Game Day AFLW RND 9 - Carlton v Gold Coast Friday 21st October 7.40M (AEDT) @ Metricon

[The Old Dark Navy's]

On a positive note, and I know I've said this already, but Keeley Skepper looks an absolute ripper.

Yes. Natural footballer and competitive beast. Lots to like from her and Sherar.

Kez Peterson Captain-Coach I reckon, after that quarter time segment showed her coaching her group.

She was talking over Matt Skubis, forwards coach.

Well, his line is awful and Hampson coaches the talls who I assume includes tall forwards, not just Moody and Good.

Btw What happened to Jess Jones, mature aged VFL full back who we recruited last year? You'd think she'd be worth a shot.

 

[GalaxyBlue]

Kez Peterson Captain-Coach I reckon, after that quarter time segment showed her coaching her group.

She was talking over Matt Skubis, forwards coach.

That was the mids coach, Wayne Schulz.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

That was the mids coach, Wayne Schulz.

Not good for a coach to not have a commanding presence. He seems almost redundant.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Elyse O'Dea had a piece of play where she launched a kick from the right forward boundary to the advantage of Milford and somehow Milford got nowhere near it.

Not long after she again launched a kick towards Milford who was hopelessly out of position and turned it over. The players were all turning and running towards our goal. The percentage play was to hold the ball, lower the eyes and catch one of our midfielders running down the corridor 30m out.

Just no poise. All guts, no glory.

For an experienced player, O'Dea is incredibly hit and miss.

 

[Jeremias]

And Darcy is playing as a defender to make her accountable. She doesn't work hard enough as a forward. Let's not pretend a goal a game from a full forward is such a great start that we shouldn't move her. We've all called for her to be moved in previous years.

I don't mind throwing the magnets around but Vescio behind the ball is a complete head scratcher.

Darc is the best forward this competition has ever seen and frankly the only one on our list currently who has any semblance of forward craft.

That we can't kick a winning score with them forward isn't a valid reason to move them back.

With one game left this season our leading goal kicker is Moody with 6. I'd kill for a goal per game forward.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Let's check out some stats:

Disposals 227 us, 249 them.
Clearances -14 us, 25 them - Clearly missing Guerin and Goss in our rotation.
Inside 50s 32-32 - All fine there.
Marks inside 50 - 11-2 our way. That shows an ability to find uncontested marks inside 50. It's the setup kick inside 30m that is losing connection.
Disposal efficiency 67% us, 61% them.
Contested possessions 89 us, 122 them. This is partly our uncontested game plan, but if it's a contested possession, it means our players are there as well so we are just losing out strength wise.
Uncontested possessions 133-126 our way.
Marks 57 us, 34 them. Of course, this is the way we want to play. Move the ball, spread from the contests.
Tackles 59-51 our way. No issue there except we are second to the ball or worse, waiting for the opposition to gather instead of attacking the ball ourselves.
Tackles Inside fwd 50 - 10-5 their way. We need a bigger small forward presence. I'd suggest that Gab Pound missing made a difference tonight.
Efficiency inside 50. 34% to them, 19% to us. Well duh, but is this coaching or personnel?
Intercept possessions 65-63 their way. Nothing to see here. It is not our issue.
Turnovers 64-63 our way. Again, this wasn't the issue.
Hitouts 24-19 their way. Moody's injury hurt us. Only 7 hitouts for her.

 

[Coona Blues]

Kez Peterson Captain-Coach I reckon, after that quarter time segment showed her coaching her group.

She was talking over Matt Skubis, forwards coach.

Was actually midfield coach Wayne Schultz according to the call.

 

[Blues_Man]

Geez. I really like Daisy but she's had an absolute 'mare tonight.

Her and Trudgeon are not AFLW standard

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I don't mind throwing the magnets around but Vescio behind the ball is a complete head scratcher.

Darc is the best forward this competition has ever seen and frankly the only one on our list currently who has any semblance of forward craft.

That we can't kick a winning score with them forward isn't a valid reason to move them back.

With one game left this season our leading goal kicker is Moody with 6. I'd kill for a goal per game forward.

I don't see Darcy as being the best forward this competition has ever seen. I see her as pretty much our only forward since day dot. She is sublimely skilled with the ball at her feet, but lacks penetrating on her goalkicking and averages a goal a game being the main target every match. Surely we have all lamented her lack of second efforts and her propensity to keep ducking out the back as our deepest forward? This moves means she can't hide and it also allows us to move the ball out of defence easier due to her ability to read the play. IF we had other forward options, then it's a good move. She should have been moved at least at 3 quarter time however. Milford's running patterns and lack of pressure were hurting us.

