List Mgmt. Ablett to move to Gold Coast

[AM]

Haha a common theme in here.

I can assure you in the essential legal sense of the Pickering/Ablett relationship, I sure do get it.

Do you?

Frankly THP your knowledge of jurisprudence is that of a bush lawyer.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Frankly THP your knowledge of jurisprudence is that of a bush lawyer.

Firstly, this is an internet forum, what is the point of a petty insult?

Secondly, I havent mentioned anything specific about the laws themself.

I am merely raising speculative issues as they might relate to these laws.

Big difference, shame you couldnt see that

Next? How long do you consider driving this obfuscation?

 

[AM]

Firstly, this is an internet forum, what is the point of a petty insult?

Secondly, I havent mentioned anything specific about the laws themself.

I am merely raising speculative issues as they might relate to these laws.

Big difference, shame you couldnt see that

Next? How long do you consider driving this obfuscation?

Not an insult, rather an observation in response to the inference about your knowledge of the law in respect of this matter. And your question to me.

This is boring to the forum members. Me too!

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Not an insult, rather an observation in response to the inference about your knowledge of the law in respect of this matter. And your question to me.

This is boring to the forum members. Me too!

Yeah it was, it's a petty insult. Just deal with it. You're not perfect.

Have we gotten far enough away from the actual point yet?

Again, I havent mentioned the law or any law, but the law in here seems to be according to you, so I assume in future when I want to give a speculative opinion about something or anything I should consult with you first?

And just for the record, if at any point you wish to conduct a conversation that includes what I am actually talking about I would really be interested in that haha...

And if its at all possible, can it not include Buddy Franklin?

 

[vinum coupe]

I too have no idea what you are talking about THP.

Give me a recap please.

Are suggesting that Pickers and Gaz just happened to be on the Gold Coast together and Pickers said 'hey, I have someone I want you to meet' ?

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

I too have no idea what you are talking about THP.

Give me a recap please.

Are suggesting that Pickers and Gaz just happened to be on the Gold Coast together and Pickers said 'hey, I have someone I want you to meet' ?

No not at all, it would have been a well considered intention to meet.

My point relates to Mc Kenna's recent comments that include Pickering with the follow up statement he is confident Gaz will go to the GC.

I dont know the full details, but if Pickering has somehow put himself on the line for Gaz in the hope of a big pay day, then I guess Mc Kenna might and I stress might sound more hopeful or confident than usual. Just as Gary might be otherwise legally bound to only make a decision until the end of the year too; but its just speculation. No better than anyone else's, I might be wrong?

Thats it, and apologies to all for the unnecessary side-tracking previous.

 

[vinum coupe]

Well we know Pickers makes no extra coin if Gaz goes to the GC. The management group does. And it's only 5% or so. And yes there maybe a bonus involved to pickers I guess but you wouldn't go through all this for a few bucks.

I'd say Pickers just advised Gaz that the GC had called, and called, and called.
Do you want to have a chat with them?

Yes Pickers probably told Gaz that no one would know about the meeting.
And now he has to wear the brunt of the commotion.

I don't hold that meeting against either of the 2. As I have always said.
Under the AFL rules of the time it was certainly allowed.

 

[GARY JNR]

Well we know Pickers makes no extra coin if Gaz goes to the GC. The management group does. And it's only 5% or so. And yes there maybe a bonus involved to pickers I guess but you wouldn't go through all this for a few bucks.

... Soooooo ... that would mean Pickering would get extra money if Gaz went north, correct?

At the end of the day, an agent can sprout all he likes about "doing what's best for his client", but don't tell me he isn't also thinking about whether he's going to make $50,000 or $100,000 from a potential deal.

 

[Rubberducky]

... Soooooo ... that would mean Pickering would get extra money if Gaz went north, correct?

At the end of the day, an agent can sprout all he likes about "doing what's best for his client", but don't tell me he isn't also thinking about whether he's going to make $50,000 or $100,000 from a potential deal.

I'd love to think Pickers is a cold blooded Ari Gold type. But he's a good honest bloke, old school kinda guy. Hear him discuss/defend any client and you can feel he cares.

When you deal with someones affairs on a daily basis their needs quickly overtake any consideration of your own.

I've seen many managers in business opt to reward their staff before pushing for personal pay increases.

