MRP / Trib. All Things Richmond MRP/Trib - Mansell Offered 3 Weeks Upheld

[Grockadoc]

No wonder Benny Gale didn't want a bar of taking over from Gil McLachlan. He'd be the head of this abomination of an administration.

Seriously, we should appeal. There were SO many wrong statements made by thr AFl counsel, most notably that O'Connell was not contesting the mark after the push... He had his arms out in position for a chest mark and had eyes on the ball the whole time...

 

[Grockadoc]

assume so considering the loss

Bloke is even more incompetent at his job than Dillon and Kane...

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

Cards were marked before the hearing with every afl commentator and the CEO making comment. Talk about a loaded hearing.

 

[LTT]

Looking back on it after a couple of hours, I think a crucial mistake in our appeal was arguing that Mansell couldn't forsee Lynch and Caminiti coming out to contest the mark.

It's a clearance from the middle into an open forward line with 6-6-6. Any key fwd worth their salt would be going for that mark.

I'm disappointed we didn't go down the route of "is it reasonable for Mansell to forsee the hold on Lynch that places Lynch's arm where it was that resulted in O'Connell's concussion".

Imo, I think it's easier to argue that its unreasonable for players (Mansell in this case) to foresee an illegal act in a marking contest that leads to a concussion than arguing it's unreasonable for players to expect a marking contest.

Looking at the video, I think it's easy to make the case that if Lynch wasn't held in the marking contest, then he's able to raise his arms up to try and take the mark, meaning that O'Connell would've been pushed past the Lynch and Caminiti contest injury free.

You could make the case that Mansell was doing his duty of care by pushing O'Connell away from the contest rather than into the contest, but Caminiti's illegal hold on Lynch meant the contest didn't pan out in a foreseeable manner for Mansell to predict.

Clearly Mansell doesn't know about the hold on Lynch, since he is the one that actually starts to go back on the mark and ask for the ball, presumably thinking that the umpire has given the holding freekick against O'Connell for holding him.

Before the tribunal and all the other commentators even considered what Mansell should have foreseen the first question that needs to be addressed is, was it Mansells push that caused the collision or would O’Connell have got to the front of Lynch anyway. The fact that O’Connell was 5 metres away from Mansell, still on his feet and had his hands outstretched trying to mark the ball would suggest that he has not falling out of control but rather that was still in control of his movement to a significant extent. The fact that he appeared to try and position his body to mark the ball would suggest he could also have pivoted to avoid the collision. So unless the tribunal is certain that (1) O’Connell could not avoid the collision after Mansell’s push and (2) did not contribute to the collision, then the tribunal should just dismiss the charge. With all the clear cut incidents that have happened why did the AFL choose this one.

 

[Groupie_]

Bloke is even more incompetent at his job than Dillon and Kane...

 

[_RT_]

‘Battered fan syndrome’ getting to some tiger fans now, lol

“It’s our fault really, we brought it on ourselves”

you need the tin foil hat to believe Richmond plays the game harder than any other club

Where did I say non other team plays the game hard?

As it stands were currently ranked 11th for free kick differential(+7) and we won the free kick counts against both Port (+6)& Saints (+2) in away games this year and lost the count by 1 to Carlton.

But the AFL, sorry CFL have it in for us. I really do worry about some of you if you're truly believing there is some big conspiracy being run against the club by the league.

 

[_RT_]

Precisely, it used to be an excuse given, it's the coach the way we play. Well now our head coach and numerous assistants are now head coaches at other clubs all copying the Richmond style of play in one way or another. And we are still bottom of the free kick ladder.

Try again, were currently ranked 11th and won the free kick count the last 2 weeks.

 

[Thrasher97]

just as they could see he knew the marking contest was there - it was clear Aints guy was running back with flight of ball and was going to do so regardless of Mansells 'tickle'

Saint guy was like this chap in the old looney Tunes cartoon.
View attachment I got it i got It .mp4

 

[kozi]

We need to spend up on blooze lawyer who gets their players off for murder on technicalities

Cripps didn’t shoot him he shot at him

 

[Meteoric Rise]

This you?