Gold Coast flooded back a lot. We found marks but not in scoring range. We simply didn't move it fast enough and we kept Milford as our deepest forward. We needed someone with pace and pressure skills.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Her and Trudgeon are not AFLW standard

But Trudgeon was so good last year. Daisy isn't a defender. I think she can make it but it will have to be further up the ground. She is not long turned 20 so their is scope. It's such a young side.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Also wanting to remind people that Carlton had 10 players out there who are 21 or under. Gold Coast had 8.

Carlton had 3 players in that peak 24-27 age range and two of those are the returning Brooke Walker and rookie basketballer Taylor Ortlepp. Gold Coast had 4.

Not a huge difference but more of their younger players are coming on quicker, but they have had far greater access to the top end of the Qld draft while we have been hampered by expansion drafts.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

harford's drowning without getting wet........diabolical..........

It's the whole team. We need to spend some money on it.

 

[thylacine60]

how does anyone know what is and isn't being spent?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

how does anyone know what is and isn't being spent?

We don't but our line coaches are not doing a good job, and our development seems to be missing.

When you look at it that way though, how do we know it's just a head coach problem as everybody seems to think? It may be, but more likely to be one of many problems.

The last thing we needed after losing so many players was any sort of an injury list.

Defenders - Laloifi, Pound, McEvoy

Midfielders - Hill, McKay, Guerin, Peterson, Moody, Skepper

Forwards - Sherar, Vescio, Austin,

These are the players I am confident about being part of a successful side. However, 4 of them are closer to the end of their careers than the beginning.

9 players to add to that core. Who else will rise from the ashes and stand up? Trudgeon has done it before. Good is useful but prone to skill errors. Dal Pos and O'Dea too inconsistent.

Someone has to rise from the Lee, D Walker, Vickers, Hammans, Velardo group.

Some seem impressed by Schaap. Her goal tonight was fortunate as Moody's kick fell to her standing in space. She doesn't have any penetration on her kicking and isn't actually very quick.

We are in for a world of hurt if we can't make a star out of at least one of Trudgeon, Milford or Gibbs. Key position players don't grow on trees.

I also feel we reached for Goss instead of taking one of a couple of first round sliders. I hope she proves me wrong.

 

[katmanblue]

It's the whole team. We need to spend some money on it.

Could start with not alienating anyone who could kick a ball. The biggest issue this team has is talent walking consistently out the door.

 

[GoBlues!]

Genuine question with a different coach do you think this group is a contender?

Are you the St Kilda president looking for support?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Could start with not alienating anyone who could kick a ball. The biggest issue this team has is talent walking consistently out the door.

Players were alienated were they? Why are certain players still there and working hard?

I just showed that our efficiency was better than Gold Coast's tonight so ... there is that. We still have several good kicks in the side. Grace Egan was a turnover merchant ... did we alienate her by mistake?

Come on katman, if you are going to engage on this, tell me who you have talked to and why you believe them over those currently at the club, and show some objectivity and acknowledge some of the other factors at play as well.

 

[Coona Blues]

Players were alienated were they? Why are certain players still there and working hard?

I just showed that our efficiency was better than Gold Coast's tonight so ... there is that. We still have several good kicks in the side. Grace Egan was a turnover merchant ... did we alienate her by mistake?

Here we go, the definitive affirmation of “better efficiency”. Hugely inflated by repeated chains of inconsequential handballs too often leading to a turn over. Clubs are letting us fuss around with the ball on the periphery, then killing us with efficient, direct entries through the corridor, often waltzing through a poorly structured defence.

Analysis paralysis is a big thing with “followers” these days. Not fair dinkum involved analysis of structural effectiveness. Pathetic reliance on almost irrelevant statistics to further a point of view. The availability of statistics is a positive in the modern game. The ability to accurately interpret them and add context is seemingly a rare commodity.

 

[branedotorg]

Are you the St Kilda president looking for support?

It's kind of what I was wondering, are we (AFLM) Carlton under Teague (underperforming) or St Kilda under Ratten (just ordinary)?

