimmer's body was found.

Ms Barbgallo told the court late on the afternoon of August 3 a family were driving along Walcott Road near a horse riding school when they decided to stop their car to chase a rooster and pick lillies.

The mother saw a pathway in search of the flowers and it was as she walked along it she saw the naked body of a woman.

She immediately called out to her husband and told him what she had found.

The husband went to wife's aid then took children away to the closest house to call police.

Jane's body was face down.

Ms Barbgallo said Jane's body was found naked, face down, within metres of verge under a dense covering of trees, with most of her legs, arms and head covered by branches.

She said the way Jane was found was significant to what injuries she received prior to her death.

She told the court forensic officers examined the twigs and branches that covered Jane and in the years since Jane was discovered there has been no evidence of forensic significance from branches.

The court has been told the post-mortem examination was carried out on August 4, 1996.

Ms Barbgallo said the doctor who carried out the post mortem has since died.

She said the post mortem revealed Jane's body was in an advanced state of decomposition adding her hair formed an important part of the State's case in relation to the fibre evidence.

She said a diamond shaped injury was found on Jane's neck 10-17 cm in area. The "defect" on her left was consisten (sic) with cutting or "sawing" from a bladed weapon or possibly from animal predators.

Ms Barbgallo said Jane's left arm was found in an unusual position at the scene and was consistent with her being dragged from the arms and put into that position prior to rigor mortis.

She said there evidence of a sharp edge defect resembling a cut – being indicative of classic self defence injuries or to “fend off an attack on her by a person wielding a bladed or sharp-edged implement”.

Ms Barbgallo said the neck defect or neck injury was inflicted prior to death. She said it was extensive, and it was far in advance.

She said state says the neck defect was caused by the person who killed her and whoever inflicted this injury intended to kill her.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Do both of the above have distinctive curved brake lights?

The Camry lights have that "bubble" shape whereas the Commodore's are more in a stack formation.

The Camry lights are relatively similar to the rear lights on a VR/VS sedan.

 

[kingswood71]

https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/1992-toyota-camry-csi-auto/SPOT-ITM-280364/

 

[Visions]

The two are not inconsistent with one another. The accused may have been meticulous about preparing a rape kit (easily explained if found as relating to his Telstra work) but the decision to hunt that particular night may have been spontaneous.

If she was unconscious she wasn't a "body", she was an unconscious woman. But why presume she was unconscious? She could simply be transported under duress. For example, the killer could have threatened to stab her unless she complied.

Sure there is the possibility that she may have been made to stay silent under duress, but my opinion is that knowing how dangerous the situation had become she would have continued to scream to bring attention to herself and try to escape. That would mean that the CSK would have to subdue her, killing her in the car is too risky, so he would have to render her unconscious, and then take her elsewhere to kill her and dump her body. Even unconscious its still a big risk driving her to a different location through residential suburbs.

 

[BFew]

https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/1992-toyota-camry-csi-auto/SPOT-ITM-280364/

View attachment 784319

Are we sure that is the correct pic.
Or could it be the wrong pic and for an older Camry?

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Didn’t realise this trial was beginning today. So just catching up on what’s happened lately in relation to the case, and have some random thoughts.

Wasn’t the profile of the CSK of someone who was meticulous, and as a result the murders were premeditated and planned to some effect? If BRE’s ex-wife claims he visited her on the night that SS disappeared asking her to go see the fireworks and she rejected him, that suggests it was a more random spur of the moment decision to attack SS, not the highly sophisticated culprit that was suggested.

Interesting to hear that someone claims to have heard screams in Wellard the night Jane disappeared, and her body was found there a few months after. Yet in the same vein, someone claims to have heard screams in Mosman Park the night SS disappeared and the vehicle matches something BRE was driving at the times, but its difficult to dump a body in that area without it being discovered. So if he did indeed attack her in Mosman Park, he would have had to drive her presumed unconscious body elsewhere to kill and dump. Huge risk.

As for the DNA evidence and the suggestions of secondary DNA transfer. If BRE was a cleanskin, then it might make you think there is some merit to it. But BRE has pleaded guilty to 2 separate attacks against women where his DNA was found, and this has been matched to DNA found on CG. Going to take some powerful defence work to show contamination on this one. It not like he worked at a lab and could contaminate the samples like the Phantom of Heilbronn (what a brilliant story that is).

Just looked that up V, incredible story! Truth is stranger than fiction. Bit like I think CSK evidence is going to be! Hold on tight folks, think it's going to be a bumpy (weird) ride!

 

[Hai_Newman]

Sure there is the possibility that she may have been made to stay silent under duress, but my opinion is that knowing how dangerous the situation had become she would have continued to scream to bring attention to herself and try to escape. That would mean that the CSK would have to subdue her, killing her in the car is too risky, so he would have to render her unconscious, and then take her elsewhere to kill her and dump her body. Even unconscious its still a big risk driving her to a different location through residential suburbs.

He has a history of stuffing cloths in the mouth...some gaff tape readily a valuable too.

 

[BonzaRam]

In what way is a Toyota Camry not consistent with a white Commodore station wagon?

Edit: I think the prosecution is seeking to advance alternative arguments that the accused was the person driving the white-coloured station wagon seen by witnesses, that wagon being either:

• the Telstra-issued 1996 Commodore he was driving at the time; or
• the 1992 Camry to which he had access at the time (e.g. wife's car).

