List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[JimmyR20]

The Saints do have a problem with the distribution of ages in our squad (not just age, also experience).

Lets have a look at the squad set to play 08/06/24: Player number Name Age matches played


26 Battle 25y 112m 20 Howard 28y 126m 44 Wilkie 28y 121m

29 Webster 30y 155m 7 Wanganeen-Milera 21y 53m 35 Sinclair 29y 176m


8 Hill 30y 245m 2 Windhager 21y 48m 32 Wood 30y 124

19 Marshall 28y 122m 9 Steele 28y 170m 15 Dow 24y 76m


22 Wilson 18y 12m 23 Henry 22y 49m 10 Owens 20y 42m

1 Higgins 25y 111m 12 King 23y 80m Caminiti 20y 26m


6 Ross 31y 209m 11 Clark 25y 88m 16 Butler 28y 134m 28 Membrey 30y 170m 36 Bonner 27y 105m


The colour coding is to highlight my point; we have very few players on our injured list, so the squad assembled is pretty much our best squad. There are 12 players 27y or older who should be at their prime and some may be showing that they are past their prime. We have 5 players 23y - 26y, all of whom have played more than 50 matches. And we have 6 players 18y - 22y most of whom is approaching the 50 match mark (after which they will generally perform consistently). These players are holding a spot in this team, possibly pushing out more experienced players.

To some extent all clubs need to play recruits and allow them to gain experience. A good club will develop players by reviewing footage of performances to correct errors or suggest alternative actions to improve individual and team performances and then practicing those changes in training drills.

Every team should be a mix of experienced players, mid age players and youth.

St Kilda does not appear to be a "destination club" so we will need to focus on recruitment via the draft and through trades. The ultimate goal being to put together a squad capable of playing finals for a number of years and win a premiership. The number of quality youth being drafted will usually drop while the team is playing finals, so this window is best spent developing the previously recruited youth and spending draft picks on ready made players through trades.

My point is that we have a limited window of opportunity (2-3 seasons) with the players we have that are already experienced (27y and older). I can't see how our squad can be improved enough in that time frame. I am concerned that the next age cohort is too small to provide a comfortable transition as the older players retire.

Take Howard, Wilkie, Webster, Sinclair and Bonner out of that backline and we look very weak. Cordy is of similar age, so that leaves Battle, Nas, and Paton and untried defenders to fill the gaps. Players aged 23y-26y now are absolutely vital to the transition of our team going forward. We have too few of them and are compensating by playing youth in their place.

We also have a deficit of players in that mid age group through our midfield with Dow the only representative.

This leads me to believe that we must retain players in this 23y-26y age group as our highest priority. These players will be the experienced players holding the squad together while we train recruits to fill those spots. Those posters who argue that we should trade out Battle for the compensation pick are arguing to delay our era of playing finals for a further 3 or so years. I don't want further delays. I would rather trade players of that experience into our squad as we approach the "premiership window".

Updated this to make those players 30 or older a different colour. Players 27, 28, 29 can have 6 years left.

Only ones I'd be concerned about on our list from that side are Ross and Membrey.

The rest of the squad I personally think could still be here in 3 years time.

If Battle goes but we're able to bring in a couple cheaper moneyball players whilst our list continues to develop so be it.

That said if he leaves for less than $1m per year I'd be annoyed as I would hope our personal ceiling sits somewhere between $800k and $900k per year.

 

[phantom13]

Updated this to make those players 30 or older a different colour. Players 27, 28, 29 can have 6 years left.

Only ones I'd be concerned about on our list from that side are Ross and Membrey.

The rest of the squad I personally think could still be here in 3 years time.

If Battle goes but we're able to bring in a couple cheaper moneyball players whilst our list continues to develop so be it.

That said if he leaves for less than $1m per year I'd be annoyed as I would hope our personal ceiling sits somewhere between $800k and $900k per year.

Probably a more concise way of what I said.

Also in reality if we don’t **** up the tank this year we should have a replacement for Ross in this years draft and to borrow an NFL term, hopefully in 2-3 years time that replacement is the starter on the depth chart.