 

[Gingerbread man]

Let's check out some stats:

Disposals 227 us, 249 them.
Clearances -14 us, 25 them - Clearly missing Guerin and Goss in our rotation.
Inside 50s 32-32 - All fine there.
Marks inside 50 - 11-2 our way. That shows an ability to find uncontested marks inside 50. It's the setup kick inside 30m that is losing connection.
Disposal efficiency 67% us, 61% them.
Contested possessions 89 us, 122 them. This is partly our uncontested game plan, but if it's a contested possession, it means our players are there as well so we are just losing out strength wise.
Uncontested possessions 133-126 our way.
Marks 57 us, 34 them. Of course, this is the way we want to play. Move the ball, spread from the contests.
Tackles 59-51 our way. No issue there except we are second to the ball or worse, waiting for the opposition to gather instead of attacking the ball ourselves.
Tackles Inside fwd 50 - 10-5 their way. We need a bigger small forward presence. I'd suggest that Gab Pound missing made a difference tonight.
Efficiency inside 50. 34% to them, 19% to us. Well duh, but is this coaching or personnel?
Intercept possessions 65-63 their way. Nothing to see here. It is not our issue.
Turnovers 64-63 our way. Again, this wasn't the issue.
Hitouts 24-19 their way. Moody's injury hurt us. Only 7 hitouts for her.

You forgot the most embarrassing stat of all,
Crowd attendance of 683

 

[katmanblue]

Players were alienated were they? Why are certain players still there and working hard?

I just showed that our efficiency was better than Gold Coast's tonight so ... there is that. We still have several good kicks in the side. Grace Egan was a turnover merchant ... did we alienate her by mistake?

Come on katman, if you are going to engage on this, tell me who you have talked to and why you believe them over those currently at the club, and show some objectivity and acknowledge some of the other factors at play as well.

Let me ask you this. Is our AFLW program one that players from other sides are clamoring to join or is it one who's players are leaving regularly?

Why?

Who was the last quality player that was traded in since I Taylah?

Hosking (can't remember if it was Jess or Sarah) said they'd left because of how badly the club treated them and that the whole AFLW program at Carlton felt like an afterthought. Media team's effort notwithstanding.

There were reports of a rift in the playing field group (this one second hand). Many of those players have since left.

Another source (who Ive mentioned to you previously) has confirmed the afterthought status of the AFLW program to the board. People like Kinnersley are trying to change that but too many power players really just dgaf.

The my way or the highway leadership style of our Captain is too old school and doesn't resonate with the younger players.

The list management decisions to delist players who have gone on to play good footy elsewhere for several seasons have also been questionable.

Perhaps alienating was the wrong word to use. But from all I've heard only the many of the players simply felt the weren't valued. And have left for sides who've shown them they would be valued.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Coona Blues]

We don't but our line coaches are not doing a good job, and our development seems to be missing.

When you look at it that way though, how do we know it's just a head coach problem as everybody seems to think? It may be, but more likely to be one of many problems.

The last thing we needed after losing so many players was any sort of an injury list.

Defenders - Laloifi, Pound, McEvoy

Midfielders - Hill, McKay, Guerin, Peterson, Moody, Skepper

Forwards - Sherar, Vescio, Austin,

These are the players I am confident about being part of a successful side. However, 4 of them are closer to the end of their careers than the beginning.

9 players to add to that core. Who else will rise from the ashes and stand up? Trudgeon has done it before. Good is useful but prone to skill errors. Dal Pos and O'Dea too inconsistent.

Someone has to rise from the Lee, D Walker, Vickers, Hammans, Velardo group.

Some seem impressed by Schaap. Her goal tonight was fortunate as Moody's kick fell to her standing in space. She doesn't have any penetration on her kicking and isn't actually very quick.

We are in for a world of hurt if we can't make a star out of at least one of Trudgeon, Milford or Gibbs. Key position players don't grow on trees.

I also feel we reached for Goss instead of taking one of a couple of first round sliders. I hope she proves me wrong.

This post has significant relevance. We do have decent “cattle”. A combination of too much reliance on youth in combination with poor structures and scattergun deployment of personnel week to week are killing us. The experienced players, and a couple of young guns need to be the fabric that binds.

A look at our list does give hope for a future resurgence. On field viewing less so. Skills, structures and connectivity are not showing marked improvement outside a couple of players.