Read the room. You argued vehemently against something most Richmond supporters felt strongly about - that Ginbey should be suspended for deliberately or recklessly shoving Lalor into oncoming traffic at high speed by pushing him in the back. Now you are arguing people are reacting wrongly when a Richmond player is rubbed out for a push that preceded his opponent electing to run recklessly into oncoming traffic to try to take a mark.

Our supporters have no idea of the precise mechanics of the AFL officiating against us at every turn. Such is the nature of these things that nobody is ever likely to own up to any revealing detail.

All we know is it just keeps happening…

- Houli decision to suspend for 2 weeks at Tribunal appealed by the same organisation that failed to even site players for incidents for which they were responsible that saw Richmond players seriously injured, Hawkins/Soldo, Dangerfield/Vlastuin, Ginbey/Lalor

- Lynch suspended for a bump that caused no injury after he was pushed into the contest because “he was going to bump anyway.” 2 short weeks later in the Mansell case the “he was going to do it anyway” principle counts for zero at the exact same Tribunal

- 3 Richmond players charged by the MRO in one match in 2020, ALL overturned by the Tribunal. Think about that for a minute. The odds of that occurring if those charges were not the result of biased officiating are astronomical

- accredited reporters reporting AFL Footy Operations boss Steven Hocking(the CEO in waiting of the club we kept beating in finals no less) had become “increasingly angry” with elements of the way Richmond played. He then was the main driver behind rule changes designed specifically to help his club Geelong shake the hold we had over them

- free kick results that for 8 years now have put Richmond way out of step with what would be normal for the 18th worst off team in an 8 year period. We have finished 18th on the free kick differential in 6 of those years, 17th in another year and 13th in the other. This is just what we can get access to. We are known to be the worst off for 50m penalty rulings every time that figure is revealed. When we watch games as Richmond supporters we get the same feeling from all the other rulings umpires make - advantage calls, marks paid/not paid, play on calls etc.

- Common sense gate where the AFL said it was fine for an umpire not to enforce a rule in our favour giving us a shot at goal to win post siren, because it was “common sense.” Only this had not been applied in the same situation when one of our players had similarly infringed.

- It was also not applied when umpires could see Dion Prestia KO’d illegally and being frantically attended by medical staff where the umps insisted on the play continuing around him for 2 whole minutes until the opposition(surprise surprise Geelong) scored what turned out to be the goal that won them the game.

- triangulation gate. Where the AFL employed and defended a method of over-ruling Richmond’s winning goal in a final by a method so dodgy that it has never once been employed in 500 odd games since. Which team do you think might have been the main beneficiary of our elimination from the race to meet them in a Preliminary Final? You guessed it, Geelong.

- 2 X very dubious Marlion Pickett charges/tribunal outcomes where his potential penalties were maximised, one of which involved a passage of play where he copped a roundhouse swinging arm “tackle” clear on the head which the MRO chose to ignore. From memory he was suspended both times for “potential to cause injury.” Which is rarely used bar on Richmond players.

- 2 X extremely dubious Mansell suspensions, one where he was genuinely contesting the ball, the other for an offence that seemed to have little or no causal link to the collision he was reported for causing.

- Dubious outcome in the B Ellis FA compo case that our club was very unhappy about. Guess which future Geelong CEO made that decision?

I am almost certainly missing some more obvious ones. Who could forget our 8 X technical 50m penalties game against Carlton for eg.

If you think all of these things are just the result of the way the cookie crumbles, you are stretching the boundaries of what most of us could ever accept as credible. It is abundantly clear to the rest of us we are suffering heavily biased officiating by the AFL. Like, way beyond the normal level of bias most fans feel their team suffers. We know the difference, because we were in the latter category all my life up to 8 years ago, and since then we have been in the former category. 500,000 people don’t just simultaneously imagine the same thing where that thing is false.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

We got off lucky. Nek minnit they’ll suspend a player for half the season for not running through the banner correctly

Only if the Richmond player takes out the banner pole holder with a mighty push!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Cards were marked before the hearing with every afl commentator and the CEO making comment. Talk about a loaded hearing.

Appeal on unfair prejudicial public bias to our player...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Where did I say non other team plays the game hard?