I think the future of our forward line is Sharman for Membrey. King number 1 and Camma as the 2nd tall/Ruck relief.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Probably a more concise way of what I said.

Also in reality if we don’t **** up the tank this year we should have a replacement for Ross in this years draft and to borrow an NFL term, hopefully in 2-3 years time that replacement is the starter on the depth chart.

I think the future of our forward line is Sharman for Membrey. King number 1 and Camma as the 2nd tall/Ruck relief.

Next year l think Hugo is easily able to replace Ross, then you have Pou and our FRDP who you'd expect to be getting significant game time.

If Battle ends up staying he might actually be a good option to replace Membrey. Move Doogs to CHF and Cordy FB also looking for another KPD on the cheap. Assuming Arie, Keeler, JVE and maybe Cole are on the list then we'd be set.
Sharman l like, but he doesn't bring the BDE that Batts can.

 

[stavro#4]

That's a more eloquent way of saying what I was trying to say.

We spent draft capital replacing this mid career group that is now older. We are going to get to a point where we need to replace the middle rungs with draft capital again at some point if we can't keep them. If we replace them the new players have no connection to anything but a pay cheque. Retaining players keeps cultural connection and buy in too.

Guys like Battle have become very good solid players but their absolute peak is still to come. He's about to hit his best 4 years. Hopefully he decides to stay.

This completely ignores what I’ve been telling this board for a good 6+months.

Everyone older then Max King is probably not going to be around for our next flag or on the fringes of that attempt.

The club openly talks about its core being King and younger on our list. This isn’t about Marshall + Steele + Wilkie + Sinclair + Hill.

Now Battle isn’t old, he also isn’t a star a match winner or the difference between losses and wins. He is effectively at the top end of “role players”.

It’s been the idea since last season. Hence the repetition of draft,draft,draft from the club.

Free agency is their plan to provide the top end talent that puts us over by landing stars or fills in the gaps of the squad and if Battle re-signs it wouldn’t surprise me if they pivot and go hard for Stengle or Ainsworth.

 

[stavro#4]

Twomey spends all his time following leads and checking sources and crunching numbers, he saves time by cutting his own hair, wearing his granddad's clothes, eating soup directly from tins in front of the laptop, and wastes zero time thinking about women. He is a classic nerd incel but who cares? He's got runs on the board when it comes to AFL trades and draft.

I couldn’t care less if he sleeps with his teddies and his girlfriend can be deflated and packed up after date night.

When he says something about the club or its players. You genuinely need to pay attention.

 

[JimmyR20]

This completely ignores what I’ve been telling this board for a good 6+months.

Everyone older then Max King is probably not going to be around for our next flag or on the fringes of that attempt.

The club openly talks about its core being King and younger on our list. This isn’t about Marshall + Steele + Wilkie + Sinclair + Hill.

Now Battle isn’t old, he also isn’t a star a match winner or the difference between losses and wins. He is effectively at the top end of “role players”.

It’s been the idea since last season. Hence the repetition of draft,draft,draft from the club.

Free agency is their plan to provide the top end talent that puts us over by landing stars or fills in the gaps of the squad and if Battle re-signs it wouldn’t surprise me if they pivot and go hard for Stengle or Ainsworth.

Clubs been very transparent on that core.

That said you would expect to see a bell curve of ages around that core so you'll still see 25%ish of the list older than King when we're really contending. And ideally our window opens before he hits that peak age.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Somewhat surprisingly haven't really heard much of Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

from the Lions as a free agent. We're not interested?

 

[stavro#4]

Clubs been very transparent on that core.

That said you would expect to see a bell curve of ages around that core so you'll still see 25%ish of the list older than King when we're really contending. And ideally our window opens before he hits that peak age.

Of course you would.

The point was more when people are drawing up best 22s and plotting ages. That this groups rise to contention will fall inline with King Nas Owens etc and we need to build instep with that.