I've relaxed on this heaps. I once walked out of a big company knowing it would continue to be succesfull to take on a challenge in a company that was starting up. If Gaj is thinking along those lines I don't blame him, what if that challenge simply makes it easier for him to push through a pre-season for the next 2 years.

You can't fight the internet and this discussion is bound to continue. But at least we've got a real chance at grabbing that 3rd flag this year, after that any sad news or good news will be what it is...

Until I'm not as tired I'll hold onto my more relaxed outlook on Gaj.

 

[vinum coupe]

... Soooooo ... that would mean Pickering would get extra money if Gaz went north, correct?

At the end of the day, an agent can sprout all he likes about "doing what's best for his client", but don't tell me he isn't also thinking about whether he's going to make $50,000 or $100,000 from a potential deal.

I knew someone would try to pick a hole in my comment. I only added the 'bonus' as it is plausible.

You can totally forget 50 or 100k.

management gets between 3 and 5%
So if Gaz gets an extra 800k per year at GC the management group (at most) would earn an additional 48k per year.

It has nothing to do with IMG or Pickers.

Many people obviously can't accept that a favourite son is actually thinking of leaving. They just want to blame someone else. Pickers, the AFL, anyone but Gazza!! And I still don't begrudge Gaz.

 

[Hoops4 Me]

TheHonestyPolicy = WeAreGeelong. Once a WAG always a WAG.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

TheHonestyPolicy = WeAreGeelong. Once a WAG always a WAG.

Yeah, and I wish I knew what you meant ?

But anonymously sledging guys on the internet or with the little petty insults sort of carries the tag of gutless d1ckhead with it, you ok wearing that with a cheesy grin?

I mean FFS. Who are you by the way mate? Should I know you?

 

[d_henderson1810]

Pickering's role, even in legal terms, will also include the well being of his client. Getting sprung on the GC last year is Pickerings' fault, not Gaz. Even if Gary wanted the meeting, it was Pickering's responsibility that this meeting never saw the light of day. Gary is still contracted to Geelong for a start. Secondly IF Gary signed off on anything that day, Pickering as the adviser, should have instructed this meeting to be held privately. For the simple fact whatever he may have signed or even what he could have potentially signed, will have stipulated this fact in a very legal sense too.
As Gary's adviser Pickering is liable for this understanding or misunderstanding.

Pickering has since stated publically he organised the GC meeting and has accepted full responsibility for it. McKenna perhaps quite cleverly has reminded Pickering of this fact just recently. Very interesting indeed.

The AFL have already admitted a loophole exists regarding contracted players during certain periods of the off-season, exonerating the GC in this matter but Pickering's part in all this as a manager remains rather unclear, given Gary's real legal obligation at the time was with Geelong and not the GC and as the manager he is responsible for the handling of that contract.

In black and white you relate correct aspects of the player/manager relationship but also leave significant holes by not understanding Pickering's actions are by no means however purely governed by the simple fact he is employed by somebody else. Pickering has a professional duty of care which given his own testimony suggests he has been quite negligent in this matter as a manager and this is quite regardless of the fact Gary may have requested this meeting first.

Pickering might not just have something to gain from all this, but might actually have something to lose from all this now too, so perhaps this cant purely just be about Gary any longer and I suspect this is what McKenna was hinting at over the weekend. I dont know the full details however.

As I mentioned, this seems a complete mess any way you look at it now.
The AFL turning a blind eye for their own interests will save the day!
Recent suggestions from the AFL they think Gary is best left staying at Geelong too makes me think they arent interested in the can of worms.

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The fact is simple. Pickering is a player agent. Now player agents negotiate to get their clients the ebst deal, since the more the player makes, the more the agent makes. Simple. Because agents recieve a percentage of a player's contract, they will inevitably push a player into taking the highest offer, whether it is the better deal for the player or not, so that the agent can pocket more money. Only really astute players will cotton onto what is happening, or maybe they don't care, as long as they make more too.

Player-managers are like lawyers, and about as trustworthy. They are hired by the client for their expertise. Now, because the client isn't as smart as the agent (or else they would do their own negotiations), the agent can tell the player whatever he wants, out of self-interest. To be honest, I would trust some of them as far as I can throw them.

Pickering needs to remember this. His career was down the toilet until Geelong picked him up. So, without Geelong, he would have had no footy career. So, Pickering owes the club to point Gary in the right direction (towards Geelong).

