List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.3

[Tommy Wigs]

Might have a very aerian back line with schoenmaker and Hoffmann.

Perhaps not surprising given Anglo history, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were others. Windhager. Stocker? Sharman? Looks like Coops is moving back again.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

That would be disappointing for the kid and supporters.

He has had a really good year with some outstanding games for Dandenong, he would be very unlucky considering we are screaming for clearance midfielders.

Then we have the clubs committment to take a Sandringham spud and possibly they leave out a worthy son of a Saints legend. If that doesnt typify St Kilda nothing does FFS

Uh oh. Cops have been called

 

[HeavenlySources]

Uh oh. Cops have been called [emoji599] [emoji599]

You can mock it if you want but it doesn’t send a great message if we don’t pick him up. He’s got enough talent to be drafted late or as a rookie. We are trying to grow our Father Son program with Gil Wakelin and future prospects weighing up whether to nominate us or not its not a good look. Sandy commitment offers minimal advantage but a healthy father son program could be the difference between a second premiership as we’ve seen with Collingwood, Brisbane & Geelong. Not comparing Peckett obviously but we want confidence that if you show you have the talent then we will back you in.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

What are you laughing at? Your inability to read and your lack of basic comprehension?

The reason we are uncompetitive is because we don't pay for quality players. We top up with kids and cheapies.

I'm not talking anything about the rookie deal. Generally Sandy are shit because if we have injuries to our St Kilda listed players the talent pool is super thin.

If you want kids to learn to play in a competitive second tier side you fund the top ups better or at least older second tier talent.

It's nice that basic people get to post like the rest of us but having to respond to you is tiresome.

Spoken like a Boss

 

[_Maximus_12]

What’s this about Harby Dipwell?

 

[Tommy Wigs]

You can mock it if you want but it doesn’t send a great message if we don’t pick him up. He’s got enough talent to be drafted late or as a rookie. We are trying to grow our Father Son program with Gil Wakelin and future prospects weighing up whether to nominate us or not its not a good look. Sandy commitment offers minimal advantage but a healthy father son program could be the difference between a second premiership as we’ve seen with Collingwood, Brisbane & Geelong. Not comparing Peckett obviously but we want confidence that if you show you have the talent then we will back you in.

Huh? Think you may have turned down the wrong street here.

I’m happy to take Frankie Jr

 

[bakes10]

Huh? Think you may have turned down the wrong street here.

I’m happy to take Frankie Jr

I’ve watched a 5 minute highlights reel on him so that makes me an expert. Had some good clearances, knows how to kick a goal, but also did a few worm burning clangers. I see his role as a HFF in the AFL. Not sure whether we have enough space on the list for him. If he’s good enough he’ll make it, happy to trust the clubs judgement and they shouldn’t let the father son connection cloud their judgement. Perhaps a rookie spot for Elwood would be most appropriate.

 

[Zzzed]

If nobody takes Elwood, and he plays at Sandy next year , can we still nominate him next year as a Father Son ?

Similarly if one of our NGA’s doesn’t get picked up , can we keep him in our NGA program, send him to Sandy and if he improves enough , can we still bid on him as a NGA next year ?

 

[gubby88]

If nobody takes Elwood, and he plays at Sandy next year , can we still nominate him next year as a Father Son ?

Similarly if one of our NGA’s doesn’t get picked up , can we keep him in our NGA program, send him to Sandy and if he improves enough , can we still bid on him as a NGA next year ?

no, it'd only for draft year we can

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Pou Steele]

Similar to the forward line of Riewoldt, Hammil and Gehrig

Schwarze, handballs to Riewoldt, who ignores the short option in Wulf and instead goes long to the goal square and GEHRIG!

 

[The Jack]

Herby

 

[Mr Platinum]

There’s been a lot of discussion about the Sandringham rookie selection and pulling the pin on it. Let me explain why that would be a shortsighted move.

Point 1 - Ideally, St Kilda would have its own standalone VFL team, but it’s a while off.