As it stands were currently ranked 11th for free kick differential(+7) and we won the free kick counts against both Port (+6)& Saints (+2) in away games this year and lost the count by 1 to Carlton.

But the AFL, sorry CFL have it in for us. I really do worry about some of you if you're truly believing there is some big conspiracy being run against the club by the league.

This ignores the small matter of the free kick counts in the 190 odd games that immediately preceded the 3 games that have been played this year.

If we are finally umpired favourably in the year we start as no chance for finals wooden spoon favourites, it only adds more fuel to the dumpster fire of officiating we copped in the last 8 seasons where we started the year as a threat. Because it would then seem blindingly obvious why the way we are umpired has changed, and that it is not an organic change.

 

[DickieKnee]

We need to spend up on blooze lawyer who gets their players off for murder on technicalities

Cripps didn’t shoot him he shot at him

It's not the lawyer. Different rules for players like Cripps, Daicos etc.

 

[smasha]

No wonder Benny Gale didn't want a bar of taking over from Gil McLachlan. He'd be the head of this abomination of an administration.

Seriously, we should appeal. There were SO many wrong statements made by thr AFl counsel, most notably that O'Connell was not contesting the mark after the push... He had his arms out in position for a chest mark and had eyes on the ball the whole time...

Pinocchios.

 

[kozi]

It's not the lawyer. Different rules for players like Cripps, Daicos etc.

Which is why we need a dirty lawyer to fight the dirty system

 

[tora tora tora]

y What a crock of shit , Caroline Wilson said it herself two years ago on live tv , AFl were still holding grudges against RFC . And If you honestly think we get umpired fairly then just

Whately's State of the game crisis coincided with Dimma's dynasty.
2019 666 was introduced. AFL studied that RFC set up most that way.
2 flags followed. 2021 Stand rule introduced by in response to the way Cotchin stood the mark. To make the game faster.
WOW ~ massive improvement !!

2020 Stack & CJ incident ended up being a soft cap fine. Maybe cost McRae & Leppa


I think Barrot has written about AFL HQ being p off.


Mansell 3 weeks ,

AFL not bowing to noise and leaving Balta 6

 

[_RT_]

Read the room. You argued vehemently against something most Richmond supporters felt strongly about - that Ginbey should be suspended for deliberately or recklessly shoving Lalor into oncoming traffic at high speed by pushing him in the back. Now you are arguing people are reacting wrongly when a Richmond player is rubbed out for a push that preceded his opponent electing to run recklessly into oncoming traffic to try to take a mark.

Our supporters have no idea of the precise mechanics of the AFL officiating against us at every turn. Such is the nature of these things that nobody is ever likely to own up to any revealing detail.

All we know is it just keeps happening…

- Houli decision to suspend for 2 weeks at Tribunal appealed by the same organisation that failed to even site players for incidents for which they were responsible that saw Richmond players seriously injured, Hawkins/Soldo, Dangerfield/Vlastuin, Ginbey/Lalor

- Lynch suspended for a bump that caused no injury after he was pushed into the contest because “he was going to bump anyway.” 2 short weeks later in the Mansell case the “he was going to do it anyway” principle counts for zero at the exact same Tribunal

- 3 Richmond players charged by the MRO in one match in 2020, ALL overturned by the Tribunal. Think about that for a minute. The odds of that occurring if those charges were not the result of biased officiating are astronomical

- accredited reporters reporting AFL Footy Operations boss Steven Hocking(the CEO in waiting of the club we kept beating in finals no less) had become “increasingly angry” with elements of the way Richmond played. He then was the main driver behind rule changes designed specifically to help his club Geelong shake the hold we had over them

- free kick results that for 8 years now have put Richmond way out of step with what would be normal for the 18th worst off team in an 8 year period. We have finished 18th on the free kick differential in 6 of those years, 17th in another year and 13th in the other. This is just what we can get access to. We are known to be the worst off for 50m penalty rulings every time that figure is revealed. When we watch games as Richmond supporters we get the same feeling from all the other rulings umpires make - advantage calls, marks paid/not paid, play on calls etc.

