Current 95yo Clare Nowland Tased by Police RIP - NSW *Sen Constable Kristian White charged

[Kurve]

NSW Police have tased a 95 year old with dementia holding a kitchen knife in a care home, leaving her with a fractured skull and not expected to make it. It's making international press.

 

[BFew]

NSW Police have tased a 95 year old with dementia holding a kitchen knife in a care home, leaving her with a fractured skull and not expected to make it. It's making international press.

Shocker.

Were they possibly concerned that she might throw the knife at them or self-harm with it?

Along with everyone else impacted, the Police involved/affected must be feeling devastated.

 

[Kurve]

Were they possibly concerned that she might throw the knife at them or self-harm with it?

Along with everyone else impacted, the Police involved/affected must be feeling devastated.

I want to know who even called the police.

 

[GreyCrow]

I want to know who even called the police.

Firstly the use of a taser on a 95 yr old is disgusting and I hope disciplinary action happens

As to your question the Aged Care sector is struggling under its own weight of expectation v profit. Where time used to be afforded for individual care - with CARE being the driving principle - time is now allocated at minutes per patient and we have Watchers

Link this to Royal Commissions over Aged Care abuse and the handling of a resident has so many caveats to it - so staffs hands are tied once more.

So call the police to handle it BUT also to cover butts in case of blowback down the track.

Going back to my original point - if you have CARERS in place they will know the residents and what makes them calm down. Instead we get watchers who are there to manage not CARE

tl;dr the industry is ****ed but if you dont like it look after your parents at home - oh wait

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I want to know who even called the police.

I'm sorry to say I burst into uncontrollable laughter when a police spokesperson solemnly said:
"The lady was in possession of a steak knife."
"She moved towards the police."
"She moved very slowly."
"She had a walking frame."

I even want to chuckle typing this.

I'd say the staff didn't want to wrestle the knife off her as they would have to report the incident to the relatives along the lines of: "Clara was waving a sharp knife and we had to get it from her before she hurt herself or someone else and unfortunately she now has a broken wrist."
Assault charge coming up.

How she got the knife is also another question that would have to be answered.

They didn't want to take any responsibility, had no patient-negotiating skills (although dementia patients are deaf to logic), and couldn't come up with any other plan. In short, they were untrained.

The police, though... They probably have iron-clad protocols - "If anyone, anyone at all, comes at you with a weapon, deploy the taser!"

Poor lady, she would have had no idea what was happening. A demented mind is terrified, and comes out as aggression. I saw it with my own MIL, although never quite like that. She was looked after by experienced staff who dealt with myriad versions of behaviours on a daily, hourly, basis.

Hopefully she pulls through, although, on the other hand...

Also, hopefully lessons have been learned by the nursing home, and the police.

 

[BFew]

if you have CARERS in place they will know the residents and what makes them calm down. Instead we get watchers who are there to manage not CARE

And an industry full of lots of recently imported low paid overseas worker carers on work visas and all the risks that increases.

When oneday the carebots are active, they'll me no calling the Police in these situations.

And they'll probably disarm the knife wielding person by turning on their magnetic pulse to magnetically remove the knife at a distance, or coerce them into throwing the knife at/too them.

 

[BFew]

How she got the knife is also another question that would have to be answered.

A serated steak knife in an aged care home?

Surely they can't even afford steak, or steak that is quality enough to easily eat without a steak knife.

Maybe the knife was for staff meals?

And the kitchen should be locked at nights in a place like that.

 

[Kurve]

The police, though... They probably have iron-clad protocols - "If anyone, anyone at all, comes at you with a weapon, deploy the taser!"

Poor lady, she would have had no idea what was happening. A demented mind is terrified, and comes out as aggression. I saw it with my own MIL, although never quite like that. She was looked after by experienced staff who dealt with myriad versions of behaviours on a daily, hourly, basis.

Hopefully she pulls through, although, on the other hand...

Also, hopefully lessons have been learned by the nursing home, and the police.

Homicide is investigating, if she dies and there's a possibility she may I imagine there will be charges more serious than an assault.

Without knowing everything that happened, there's a dozen different ways the situation could have been handled to get the knife off her that wouldn't have had to involve a risk of anybody getting hurt.

An approach with a blanket would have managed it, not a taser.

 

[BFew]

An approach with a blanket would have managed it, not a taser.

Even an approach with a blanket, might have resulted in her falling over and hitting her head, well before the blanket was deployed.
But way less risky than a taser.

Maybe better to just talk to her remotely, from another room to de-escalate the situation.
But only by qualified staff.

Or just lock her in the kitchen, provided there are cameras in their to make sure she didn't set fire to the place or turn any gas on to try and blow the joint up. And get family in ASAP to communicate with her whilst in there to try and de-escalate.

And if she were to self harm in the process, at least no-one else would get physically hurt or blamed in the process.
Apart from the Nursing home and staff there if rules had been broken in regards to access to the kitchen and weapon.

 

[Kurve]

Jeeze ... I imagined rookies not thinking. He was a senior constable with 12 years behind him. Investigators might want to have a good look at his history.