Going to address individual players in reverse age order.
Phoebe McWilliams - despite being 37, she shaped as a very pivotal player in her early games. If she maintains the desire to compete, she will remain an integral piece straightening us up from the square.
Christina Bernardi made one appearance off the back of injuries and Jessica Jones is yet to front when she was drafted as mature defensive cover.
Kerryn Pietersen remains a staple. Her best area of deployment remains a quandary. Think she is at her best around and between the arcs as opposed to deep at either end. Can see her playing CHB or CHF, but given our vulnerability through the corridor, perhaps a largely stay at home centre role while the likes of Hill, McKay, Sherar and when fit, Guerin work around the ground. Velardo, Ortlepp and perhaps Goss shape as other contributors.
Darcy Vescio - infuriates me on so many levels. The ridiculous gender identification platform, more encompassing than her, aaagh their performance as a PROFESSIONAL footballer. Get your finger out and attack the pill, have seen you do it and you are irrepressible when you do. Do not go through the motions, lead the girls, from the front.
Vaomua Laloifi - legend, such a selfless worker. Great reader off play. Plays above her weight, needs that taller, harder foil playing beside her to allow an increased rebounding aspect to her game.
Jess Dal Pos - star at GWS seemed to lose fitness or focus, but has returned in good order this season. Smart player, gret link up option who unfortunately does need a tailored role on a wing or high half forward.
Jess Good - still relatively new to the game and improving at a good rate. Happy to present in the back half when taking her turn on ball. Has good synergy with Mua and Big Boy. For mine may have a future as a key back if we can get one of our youngsters fit and combative enough for back up ruck minutes.
Gabriella Pound - wears number 6 with similarities to Simmo. Effective across the park, but as a mature player, that mop up defensive role seems her best deployment.
Brooke Walker - astounded at he defensive role. With Gee moving on, her dash up forward is missed. Needs to assess her commitment for the future. Her best games have been forward, why keep a spot for her and then push her to defence?
Natalie Plane - can be a solid contributor, but for mine, the kids have gone past her and they have upside that she is not showing.
Brianna Moody - wish we had three of her. Ruck, Full Forward, Full Back. Lacked her dash and leap last night. Not sure of her tank, but surely better value resting in goal square than on the pine.
Taylor Ortlepp - signs are good although a bit inconsistent yet. Needs some focussed development to add layers. Good prospect.

The above are 25 and over. The “sweet spot” of 23 and 24 year olds is a complete void. Not one player.

Madeline Guerin - her injury issues are heartbreaking. Combative and skilled. Sadly missed component of the team with her clearance ability and tackling pressure.
Lily Goss - shows signs as a solid role player through the middle particularly.
Paige Trudgeon - revelation in defence last year. Less so of late. Doesn’t have the same focus as last season for whatever reason. Had a lot put on her shoulders at a young age, being asked to be THE key defender. Was a forward first and may benefit from a run up there, or even on the ball. Replacement would be the key. Too late in season now but maybe Good could cover and swap roles. Playing jaded, would benefit from a change up in my opinion. We seem to release the “oldies” and burden the kids.
Serena Gibbs - needs a solid run at it for a realistic assessment.
Imogen Milford - has had her issues, giving her some leeway, but was pretty much a non contributor last night.
Abbie McKay - love her desire and commitment. Skills are improving despite already being an integral player. I have very high hopes for her. Seems very committed.
Lucy McEvoy - lacks a yard of pace which probably keeps her out of the engine room. Can be deployed across the ground, but seems to have found her niche behind the ball. Should remain an important player for a long time. As a young player I like them to have an occasional role change up. Lucy has the scope to be a “shock trooper” anywhere, but as said a defensive staple primarily.
Charlotte Hammans - I have yet to see enough for an assessment, sorry.
Mimi Hill - love her, but is going from line breaker to work horse due to structures and of course the absence of Guerin and immaturity of some youngster. Star which I hope is not dimmed be excessive workload.
Daisy Walker - just a kid, so I will excuse the Jekyll and Hyde moments for now. Needs nurturing, yet unlike others rotated across roles, has been burdened as a defensive staple at a young age.
Amelia Velardo - shows some very promising signs. Raw talent and a larger body adds plenty of scope. Likely midfield contributor, but shows enough to be considered a key position possibility with focussed development. Shapes as a pivotal player in our structural development.
Annie Lee - decent signs, but for mine, intensity needs a lift. Again, just a kid asked to be an important structural player.
Brooke Vickers - plenty to like here, but work in process. My observations see her perhaps more as a rebounding defender with that extra yard of pace than our preferred outside backs. Plenty of upside wherever she is utilised.
Poppy Schaap - midget. Tries hard, but not overly strong and her pace is ordinary for the role. Would love her to come on, but I have trouble seeing it.
Keeley Skepper - most exciting youngster since Mimi (OK not long ago) Love a leftie, and her precision is on a different level to what is normally on offer across the women’s competition. Surely one wing is her’s.
Mia Austin - cameo was excellent, high hopes she will be the forward presence we need so badly.
Kelley Sherar - developing well. Extra pace over our other inside girls. Just needs to tidy her kicking to go to very high levels.