It isn’t Wilkie Marshall Sinclair or Steele

 

[hangdog]

So because he says differently to your belief you question his manliness?

Are you suggesting it's not manly to sit and piss and to be a virgin?!

 

[stavro#4]

Are you suggesting it's not manly to sit and piss and to be a virgin?!

Is that what you think?

 

[hangdog]

Next topic:

Should we let Jack Hayes and Tim Membrey move to rival clubs and switch focus to younger draftees to flesh out the squad, or keep them as experienced depth?

I'd want to give Hayes one more year as a rookie/cheap option. His injury history prior to St Kilda was almost non-existent I think? He's a genuine 2nd ruck support for Marshall and gut runner.

Membery seems well last his peak now and could milk an extra season or two at another club. Better for him to move on. Will always be a fave of mine whether he stays or goes.

 

[Remboy]

I'd want to give Hayes one more year as a rookie/cheap option. His injury history prior to St Kilda was almost non-existent I think? He's a genuine 2nd ruck support for Marshall and gut runner.

Membery seems well last his peak now and could milk an extra season or two at another club. Better for him to move on. Will always be a fave of mine whether he stays or goes.

I reckon Hayes might be offered multiple years by other clubs to tempt him to leave. Can't see us offering more than one, especially if we can get a usable pick for him.

 

[gringo2011]

Next year l think Hugo is easily able to replace Ross, then you have Pou and our FRDP who you'd expect to be getting significant game time.

If Battle ends up staying he might actually be a good option to replace Membrey. Move Doogs to CHF and Cordy FB also looking for another KPD on the cheap. Assuming Arie, Keeler, JVE and maybe Cole are on the list then we'd be set.
Sharman l like, but he doesn't bring the BDE that Batts can.

Sharman would be good at the Fritsch role. Tiny dick energy but still effective.

 

[stavro#4]

Sharman would be good at the Fritsch role. Tiny dick energy but still effective.

Sharman and King suffer from all the shit dirty ball they get inside 50.

Caminiti is our only forward that suits that - because he bulldozers forward takes both sets of players in his way.

 

[gringo2011]

This completely ignores what I’ve been telling this board for a good 6+months.

Everyone older then Max King is probably not going to be around for our next flag or on the fringes of that attempt.

The club openly talks about its core being King and younger on our list. This isn’t about Marshall + Steele + Wilkie + Sinclair + Hill.

Now Battle isn’t old, he also isn’t a star a match winner or the difference between losses and wins. He is effectively at the top end of “role players”.

It’s been the idea since last season. Hence the repetition of draft,draft,draft from the club.

Free agency is their plan to provide the top end talent that puts us over by landing stars or fills in the gaps of the squad and if Battle re-signs it wouldn’t surprise me if they pivot and go hard for Stengle or Ainsworth.

So we are looking at challenging in 4 to 6 years? Jesus. At least I won't have to spend winters following us for a while. Don't know if I can be ****ed. At this stage there are probably only 2 pieces in place. Nas and maybe King with possibly Wilson if he stays on track. We might as well just cull like North. At least the hope wouldn't make it painful.

 

[Remboy]

Of course you would.

The point was more when people are drawing up best 22s and plotting ages. That this groups rise to contention will fall inline with King Nas Owens etc and we need to build instep with that.

It isn’t Wilkie Marshall Sinclair or Steele

That pretty much aligned with what I remember Bassett saying when we appointed Ross. We would be building through the draft.
Use our picks, try to add to what we've got through trades (Long) or free agency (Gresham), draft five or six kids a year and over four years you've added 20-25 draftees.
This requires us to nail our talent identification, trades and drafting hence we've brought in SOS, Gubby and Dalrymple. At the very least I don't think it's going to be dull.

 

[gringo2011]

I couldn’t care less if he sleeps with his teddies and his girlfriend can be deflated and packed up after date night.

When he says something about the club or its players. You genuinely need to pay attention.

The club probably used him to prime the league up and set expectation. They are just gossip hubs. They are manipulated by clubs and managers. They aren't oracles.