Something very odd going on here. At the time of Sarah's disappearance he had Camry as a work car, it was 9 June 1996 when he was allocated the Commodore.

"Telstra records indicate that the accused was allocated a 1996 VS Series 1 Holden Commodore station wagon (for work and private use) as at 9 June 1996. "

The Prosecution Case - Paragraph 11

THE STATE OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA -v- EDWARDS [2019] WASC 87 (20 March 2019)

 

[kingswood71]

Are we sure that is the correct pic.
Or could it be the wrong pic and for an older Camry?

Dunno
This link has a 1992 for sale...Lights look the same as in the pic I posted earlier...

1992 TOYOTA CAMRY CSI SV21 - JFFD3736912 - JUST CARS

Click to find out more about this 1992 toyota camry csi sv21 sold in windsor gardens sa 5087. Stock Number: JFFD3736912 at JUST CARS

www.justcars.com.au

 

[kingswood71]

Something very odd going on here. At the time of Sarah's disappearance he had Camry as a work car, it was 9 June 1996 when he was allocated the Commodore.

"Telstra records indicate that the accused was allocated a 1996 VS Series 1 Holden Commodore station wagon (for work and private use) as at 9 June 1996. "

The Prosecution Case - Paragraph 11

THE STATE OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA -v- EDWARDS [2019] WASC 87 (20 March 2019)

No. That means he had one AS AT 9 June....which was the day JR vanished, not that he was allocated one that day

 

[Eaglette01]

Possibly Carmel is reading from a brief sheet and some pleb-lawyer has ****ed up the vehicles - typo that 6 or 7 DPP Govt workers haven't picked up ?
Won't be the first mistake.................. IMO
Nothing would surprise me these days.

 

[Kurve]

The cannabis plants connection.

by Emily Moulton

The discovery of Ciara's Glennon body

Resuming her opening address Ms Barbagallo has told the court that on April 3, 1997 a man searching cannabis plants was driving down Pipdinny Road, Eglington when he reversed down a section of the road. He walked through bushland when his attention was drawn to a distince "pungent" smell. He pulled back the branches and saw part of a body.

After discovering the body, he drove to his girlfriend's house and phoned police.

Ms Barbagallo said Ciara's body was found in bush vegetation around 45kms north of Claremont.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

He pulled back the branches and saw part of a body.

 

[Kurve]

Ciara's site is being described as a mirror image of Jane's.


a few seconds ago

by Emily Moulton

The court was told Ciara's body was found 50 metres from the road, with her face semi down beneath vegetation, lying between two tall Australian grass trees and bush scrub, her body was completely covered with vegetation that had been torn from nearby trees at were at least two metres from the ground

"We say the person who did this was a very tall person," she said.

Ms Barbagallo Ciara's body was placed down in a similar way to Jane Rimmer describing it as "mirror image".

 

[Feerits Elf]

by Emily Moulton

The court was told Ciara's body was found 50 metres from the road, with her face semi down beneath vegetation, lying between two tall Australian grass trees and bush scrub, her body was completely covered with vegetation that had been torn from nearby trees at were at least two metres from the ground

"We say the person who did this was a very tall person," she said.

Ms Barbagallo Ciara's body was placed down in a similar way to Jane Rimmer describing it as "mirror image".

Who is Emily Moulton and why is her copy so shitty?

 

[Kurve]

Who is Emily Moulton and why is her copy so shitty?

Journalist with Perth Now and affiliated. Some others have taken over the updates now.

Edit: They're sharing

 

[Kurve]

WA Today.

2.37pm
Ciara's post-mortem revealed
During a post-mortem examination of Ciara's body a large defect was discovered on her neck, and two large defects were found on her upper and lower arms.
Two of her fingernails were broken off - the left thumb and left middle finger - while the rest were "relatively long" and well manicured.
"The ends of Ms Glennon's fingernails were cut off ... and placed into individual, pristine, sterile yellow top containers," Ms Barbagallo said.
The state will rely on DNA found underneath Ciara's fingernails, in particular her broken fingernails, as part of its case.

 

[Kurve]

This is awful but I'll put it here because it's also important to the case against.

by Emily Moulton

There were three significant defects, Ms Barbagallo told the court.

A 30cm long defect that travelled downward from her face at the right temple between ear and eye right down to the side of neck.

A 21cm long defect that turned to right across right side top of chest to shoulder.

And a 12cm defect that turned upward across the top of her shoulder.

She said some of the injuries on Ciara's body had "sawing type action".

Ms Barbagallo said the injuries on Ciara's body were almost the same as the ones found on Jane Rimmer.

 

[BFew]

Who is Emily Moulton and why is her copy so shitty?

What a horrible job to have.
Live blogging a court case like this
Not easy for anyone to listen and type and get things right first time.
So easy to stuff up.
Lose concentration etc.
Get caught in thought on one thing and miss the next bit.

And we are only part way thru Day 1!

Imagine doing it for 6 months 5 days a week!

 

[Kurve]

What a horrible job to have.
Live blogging a court case like this
Not easy for anyone to listen and type and get things right first time.
So easy to stuff up.
Lose concentration etc.
Get caught in thought on one thing and miss the next bit.

And we are only part way thru Day 1!

Imagine doing it for 6 months 5 days a week!

Maybe struggling a bit today to keep up but when the DNA evidence comes up they'll struggle to stay awake.

 

[AvantGardener]

Can sometimes get caught up in the intrigue of the case and forget how horrifying it must have been for these poor girls. Some of the extracts today are horrible reading.