3rd ODI Australia v Pakistan, November 10 1400hrs @ Perth Stadium

[Bale Dup]

I think that over simplifies it a bit but yes t20 has more than likely had a big impact. There have been many great or very good batsmen without exceptional footwork. Hashim Amla, Mahela Jayawardene, Virender Sehwag, Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Smith, Chris Gayle for example all either didnt move their feet or were dependant on one movement (Pietersen had a good front foot towards the ball but it was a bit one dimensional).

But what made them good was that a) they could trust their method because it was fine tuned and b) they were mentally developed enough to apply it to build an innings.

Players who see the money of franchise cricket and aim for it never ever have to learn that or if they do, their ‘innings building’ has to last about 10 overs at most

Hear what you're saying, but I was referring to the likes of Tendulkar, Bradman, Steve Smith (at his best), Greg Chappell.
The batsman you have mentioned are all very good but I don't rate any as great.


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[Cataholic]

Whenever pace bowlers get brought up people mention Morris or Johnson. We've seen today at best they're low 140s. Johnson high 130s even today. Feels like most other nations are faster than us now, even England have several bowlers regularly over 145 now instead of the traditional medium paced swingers.

Having said that Morris seems to feel faster than what the gun says, hurries guys more than it seems he should.

Yep.....our definition of fast bowling seems to have been diluted over time.

High 130's to low 140's seems to meet the definition these days, whereas once upon a time 'fast' saw bowlers go high 140's to 160.

I know such bowlers don't come along every day, but we don't seem to have anyone coming through at all that is likely to reach such speed.

Morris could potentially, but I fear the risk, or occurrence, of injury could play with his mind.

Meredith is similarly quick but he doesn't seem to be in the frame for Test cricket at all.

 

[Cataholic]

For mine it’s more the inability to adapt rather than the initial decision. Neither Stoinis or Abbott looked threatening and the latter went for runs. Both were persisted with for too long.

I thought he was trying to be clever by foxing with Stoinis opening, then Abbott, and then compounded it by bowling both too long.

 

[Bale Dup]

Who wants to be a bowler these days. As you said. Roads for pitches. As a kid I'd want to be the one hitting it out of the park, not the one serving it up.

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[Coops93]

I think that over simplifies it a bit but yes t20 has more than likely had a big impact. There have been many great or very good batsmen without exceptional footwork. Hashim Amla, Mahela Jayawardene, Virender Sehwag, Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Smith, Chris Gayle for example all either didnt move their feet or were dependant on one movement (Pietersen had a good front foot towards the ball but it was a bit one dimensional).

But what made them good was that a) they could trust their method because it was fine tuned and b) they were mentally developed enough to apply it to build an innings.

Players who see the money of franchise cricket and aim for it never ever have to learn that or if they do, their ‘innings building’ has to last about 10 overs at most

Before responding I'll preface by saying, at least in Australia, the batting is way down on depth however...

Batting is materially harder the past 5-10 yrs than in the previous gen. Pitches in the 2000s, broadly, were roads. Especially in Australia. But in the past 10 or so years pitches here are greener and another change has been the balls. Kookaburra made the seams larger leading to more movement off the pitch as well as the lacquer lasting longer so more swing for longer. Khawaja spoke about it excellently recently.

Not just those anecdotal differences, it has actually been measured that there's more swing and movement off the pitches than ever recorded over the past few years.

There's no doubt it's harder- but that's not an excuse entirely, I still think the batting talent is lower than previous generations. It's just exacerbated now that batting is harder so it's more glaringly exposed when it's not up to standard.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Totally agree.

Back in the day Test cricket was king and players breathed it.

It demanded patience, technique and skill, but then came along ODI's, which has all but morphed into T20.

Now money is king.

Players only have to try and last 20 overs, not 90 in a day, and the demand for skill has been reduced.

Pitches are prepared like roads to suit the batters, thrill the crowd and satisfy the bankers.

Players are happier playing hit and giggle for 2 hours and $ rather than representing their country in a more skilful game over 5 days.