- Common sense gate where the AFL said it was fine for an umpire not to enforce a rule in our favour giving us a shot at goal to win post siren, because it was “common sense.” Only this had not been applied in the same situation when one of our players had similarly infringed.

- It was also not applied when umpires could see Dion Prestia KO’d illegally and being frantically attended by medical staff where the umps insisted on the play continuing around him for 2 whole minutes until the opposition(surprise surprise Geelong) scored what turned out to be the goal that won them the game.

- triangulation gate. Where the AFL employed and defended a method of over-ruling Richmond’s winning goal in a final by a method so dodgy that it has never once been employed in 500 odd games since. Which team do you think might have been the main beneficiary of our elimination from the race to meet them in a Preliminary Final? You guessed it, Geelong.

- 2 X very dubious Marlion Pickett charges/tribunal outcomes where his potential penalties were maximised, one of which involved a passage of play where he copped a roundhouse swinging arm “tackle” clear on the head which the MRO chose to ignore. From memory he was suspended both times for “potential to cause injury.” Which is rarely used bar on Richmond players.

- 2 X extremely dubious Mansell suspensions, one where he was genuinely contesting the ball, the other for an offence that seemed to have little or no causal link to the collision he was reported for causing.

- Dubious outcome in the B Ellis FA compo case that our club was very unhappy about. Guess which future Geelong CEO made that decision?

I am almost certainly missing some more obvious ones. Who could forget our 8 X technical 50m penalties game against Carlton for eg.

If you think all of these things are just the result of the way the cookie crumbles, you are stretching the boundaries of what most of us could ever accept as credible. It is abundantly clear to the rest of us we are suffering heavily biased officiating by the AFL. Like, way beyond the normal level of bias most fans feel their team suffers. We know the difference, because we were in the latter category all my life up to 8 years ago, and since then we have been in the former category. 500,000 people don’t just simultaneously imagine the same thing where that thing is false.

 

[smasha]

Whately's State of the game crisis coincided with Dimma's dynasty.
2019 666 was introduced. AFL studied that RFC set up most that way.
2 flags followed. 2021 Stand rule introduced by in response to the way Cotchin stood the mark. To make the game faster.
WOW ~ massive improvement !!

2020 Stack & CJ incident ended up being a soft cap fine. Maybe cost McRae & Leppa


I think Barrot has written about AFL HQ being p off.


Mansell 3 weeks ,

AFL not bowing to noise and leaving Balta 6

Imagine if Benny was in charge and Geelong top of the ladder.

Would he put through rule changes to stop them?

No.

He is a Richmond man.

Not low enough to do that.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Imagine if Dangerflog did the same thing. Reckon he'd be up for 3 weeks?

 

[Wooden Robot]

This is the thing that pisses me off the most Whiskers. If they had suspended Ginbey like they should have, I would not be upset about Mansell being rubbed out. You can’t have the league picking and choosing when to suspend someone. Ginbey’s was far worse to my eyes, it was a two handed forceful push.

And then on top of that you have the AFL CEO making comment on the case before the hearing has even started. Pointing out differences between the Ginbey case and this one. You knew right then and there that the appeal was a waste of time and was going to fail.

All great points, Freddy.

I knew Mansell was gone the moment it happened, but no one can defend the Ginbey incident as being less detrimental or anywhere near as malicious. The message should have been sent then.
Can't condone Mansell's actions, but the AFL are as you say, 'picking and choosing' and then cloud matters even further by offering lame excuses and explanations.

As for the AFL CEO, he should not be commenting and prejudicing the outcome. But the AFL, as we know, is a law unto its own. It does not happen in any other sport or field.

As for Richmond FC, grow some balls and speak out about this nonsense.
We'll always get reamed as we sit back and take it.
No wonder the AFL is pretty much dead to me.

 

[Hoos]

Agree your guy was dudded

Again.

F**ked over, again.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Well said, this is spot on. I keep harping on about RFC pushing the woke and any Government agenda. It seems to me that they value social ideologies over actual football.