 

[stavro#4]

So we are looking at challenging in 4 to 6 years? Jesus. At least I won't have to spend winters following us for a while. Don't know if I can be ****ed. At this stage there are probably only 2 pieces in place. Nas and maybe King with possibly Wilson if he stays on track. We might as well just cull like North. At least the hope wouldn't make it painful.

Once we get midfielders. We will be playing finals every year.

That could be 1-2 top end kids this year.

That could mean 6-8th next year and landing LDU.

You can’t quantify when, because we don’t yet have those mids.

And I think everyone thinks we have:

Gun Key forward (King)
Gun forward/mid (Owens)
Gun outside mid (Wilson)
Gun halfback/wing (Nas)
Developing tall (Caminiti)
Developing forward/mid (Hugo)
Developing small forward (collard)
Exciting Half forward/Burst Mid (Henry)

Potential Gun mid/forward (Pou)
Solid midfielder & Tagger (Windy)

Then the unknowns: Shoenmaker Hastie Hall O’Connell McLennan Heath

Solid citizens: Dow Clark Higgins Cordy

Gun AFL level players who may still be around: Marshall Sinclair Steele Wilkie Hill

Battle ?

It’s nothing like North. But it clearly needs those mids.

 

[stavro#4]

The club probably used him to prime the league up and set expectation. They are just gossip hubs. They are manipulated by clubs and managers. They aren't oracles.

His entire job is to be on the money with trades and draft. This is the bloke that nails the top 10 pre draft for however many years now.

The one who has a show based on player movement during the season and then daily during trade period.

Stop being a clown and accept he knows what he is talking about. You’re looking stupid with these remarks.

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

This is the same b/s I have read on here since I joined, just started early this year.
It never ends up as predicted.

 

[Train12]

Somewhat surprisingly haven't really heard much of Jarrod Berry from the Lions as a free agent. We're not interested?

This is a good shout!

 

[MrFoster]

Experienced? Jack Hayes has played something like 4 AFL games.

Jack Hays is also 29 at the start of the next season..

 

[gringo2011]

Once we get midfielders. We will be playing finals every year.

That could be 1-2 top end kids this year.

That could mean 6-8th next year and landing LDU.

You can’t quantify when, because we don’t yet have those mids.

And I think everyone thinks we have:

Gun Key forward (King)
Gun forward/mid (Owens)
Gun outside mid (Wilson)
Gun halfback/wing (Nas)
Developing tall (Caminiti)
Developing forward/mid (Hugo)
Developing small forward (collard)
Exciting Half forward/Burst Mid (Henry)

Potential Gun mid/forward (Pou)
Solid midfielder & Tagger (Windy)

Then the unknowns: Shoenmaker Hastie Hall O’Connell McLennan Heath

Solid citizens: Dow Clark Higgins Cordy

Gun AFL level players who may still be around: Marshall Sinclair Steele Wilkie Hill

Battle ?

It’s nothing like North. But it clearly needs those mids.

So if we **** up drafting mids we won’t go anywhere? Weren’t you trying to tell us Hill was the missing piece? Honestly don’t think we have a real plan with list management other than hope. If we don’t have all our kids make it we are ****ed.

If we are down for a few years we need to knife Lyon. He is unwatchable. At least Tigers and Hawks aren’t boring to watch and give their fans hope. We are dispiriting.

 

[gringo2011]

His entire job is to be on the money with trades and draft. This is the bloke that nails the top 10 pre draft for however many years now.

The one who has a show based on player movement during the season and then daily during trade period.

Stop being a clown and accept he knows what he is talking about. You’re looking stupid with these remarks.

Yeah he literally would ring around the recruiters. There is usually a pretty obvious order these days on top of that so not like it’s a guess.

 

[Moral Decay]

And the cycle continues. Kids are pushed hard too early and lose confidence, they finally get their shit together and want out as soon as FA is possible.

I agree.

Problem is there's no perfect solution. I don't get to be a fly on the wall, nor do I get a say. And it doesn't mean I like it. It just is what it is.