We have the players to be a contending unit with a little maturity. Maybe this “mature age” draft allows us the chance to seek out some cross coders or find some hidden gems.

Development is the biggest key to our future. Not just the kids I see significant upside in Ortlepp and Jess Good still despite the mature age. I have so many questions on Hartford’s deployment of his resources, you ask how we know the issues are the head coaches. Bottom line he has the say who plays where. He dictates the cattle the assistants have to promote the performance of their respective lines. This is a key failure as well as maximising the output of DV and some key pieces in the structure. While I would stop short of grabbing a female coach for the sake of it, surely a strong female presence on the coaching panel would be advantageous. Uncle Harf would be compelled to walk on eggshells with tones and messaging in this Politically correct, woke world for fear of sexist perceptions etc. Would be much easier for a female coach to read the riot act to the girls I would expect. I am critical of Harf, but there would be so much pressure for collaborative rather than authoritarian coaching and would be an incredibly difficult role.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Here we go, the definitive affirmation of “better efficiency”. Hugely inflated by repeated chains of inconsequential handballs too often leading to a turn over. Clubs are letting us fuss around with the ball on the periphery, then killing us with efficient, direct entries through the corridor, often waltzing through a poorly structured defence.

Analysis paralysis is a big thing with “followers” these days. Not fair dinkum involved analysis of structural effectiveness. Pathetic reliance on almost irrelevant statistics to further a point of view. The availability of statistics is a positive in the modern game. The ability to accurately interpret them and add context is seemingly a rare commodity.

We actually kicked more than the Suns did too.

I quoted efficiency to highlight that we didn't lose all of our best kicks.

Thanks for the slight though. You must be working in football statistic analysis in order to put me down in such a way.

Feel free to take a stab at it yourself.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Decent opinions on most of the players Coona, just a couple of observations.

Bernardi can't play again until we go beyond the minimum of 24 available players. I know you know that but for those reading, just wanted to make sure.

The 'woke' stuff you talk about with Vescio and in your last paragraph, has absolutely nothing to do with anything. How they identify does not affect their football. This is obviously a culture thing you don't understand or subscribe to, but it doesn't have any place in the discussion of players.

It's your issue, your political talking point. Can we leave it out?

Besides, the term 'woke' is used as an insult to describe someone or an organisation who pays lip service to these issues for clout but doesn't really believe in them. It's hard to make an argument that Vescio doesn't really believe in her own gender identification and that the club don't really support her choices.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Let me ask you this. Is our AFLW program one that players from other sides are clamoring to join or is it one who's players are leaving regularly?

Why?

Who was the last quality player that was traded in since I Taylah?

Hosking (can't remember if it was Jess or Sarah) said they'd left because of how badly the club treated them and that the whole AFLW program at Carlton felt like an afterthought. Media team's effort notwithstanding.

There were reports of a rift in the playing field group (this one second hand). Many of those players have since left.

Another source (who Ive mentioned to you previously) has confirmed the afterthought status of the AFLW program to the board. People like Kinnersley are trying to change that but too many power players really just dgaf.

The my way or the highway leadership style of our Captain is too old school and doesn't resonate with the younger players.

The list management decisions to delist players who have gone on to play good footy elsewhere for several seasons have also been questionable.

Perhaps alienating was the wrong word to use. But from all I've heard only the many of the players simply felt the weren't valued. And have left for sides who've shown them they would be valued.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Can you link me to where the Hoskins said they were treated badly?

I can grant you the possibility that the program is an afterthought in some ways, but that doesn't equate to treating individuals poorly.

I mean, don't they now have first rate facilities, changing rooms, nutrition access etc?

You must be aware there is still a pay structure. Can't just trade in players easily, especially when you are not having success. How many bottom AFL teams are trading in heaps of gun players?

To me, this is where there is smoke, there must be fire thinking. Maybe we had a cultural realignment? Some players remained and a solid core are performing every week, albeit with not enough troops around them. They seem to walk around proclaiming how proud they are being baggers and embracing the experience.

As for Peterson, what is 'my way or the highway'? Would we level the same criticism at Cripps if players left? Captains should be driving standards on and off the field. She comes across as passionate and professional.