Police body-worn video cameras captured the disturbing moment a senior constable with 12 years' experience discharged his taser on 95-year-old Clare Nowland.

Threat posed by 95-year-old resident tasered by police under scrutiny

9now.nine.com.au

 

[Kurve]

Even an approach with a blanket, might have resulted in her falling over and hitting her head, well before the blanket was deployed.
But way less risky than a taser.

Just chuck a blanket over the arm carrying the knife moving in fast. But, a dozen different ways it could have been done.

 

[chickenonachain]

Just chuck a blanket over the arm carrying the knife moving in fast. But, a dozen different ways it could have been done.

Could have knocked her over with a feather

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Even an approach with a blanket, might have resulted in her falling over and hitting her head, well before the blanket was deployed.
But way less risky than a taser.

Maybe better to just talk to her remotely, from another room to de-escalate the situation.
But only by qualified staff.

Or just lock her in the kitchen, provided there are cameras in their to make sure she didn't set fire to the place or turn any gas on to try and blow the joint up. And get family in ASAP to communicate with her whilst in there to try and de-escalate.

And if she were to self harm in the process, at least no-one else would get physically hurt or blamed in the process.
Apart from the Nursing home and staff there if rules had been broken in regards to access to the kitchen and weapon.

She was placed in CARE, to get CARE. A great deal of understanding and patience is necessary to deal with people with dementia. They sometimes have a momentary glimmer of understanding of what is happening to them and they are terrified. The world is not comprehensible to them as it once was. Someone needed to talk gently and personally to her, at length if necessary, soothe her terror. Someone familiar to her. Not snatch the knife and grab her. With limited mobility and a walking frame no one was in any serious danger.

Fixing the rules later is one thing but CARING for the lady should have been the first priority.

I did laugh about big burly police being scared of an old lady with a walking frame, but actually I am angry about the whole situation.

 

[BFew]

a senior constable with 12 years' experience discharged his taser on 95-year-old Clare Nowland.

Off duty too at some point in the incident response.

Can we assume they were not 100% in Police uniform.
Possibly have been woken up in the night to attend, and have been very sleepy.
Hope they had not been drinking earlier.

Or would they have changed into their uniforms before attending, or maybe just donned a Police jacket and hat to get their ASAP?

Clare Nowland: NSW police’s decision to Taser 95-year-old woman leaves community ‘gobsmacked’

Disability advocates outraged at ‘heavy handed’ response, while Greens MP says incident should mark turning point in police misconduct reviews

www.theguardian.com

'So when the nursing home called police about 4.15am Wednesday, asking for help to deal with a resident with a knife, the force had to call in off-duty officers.

Paramedics were already on the scene by the time the officers, all with more than a decade of experience, arrived.'

 

[BFew]

Some more details of what allegedly occurred in this week's sad aged care steak knife taser incident.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/police-commissioner-karen-webb-says-best-detectives-investigating-why-95yearold-was-tasered/news-story/1fe3136575cd47774da6d2360ed04ea1

'Police Commissioner Karen Webb says best detectives investigating why 95-year-old was tasered​

Authorities are still trying to piece together the events leading up to the Tasering of 95-year-old great-grandmother, with it now being revealed she was missing up to an hour before the tragic encounter.

Cydonee Mardon and Madeline Crittenden

May 21, 2023 - 12:00PM
The Sunday Telegraph
...
Staff at Yallambee Lodge in Cooma could not locate 95-year-old Clare Nowland, who had apparently wandered from her multi-bedroom residence, one of several wings in the facility.

Police were then called to help at 4.15am on Wednesday after reports Ms Nowland, who suffers from advanced dementia, had a serrated steak knife.

It is understood body worn footage video will show the great-grandmother was slowly walking towards a senior constable with a knife over her head, her eyes fixed on the officer in front of her.

While the senior constable, a veteran of 12 years, repeatedly told Ms Nowland to stay where she was and that he had a taser.

After she failed to drop the knife, the senior constable discharged his taser, causing her to fall back and hit her head.
...
NSW Police remain tight-lipped on what other options the officer had to calm Ms Nowland.

The detectives from the State Homicide Squad and Law Enforcement Conduct Commission will also investigate how the mother of eight came to be in possession of two different knives.
...
Ms Webb said the circumstances around why police were called to the nursing home were still being investigated but: “In my experience, it’s quite rare that we will be called to a nursing home”.

“And, if in the fullness of this investigation we come to learn that we need to better equip our officers to deal with dementia patients, then we will do so.”

Ms Webb — whose own mother has severe dementia and lives in a nursing home
...
former detective sergeant and One Nation MP Rod Roberts said: “I am not condoning the actions of the police officers, but the question I have is how did a 95-year-old woman with dementia in an aged care facility get access to a steak knife at four in the morning?”

Snowy Monaro Regional Council, operator of Yallambee, said a report about the incident had been made to the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

While the senior constable, a veteran of 12 years, repeatedly told Ms Nowland to stay where she was and that he had a taser.

Ffs, she would not have any comprehension of what he was saying. You cannot communicate with a dementia sufferer in the normal way.