 

[pinion]

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The fact is simple. Pickering is a player agent. Now player agents negotiate to get their clients the ebst deal, since the more the player makes, the more the agent makes. Simple. Because agents recieve a percentage of a player's contract, they will inevitably push a player into taking the highest offer, whether it is the better deal for the player or not, so that the agent can pocket more money. Only really astute players will cotton onto what is happening, or maybe they don't care, as long as they make more too.

Player-managers are like lawyers, and about as trustworthy. They are hired by the client for their expertise. Now, because the client isn't as smart as the agent (or else they would do their own negotiations), the agent can tell the player whatever he wants, out of self-interest. To be honest, I would trust some of them as far as I can throw them.

Pickering needs to remember this. His career was down the toilet until Geelong picked him up. So, without Geelong, he would have had no footy career. So, Pickering owes the club to point Gary in the right direction (towards Geelong).

player agents in the AFL actually make a very small amount on from playing contracts. it's usually 2-3%

where they make their money is in endorsments, where they can command closer to 30-50% (one player agent once told me the rationale behind this is that playing is the player's talent, marketing is the manager's)

by those numbers, pickering is probably better off pushing ablett towards geelong since he's arguably likely to make more in endorsements by staying

 

[barmy44]

So, Pickering owes Gary to point Gary in the right direction (towards where ever gary wants to go).

efa. none of us should forget gary is a person, with his own personal goals and ambitions. the right direction as fans is definitely towards geelong. the right direction for gary as a person is up to him, not us.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

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The fact is simple. Pickering is a player agent. Now player agents negotiate to get their clients the ebst deal, since the more the player makes, the more the agent makes. Simple. Because agents recieve a percentage of a player's contract, they will inevitably push a player into taking the highest offer, whether it is the better deal for the player or not, so that the agent can pocket more money. Only really astute players will cotton onto what is happening, or maybe they don't care, as long as they make more too.

Player-managers are like lawyers, and about as trustworthy. They are hired by the client for their expertise. Now, because the client isn't as smart as the agent (or else they would do their own negotiations), the agent can tell the player whatever he wants, out of self-interest. To be honest, I would trust some of them as far as I can throw them.

Pickering needs to remember this. His career was down the toilet until Geelong picked him up. So, without Geelong, he would have had no footy career. So, Pickering owes the club to point Gary in the right direction (towards Geelong).

Makes sense, and I hope you are right about the last bit

I noticed someone in here recently suggesting Gary should p1ss off...exactly what we dont need to be hearing or reading until he has "made his mind up" and all the facts are known at the end of the season.

I dont agree with the path Gary has taken by the way, but thats life.

 

[d_henderson1810]

You know, we have spent 35+ pages talking about this. There have been recriminations everywhere. But why don't we point the finger not at Ablett, Bomber, Geelong, GC, or Liam Pickering, but at the party who created this situation to begin with -THE AFL, and specifically Andrew "Nero" Demetriou.

The AFL created this situation. They allowed their two new clubs to have a much bigger salary cap than anyone else, making it near impossible to compete. What Ablett is being offered is a lot, which Geelong can't match. So, he is torn, he and the coach don't get along any more, you fans have turned on him, there is specualtion everywhere. If the AFL weren't so stupid as to bring in two new clubs which no-one will care about, just for Demetriou's enormous ego, then GC could not offer much more than Geelong would.

The AFL, who use the media as their sounding-board, have created this situation. Never has the AFL worked so hard to get one player to move to a particular club. They know that Ablett is a marquee player, and would be both good advertising and a star player for GC. Demetriou hopes that Ablett will draw people to the new club. Don't buy him saying that he hopes Ablett stays at Geelong. It is b.s. The AFL orchestrated all this. So, we need to turn our anger and blame to the turkeys at AFL house, who are screwing over sixteen clubs, for the betterment of two. The AFL talk about an "even" competition, but by giving two clubs a massive salary cap, they have shown where their real loyalties lie.

I bet the AFL is liking Bomber venting his frustrations. They are probably banking on driving a wedge between Ablett and Geelong, any way they can. It doesn't matter if it is by offering more money, or by creating tension at his club. These other player re-signed because they weren't being offered what Ablett was, or Karmichael Hunt wages either. The anger and sorrow the AFL has created, and the fact that, even if he stays, a lot of you fans will never trust Ablett again regardless, is the fault of the AFL.