North Melbourne went standalone in 2018 when they had remaining debt of around $1 million.

The number cruncher in charge at the Roos then was Carl Dilena, who has since become our CEO.

Our debt at last count was around $5 million so we could still be 5+ years away from being at the level North was when Dilena pulled the trigger on going standalone there.

Point 2 - Sandringham aren’t a financial powerhouse.

The VFL clubs that recruit well either use links to the AFL club as a carrot - eg come play for Carlton in the navy blue at Princes Park.

Or they have money to spend from owning pokies (Werribee, Port Melbourne and Williamstown)

Sandringham are neither of those.

Point 3 - This could give Sandringham a point of difference.

In the period from now until we go standalone - whenever that might be - we needed to do something to make Sandringham stronger.

Currently playing for Sandringham is not a very attractive proposition. It’s certainly the least appealing of the aligned sides - at least at Box Hill and Casey it looks like you’re playing for the Hawks and Demons. If you’re a VFL standard player who supports the Saints, you wouldn’t move to Sandy to play in the blue and yellow.

This guaranteed rookie initiative is the first of its kind. Though other clubs, notably Western Bulldogs and Geelong, have long drafted from within their VFL teams, no club has publicly committed to doing so before.

It might not work, but at least they are trying something.

Point 4 - If you are judging the success of this initiative on the quality of the Sandringham player being drafted by the Saints, you’re going to be disappointed.

That isn’t the point of this idea.

We don’t get any exclusive rights to a Sandringham player, so if/when a quality player does come through, they will likely be grabbed by another club at mid season, national or rookie draft.

The point is to improve the standard of the team around the St Kilda listed players at Sandringham and thus improving those on the Saints list. How beneficial would have it been for Hugo Garcia, Matteas Phillipou and Angus McLennan to have played two or three VFL finals this year?

You improve the team and in theory all the players should improve too.

Point 5 - Don’t judge the initiative on Sandringham’s 2024 recruits….or their 2025 intake.

By the time the initiative was announced on October 25 last year, any serious VFL player had long decided where he was playing in 2024. It was poorly timed.

The new recruits the Zebras picked up this year were joining the club anyway. Hugo Hall Kehan is a former Sandringham Dragon and mate of Marcus Windhager. Tarkyn O’Leary and Will Brown are also former Dragons.

Fast forward twelve months and if you’re were a decent VFL player considering moving, you most likely would have decided already. And you certainly will by the time of the rookie draft in late November.

Had you considered moving to Sandringham because of the “guaranteed” rookie selection, one look at this forum would have had you second guessing whether St Kilda will follow through with their draft promise. So I think we need a full 12 months after we draft a Sandringham player to fully judge whether it is having an effect or not.

Point 6 - We have to choose someone, so who should it be?

Sandringham best and fairest results

Blamiers 41 (17 matches)
Lowe 41 (16)
Hipwell 40 (14)
Hall-Kahan 37 (17)
Watson 37 (17)

Sandringham coaches votes (after R17 - last four rounds weren’t announced)

Hipwell 10 (polled in 2 matches)
Hall-Kehan 9 (1)
Watson 2 (1)
Vesely 2 (1)

Best players named by Sandringham in results (6 points for best, 5 for second best etc.)

Hipwell 20 (named in 5 matches)
Hall-Kahan 16 (5)
Watson 13 (4)
Lowe 8 (3)
Zagari 3 (1)
MRyan 3 (1)
Blamires 2 (1)
Macnab 2 (1)
Vesely 1 (1)

Darcy Hipwell deserves the selection the most on those numbers. Hugo Hall-Kahan would be the other option - talented enough to be drafted previously to Sydney and he fills a position we don’t have depth in (small forward).

Point 7 - The lack of quality in the Sandringham options could actually be a positive.

There will be 50+ players in the VFL that look at the player we take in the rookie draft this season and think “I’m better than Hipwell/Hall Kahan/Watson etc. If they can get drafted, so can I”.