And, if in the fullness of this investigation we come to learn that we need to better equip our officers to deal with dementia patients, then we will do so.”

Oh gee, really? The police should not have to deal with dementia patients. That’s the nursing home’s staff’s job.

but the question I have is how did a 95-year-old woman with dementia in an aged care facility get access to a steak knife at four in the morning?”

A question for the home to sort out internally, but irrelevant to the tasering. How long before the promised 24-hour staffing in aged care facilities actually comes about?

 

[Puddy]

Ffs, she would not have any comprehension of what he was saying. You cannot communicate with a dementia sufferer in the normal way.


Oh gee, really? The police should not have to deal with dementia patients. That’s the nursing home’s staff’s job.


A question for the home to sort out internally, but irrelevant to the tasering. How long before the promised 24-hour staffing in aged care facilities actually comes about?

I've been working with dementia patients for over 10 years. Ever since the anti restraint brigade got their way, violent situations have become the norm.

I'm 91kg, low body fat and bench 130kg. I've been overpowered by a 40kg 90+ year old female with dementia. If this situation had escalated into the murder of other residents this would be a different situation.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Firstly the use of a taser on a 95 yr old is disgusting and I hope disciplinary action happens

As to your question the Aged Care sector is struggling under its own weight of expectation v profit. Where time used to be afforded for individual care - with CARE being the driving principle - time is now allocated at minutes per patient and we have Watchers

Link this to Royal Commissions over Aged Care abuse and the handling of a resident has so many caveats to it - so staffs hands are tied once more.

So call the police to handle it BUT also to cover butts in case of blowback down the track.

Going back to my original point - if you have CARERS in place they will know the residents and what makes them calm down. Instead we get watchers who are there to manage not CARE

tl;dr the industry is ****ed but if you dont like it look after your parents at home - oh wait

I was chatting to someone i know in the US who works in aged care. She said she had the exact situation happen with one of her dementia patients.
Tried to calm her down, offered some ice cream, which she gladly accepted, and grabbed the knife when she set it down to eat the ice cream.

 

[Puddy]

i guess restraint became overused due to staff shortages. I agree they are unpredictable and find extra strength but this lady wasn’t (from the reports) engaged with physically. I don’t like the throwing a blanket idea but it would have been preferable to tasering. They might as well have just shot her.

There’s a good chance this could be our parent one day. Or us.

Dementia training is a joke. Academics with no idea trying to educate about a condition that they don't understand.

No amount of staff can stop this situation without chemical/physical restraint

 

[CD Xbow]

The NSW Police Commissioner says she refuses to look at the video of the tasering of Mrs Nuland. Think about that. You have a terrible event, possibly even a criminal event, that results in a person's death and the head copper says they don't want to look at the evidence. Rarely have I heard a comment as utterly stupid as that. The police also omitted the tasering aspect in their initial public reports.

The assistant commissioner says this: "It is confronting footage it forms a significant and integral part of the investigation and it is not in the public interest to be releasing that.” This says to me they know they stuffed this up completely and normal folks would be horrified by what was done. She had just about every single contraindication (size, age, illness etc) for use of a Taser

Violent demented folk are very difficult to manage, I had to duck and weave a few times in my career to avoid fists and cutlery. The thing they don't need is police and weapons. As pointed out in earlier posts chemical and physical restraint are used less commonly. Unfortunately it's really fine line and getting the balance right is difficult, many old folks died because of chemical and physical restraint hence the increasing reluctance to use.

 

[Kurve]

Commissioner Karen Webb is asked why she isn't watching the bodycam footage of the taserering incident.

She said it's evidence that will form part of the investigators report and it may be in the future she'll need to make a determination based on a brief of evidence without risk of tainting by having seen part of the brief without context.

Which I think is a bit different to how it was explained earlier in.

UNDER FIRE - Ben grills top cop over 95-year-old TASER victim

Karen Webb is front and centre after the horrendous events at Yallambee Lodge. The NSW Police Commissioner cut a forlorn figure following last week’s horrific tasering of a 95 year-old woman. Clare Nowland, barely 45 kilograms, was struck down by a police officer’s taser after she was caught...

www.2gb.com

 

[BFew]

Commissioner Karen Webb is asked why she isn't watching the bodycam footage of the taserering incident.

I read a media report today where the PC is quoted as saying that she might watch it eventually.

And another that said that the use of a taser on the 95yo might have set a new world record for the oldest person to have been tasered by Police.

 

[GreyCrow]

I read a media report today where the PC is quoted as saying that she might watch it eventually.

And another that said that the use of a taser on the 95yo might have set a new world record for the oldest person to have been tasered by Police.

Victoria Police : Hold my Beer

 

[Kurve]

Charged with recklessly causing grievous bodily harm, assault occasioning actual bodily harm and common assault.

Great-grandmother dies after police officer charged over alleged Tasering

www.9news.com.au

 

[Kurve]

The Greens have called for an parliamentary inquiry in to police conduct.

Clare Nowland, 95, dies in hospital as police officer charged over tasering

A 95-year-old grandmother has died after being tasered at a nursing home a week ago, with a police officer charged over the incident.

www.sbs.com.au