The AFL are also driving the media on this. Have you heard ONE prominent journo criticise the AFL for bringing in two new clubs? No. Wanna know why? Because while the journos claim to act independent, the day they joined radio stations, TV shows, HOF and Norm Smith Medal voting boards, and accepted perks, they became the AFL's bitches. So, they too, now have to keep the speculation going. They are told to create this controversy, and misread every bit of body language and situation, so that the tension will force Ablett to leave. The media gets their stories, and gets to keep being "serviced" by the AFL.

I declare the AFL, and particularily Andrew Demetriou, guilty of treason and the destruction of the fabric of our great game. I sentence him to dismissal from the AFL, and sentence Gold Coast and GWS to death row, where they belong. May God have mercy on his soul, because the fans will not, when this pipe-dream fails.

 

[vinum coupe]

You know, we have spent 35+ pages talking about this. .

And you keep spewing out the same crap.
You don't read any other posts do you?

 

[Hoops4 Me]

To add some spice to a struggling thread, here's a Devils Advocates 9 reasons why Gary (regrettably) will be Gold Coast bound.

1.$500.000 extra per year.

2.Be a foundation member of an AFL club, an opportunity available to very few.

3.First Captain of a foundation AFL club.

4.Lead a club to 3 more premierships in 2014/5/6 with the aid of salary cap and trade concessions.

5.Reunite with his brother and get a house and job for his father.

6. Rejoin his friend and mentor Ken Hinkley.

7.Never have to wear a jumper or coat again.

8. Surf 365 days a year

9.Girls! Girls! and more Girls.

I can't comment on the WAG, sorry, THP posts because I can't make head nor tail of them.

Cheers.

 

[darren forssman]

what was your previous incarnation hoops?

 

[GARY JNR]

I knew someone would try to pick a hole in my comment. I only added the 'bonus' as it is plausible.

You can totally forget 50 or 100k.

management gets between 3 and 5%
So if Gaz gets an extra 800k per year at GC the management group (at most) would earn an additional 48k per year.

It has nothing to do with IMG or Pickers.

Many people obviously can't accept that a favourite son is actually thinking of leaving. They just want to blame someone else. Pickers, the AFL, anyone but Gazza!! And I still don't begrudge Gaz.

Vinum, don't get all defensive, I'm not having a crack at you or angry at Gaz or Pickers - I'm simply stating a fact. As you did above.

You just said yourself, a management group - and as an extension of that its employees - can potentially earn an extra 50K a year should player x choose to move to club y. Therefore, human nature can sometimes come into play, and people can think 'what's best for me?'

Now if Gazza goes, good luck to him and I don't begrudge him. It's been a hell of a ride and I'll have been priviliged to have seen two of the greatest footballers ever play the game wear the blue and white hoops. Go back four years ... who would have thought we'd be two-time premiers and be gunning for a third?

If he stays, I'll be as pumped as the next bloke. However, I feel Gaz has lost a bit of love out of all this, which is a great shame.

 

[vinum coupe]

There is no doubt he has lost some love.
For some reason I don't get all giddy when he gets the ball anymore

 

[d_henderson1810]

And you keep spewing out the same crap.
You don't read any other posts do you?

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No need to be so rude!

 

[vinum coupe]

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I wasn't

 

[pinion]

To add some spice to a struggling thread, here's a Devils Advocates 9 reasons why Gary (regrettably) will be Gold Coast bound.

1.$500.000 extra per year.

2.Be a foundation member of an AFL club, an opportunity available to very few.

3.First Captain of a foundation AFL club.

4.Lead a club to 3 more premierships in 2014/5/6 with the aid of salary cap and trade concessions.

5.Reunite with his brother and get a house and job for his father.

6. Rejoin his friend and mentor Ken Hinkley.

7.Never have to wear a jumper or coat again.

8. Surf 365 days a year

9.Girls! Girls! and more Girls.

I can't comment on the WAG, sorry, THP posts because I can't make head nor tail of them.

Cheers.

i think only 1 and 5 have all that much clout. reuniting with hinkley would make the move a little more comforatble, but being a foundation member of an AFL club puts him in the illustrious company of andrew wills, stephen o'reilly, scott chisholm, tony delaney, shane breuer, ian downsborough, adam heuskes, ken judge, darren bennett, gerard neesham ... the list goes on.