Make no mistake, if the Saints follow through with their draft promise, this becomes the easiest way on to an AFL list. That will attract attention.

Point 8 - This is a unique draft.

Using a list space on a Sandringham rookie, when we have four father son and Academy prospects is frustrating. It’s also compounded by it being the deepest draft of recent history.

But they aren’t all like this. Last year the talk was how there would be lucky to be 55 selections in the national draft. Next year is already looking weak as well, with Vic Metro - the barometer for depth - beaten comfortably by Queensland in August at Under 17 level.

Point 9 - The rookie selection isn’t the only change they’ve made.

When the announcement was made in October 2023, St Kilda said they would appoint a VFL Liaison Officer “to streamline the processes and overlap associated”, and that Sandringham would also employ a Recruiting Manager.

Sandringham listed players were a regular part of pre season training last year also.

Point 10 - We aren’t drafting Adrian Cole, Lenny Hofmann or Elwood Peckett as a loophole.

Paul Amy, who is the best journalist by a long way when it comes to VFL, mentioned in an article last week that it was confirmed that the selection will come from the Sandringham listed players.

The only caveat with this though is I’d wager that Amy’s source for that information was from Sandringham, not St Kilda. If St Kilda was planning on reneging on the deal, Sandringham might not be aware of it yet.

Point 11 - If we pull the pin now, then what?

As mentioned in Point 1, it looks like we are stuck with this alignment for a while. If we pull the pin on this commitment now we burn the trust between the two clubs. Then what to do we do for the next 4-5 years? The quality of Sandringham listed players will only continue to decline.

Great post, very un Big Footy like lol.
FYI Darby Hipwell has left Sandy and is signing with Frankston.

 

[sammm]

no, it'd only for draft year we can

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

thats a pity. it would be nice to be able have the option of 2 years for NGA pickup

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Great post, very un Big Footy like lol.
FYI Darby Hipwell has left Sandy and is signing with Frankston.

If the plan is to attract talent to Sandy then we shouldn’t draft someone who was already there and has now jumped ship.

Put a line through his name.

 

[TheJackal]

If the plan is to attract talent to Sandy then we shouldn’t draft someone who was already there and has now jumped ship.

Put a line through his name.

Or he left because he's  not the one getting the spot and he's cracked the sads.

It's honestly surprising that Sandy lost him considering what is being offered. It's meant to attract talent, not lose it.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

If the plan is to attract talent to Sandy then we shouldn’t draft someone who was already there and has now jumped ship.

Put a line through his name.

It could be our get out of jail free card...

"We were going to draft Darby/Derby/Herby as our Sandy commitment but since he's gone to Frankghanistan we'll have to pass on a Sandy player this year."

 

[maanco]

View attachment 2149873

His number better be 53

 

[Grav]

View attachment 2149873

His number better be 53

Not Herbie but Tom

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It could be our get out of jail free card...

"We were going to draft Darby/Derby/Herby as our Sandy commitment but since he's gone to Frankghanistan we'll have to pass on a Sandy player this year."

If we weren't going to go through with the deal we never should have announced it.
If we don't go through with the deal anything the Saints announce that they are "going to do " in the near future will be greeted by cries of "Buuuuulllshiiiit ".

I'm kind of disgusted at all the people on here who want the Saints to be the team with no integrity.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

If we weren't going to go through with the deal we never should have announced it.
If we don't go through with the deal anything the Saints announce that they are "going to do " in the near future will be greeted by cries of "Buuuuulllshiiiit ".

I'm kind of disgusted at all the people on here who want the Saints to be the team with no integrity.

You mean like the Pelican's elite junior development academy?

Strange thing to be disgusted by TBH.