Not lost on me that administrators like Richmond, Wilson and Schwab (Alan) would not be sitting back letting all of this happen and would actually go into battle against City Hall. They would more often than not push back or at worst rock the boat significantly.
We have just fallen in line - and sadly - we get what we deserve as a consequence.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Read the room. You argued vehemently against something most Richmond supporters felt strongly about - that Ginbey should be suspended for deliberately or recklessly shoving Lalor into oncoming traffic at high speed by pushing him in the back. Now you are arguing people are reacting wrongly when a Richmond player is rubbed out for a push that preceded his opponent electing to run recklessly into oncoming traffic to try to take a mark.

Our supporters have no idea of the precise mechanics of the AFL officiating against us at every turn. Such is the nature of these things that nobody is ever likely to own up to any revealing detail.

All we know is it just keeps happening…

- Houli decision to suspend for 2 weeks at Tribunal appealed by the same organisation that failed to even site players for incidents for which they were responsible that saw Richmond players seriously injured, Hawkins/Soldo, Dangerfield/Vlastuin, Ginbey/Lalor

- Lynch suspended for a bump that caused no injury after he was pushed into the contest because “he was going to bump anyway.” 2 short weeks later in the Mansell case the “he was going to do it anyway” principle counts for zero at the exact same Tribunal

- 3 Richmond players charged by the MRO in one match in 2020, ALL overturned by the Tribunal. Think about that for a minute. The odds of that occurring if those charges were not the result of biased officiating are astronomical

- accredited reporters reporting AFL Footy Operations boss Steven Hocking(the CEO in waiting of the club we kept beating in finals no less) had become “increasingly angry” with elements of the way Richmond played. He then was the main driver behind rule changes designed specifically to help his club Geelong shake the hold we had over them

- free kick results that for 8 years now have put Richmond way out of step with what would be normal for the 18th worst off team in an 8 year period. We have finished 18th on the free kick differential in 6 of those years, 17th in another year and 13th in the other. This is just what we can get access to. We are known to be the worst off for 50m penalty rulings every time that figure is revealed. When we watch games as Richmond supporters we get the same feeling from all the other rulings umpires make - advantage calls, marks paid/not paid, play on calls etc.

- Common sense gate where the AFL said it was fine for an umpire not to enforce a rule in our favour giving us a shot at goal to win post siren, because it was “common sense.” Only this had not been applied in the same situation when one of our players had similarly infringed.

- It was also not applied when umpires could see Dion Prestia KO’d illegally and being frantically attended by medical staff where the umps insisted on the play continuing around him for 2 whole minutes until the opposition(surprise surprise Geelong) scored what turned out to be the goal that won them the game.

- triangulation gate. Where the AFL employed and defended a method of over-ruling Richmond’s winning goal in a final by a method so dodgy that it has never once been employed in 500 odd games since. Which team do you think might have been the main beneficiary of our elimination from the race to meet them in a Preliminary Final? You guessed it, Geelong.

- 2 X very dubious Marlion Pickett charges/tribunal outcomes where his potential penalties were maximised, one of which involved a passage of play where he copped a roundhouse swinging arm “tackle” clear on the head which the MRO chose to ignore. From memory he was suspended both times for “potential to cause injury.” Which is rarely used bar on Richmond players.

- 2 X extremely dubious Mansell suspensions, one where he was genuinely contesting the ball, the other for an offence that seemed to have little or no causal link to the collision he was reported for causing.

- Dubious outcome in the B Ellis FA compo case that our club was very unhappy about. Guess which future Geelong CEO made that decision?

I am almost certainly missing some more obvious ones. Who could forget our 8 X technical 50m penalties game against Carlton for eg.

If you think all of these things are just the result of the way the cookie crumbles, you are stretching the boundaries of what most of us could ever accept as credible. It is abundantly clear to the rest of us we are suffering heavily biased officiating by the AFL. Like, way beyond the normal level of bias most fans feel their team suffers. We know the difference, because we were in the latter category all my life up to 8 years ago, and since then we have been in the former category. 500,000 people don’t just simultaneously imagine the same thing where that thing is false.

I just can’t like this post enough MR. Absolutely nailed it.

 

[Freddy Swift]

Imagine if Dangerflog did the same thing. Reckon he'd be up for 3 weeks?

Not a chance in hell.