And yet despite all the naysayers , Test cricket is king

Nobody cares limited over cricket

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Morris builds all that pressure only for Abbott to come back and...

 

[Coops93]

Abbott just giving throwdowns.

 

[010203]

That's a glorious straight drive by Babar.

 

[Jimthegreat]

We brought Abbott back for what reason? We need wickets, just bowl out Morris and Johnson.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hear what you're saying, but I was referring to the likes of Tendulkar, Bradman, Steve Smith (at his best), Greg Chappell.
The batsman you have mentioned are all very good but I don't rate any as great.


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Lara would be one - and he’s my favourite of all time - that I would say didn’t have ‘traditionally’ great footwork. He obviously had that huge back and across movement and he was well organised but he rarely got his foot to the ball against fast bowling if it wasn’t at the stumps. His footwork to spin was near perfect

Definitely appreciate what you’re saying and all those batsmen you’ve mentioned were great examples of players with textbook footwork, Kallis was another who was outstanding.

 

[hawkman]

On the bright side, hopefully the selectors now see there are so many better options than Abbott

 

[Jimthegreat]

Whenever pace bowlers get brought up people mention Morris or Johnson. We've seen today at best they're low 140s. Johnson high 130s even today. Feels like most other nations are faster than us now, even England have several bowlers regularly over 145 now instead of the traditional medium paced swingers.

Having said that Morris seems to feel faster than what the gun says, hurries guys more than his speed suggests - a heavy ball comes to mind.

Morris hasn't fully extended himself. Johnson is around 140 with terrific skill. Pace is great but certainly not everything. Steyn often had spells in the high 130s. Then other spells quick a bit quicker.

 

[Cleavy]

We brought Abbott back for what reason? We need wickets, just bowl out Morris and Johnson.

dinner reservations

 

[hawkman]

If Pakistan were smart they would gift a couple of wickets to Abbott to try and get the selectors to keep playing him

 

[tombomb]

Surely they are at a point where they put a line through Sean Abbott. It's never going to happen.

 

[Cleavy]

If Pakistan were smart they would gift a couple of wickets to Abbott to try and get the selectors to keep playing him

he's in the T20 squad anyway.

 

[Bale Dup]

Lara would be one - and he’s my favourite of all time - that I would say didn’t have ‘traditionally’ great footwork. He obviously had that huge back and across movement and he was well organised but he rarely got his foot to the ball against fast bowling if it wasn’t at the stumps. His footwork to spin was near perfect

Definitely appreciate what you’re saying and all those batsmen you’ve mentioned were great examples of players with textbook footwork, Kallis was another who was outstanding.

Lara was special and he should have been in my list. What he lacked in footwork and to me that wasn't much, he made up for with quick hands and a wonderful eye.

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[Cataholic]

And yet despite all the naysayers , Test cricket is king

Nobody cares limited over cricket

$ rules world cricket.

$ says T20 and the IPL is king. They are far more lucrative than Test cricket. Players are bought for millions and play for their financial retirement.

$ is also why India's blatant dissent with the umpire was swept under the carpet the other day. Integrity came a distant second.

 

[Cataholic]

Morris builds all that pressure only for Abbott to come back and...

Not to be outdone, Hardie looks at Abbott and says 'here, hold my beer........'

 

[Cataholic]

Pakistan wins for the first time in 22 years by annihilating Australia in the last 2 games.

Absolutely diabolical performances, selections, strategies and processes.

 

[Doggy]

Pakistan wins for the first time in 22 years by annihilating Australia in the last 2 games.

Absolutely diabolical performances, selections, strategies and processes.

Didn't care much about the ODI series and will not care about the T20s. Will lose that comfortably as well.

 

[Cleavy]

so if you're giving ratings out of 10 to the Australian players for the series, does anyone warrant a 5+? (maybe Morris based on his 1 game?)

 

[010203]

The efforts of Spencer Johnson and Lance Morris with the ball are the only positives out of today.

Well played Pakistan. Too good in Adelaide and Perth after going damn close to winning in Melbourne.

 

[Cataholic]

But for one cameo by Cummins this would've been a 3 game obliteration.

We were putrid in every game.