 

[thekizzler]

You can mock it if you want but it doesn’t send a great message if we don’t pick him up. He’s got enough talent to be drafted late or as a rookie. We are trying to grow our Father Son program with Gil Wakelin and future prospects weighing up whether to nominate us or not its not a good look. Sandy commitment offers minimal advantage but a healthy father son program could be the difference between a second premiership as we’ve seen with Collingwood, Brisbane & Geelong. Not comparing Peckett obviously but we want confidence that if you show you have the talent then we will back you in.

This is one way of looking at it - but it's not black and white as you are making it out to be.

I'm not saying Peckett isn't good enough but let's say the club assess he is not up to it, then why pick him and waste a list spot?

If a future father-son doesn't want to come to the Saints because we didn't draft a previous father-son because we assessed they aren't good enough, then they can literally GAGF. I don't want them at the club. And I highly doubt this scenario would even happen regardless.

 

[HeavenlySources]

This is one way of looking at it - but it's not black and white as you are making it out to be.

I'm not saying Peckett isn't good enough but let's say the club assess he is not up to it, then why pick him and waste a list spot?

If a future father-son doesn't want to come to the Saints because we didn't draft a previous father-son because we assessed they aren't good enough, then they can literally GAGF. I don't want them at the club. And I highly doubt this scenario would even happen regardless.

It's more about having demonstrated the pathway for our father-sons to show those that advise them whether its managers, parents etc. "Hey if you join our father-son program and commit to it (and have enough talent) we will draft and give you shot just like Peckett". Right now we have 0 success stories.

The gold-standard obviously is Collingwood with the Peter Daicos academy and the Bulldogs. We aren't at the stage where we can just pick and choose we still have to sell it to our past players. Wakelin is a good example because he could nominate St Kilda OR Port, I'm sure there is plenty more players like that down the track Josh Battle (LOL), Brad Hill many others.

It is a long-term play for what is currently a non-existent father-son program and we are severely behind the 8 ball. I'd much rather invest a 'guaranteed' list spot to Father-son and/or Academy players than I would to our VFL listed players.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Apparently Hopwheel has moved on to make space for the flood of Bayside based gun recruits.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

This is one way of looking at it - but it's not black and white as you are making it out to be.

I'm not saying Peckett isn't good enough but let's say the club assess he is not up to it, then why pick him and waste a list spot?

If a future father-son doesn't want to come to the Saints because we didn't draft a previous father-son because we assessed they aren't good enough, then they can literally GAGF. I don't want them at the club. And I highly doubt this scenario would even happen regardless.

Agree. He may also simply be unlucky in a very deep draft whereas in other years he may well be bid on in the ND

 

[thekizzler]

It's more about having demonstrated the pathway for our father-sons to show those that advise them whether its managers, parents etc. "Hey if you join our father-son program and commit to it (and have enough talent) we will draft and give you shot just like Peckett". Right now we have 0 success stories.

The gold-standard obviously is Collingwood with the Peter Daicos academy and the Bulldogs. We aren't at the stage where we can just pick and choose we still have to sell it to our past players. Wakelin is a good example because he could nominate St Kilda OR Port, I'm sure there is plenty more players like that down the track Josh Battle (LOL), Brad Hill many others.

It is a long-term play for what is currently a non-existent father-son program and we are severely behind the 8 ball. I'd much rather invest a 'guaranteed' list spot to Father-son and/or Academy players than I would to our VFL listed players.

Yeah, I don't think this is a thing whatsoever, aside from in your head.

And we don't really know if Peckett has enough talent? Or if the club has assessed that he has?

Maybe you believe he does, but lucky you have nothing to do with our list management decisions.

I honestly don't know if he does have the talent, the same as you, but hope he makes it.

At the end of the day, the club is going to attract players based on its general success and strength of list, not on giving father-sons a go that may or may not be up to it.

I'm not sure there is much else we can do for our father-son program other than pray our players have sons that are good at football lol.

The only thing I agree with is that a guaranteed list spot to a father-son spud would be better than a VFL listed spud. As the VFL listed players are going to most likely get picked in the mid-season if they are any good.