Remove this Banner Ad

Richmond - time for a rebuild?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BigVic
  • Start date Start date
  • Tagged users Tagged users None

šŸ„° Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Shueygod said:
This is the list build mostly done? Team will peak at 14th šŸ˜‚
Click to expand...

You probably forgot with all the negative publicity....our last list build peaked at total obliteration of the competition for 4 years with 3 flags and a minor, 2 GF sprint wins, a VFL flag, Brownlow, 3 Smith Medals, 3 Ayres Medals, several Yiuken Awards, the opening of the Bachar Houli Foundation, the longest MCG win streak in history, the greatest Grand Final % across multiple GF's in history(222%,) not 1 but 2 players kicking more goals than the whole opposition team in a GF, several cultural awards, first club to reach 100k members & to this day the only club to reach 100k genuine members, which was achieved in 6 successive seasons, first female President, first female President of a flag team, first & only female President of a dynasty team, too many more modesty prevents me from mentioning.

I bet you just can't wait to see what we have in store for you next time. :cool:
 
Meteoric Rise said:
You probably forgot with all the negative publicity....our last list build peaked at total obliteration of the competition for 4 years with 3 flags and a minor, 2 GF sprint wins, a VFL flag, Brownlow, 3 Smith Medals, 3 Ayres Medals, several Yiuken Awards, the opening of the Bachar Houli Foundation, the longest MCG win streak in history, the greatest Grand Final % across multiple GF's in history(222%,) not 1 but 2 players kicking more goals than the whole opposition team in a GF, several cultural awards, first club to reach 100k members & to this day the only club to reach 100k genuine members, which was achieved in 6 successive seasons, first female President, first female President of a flag team, first & only female President of a dynasty team, too many more modesty prevents me from mentioning.

I bet you just can't wait to see what we have in store for you next time. :cool:
Click to expand...

Your last list build took 35 years.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
We had dynasty players that had been at the club 35 years?

I don't think so this is true RUN buddy. None of them were even 35 years of age.
Click to expand...

Well good luck with your build. I am sure all the young players will develop correctly getting pumped by 80 points every week. Just ask Jack Trengove how his career went after being selected at pick 2 in the draft to a terrible team that did not allow him to develop correctly.
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

RUNVS said:
Well good luck with your build. I am sure all the young players will develop correctly getting pumped by 80 points every week. Just ask Jack Trengove how his career went after being selected at pick 2 in the draft to a terrible team that did not allow him to develop correctly.
Click to expand...

Great clubs developing great teams tell their players not to look at the scoreboard RUN baby.

Here is the official Toyota AFL Premiership ladder 9 games into the 2010 season. It didn't seem to harm the young Tigers development too much, no club above the Tigers on that ladder has won more flags since. :cool:


1740695209352.png
 
The Hopper and Taranto trades are what will cost them ultimately.

Whilst it still wouldn't be pretty - Something likes Weddle, Gruzewski and Curtin would be an entirely different base to start building off.

At least North had Cunnington, Ziebell, Goldy, Swallow, Higgins, Brown, Thompson, Tarrant at the start then added LDU, Simpkin early and look at the result.

Carlton had Judd, Betts, Murphy, Walker, Kruezer, Simpson, Waite, Scotland etc and still look at them.

They are probably closest to that Melbourne side which was pretty much Jones, McLean, Rivers, Stefan Martin, Maloney, Howe and a bunch of kids.

or the early GWS side which was 30+ Luke Power, Cornes, Brogan, James McDonald, young Callan Ward, Scully, Davis and Palmer and pretty much draftee's.

I think this list is as bad as the worst Melbourne and GWS sides.

Highly likely that someone like Kamdyn McIntosh is chance to win their B&F and a player like Rhyan Mansell is in their best half a dozen this year.
 
Sphynx said:
The Hopper and Taranto trades are what will cost them ultimately.

Whilst it still wouldn't be pretty - Something likes Weddle, Gruzewski and Curtin would be an entirely different base to start building off.

At least North had Cunnington, Ziebell, Goldy, Swallow, Higgins, Brown, Thompson, Tarrant at the start then added LDU, Simpkin early and look at the result.

Carlton had Judd, Betts, Murphy, Walker, Kruezer, Simpson, Waite, Scotland etc and still look at them.

They are probably closest to that Melbourne side which was pretty much Jones, McLean, Rivers, Stefan Martin, Maloney, Howe and a bunch of kids.

or the early GWS side which was 30+ Luke Power, Cornes, Brogan, James McDonald, young Callan Ward, Scully, Davis and Palmer and pretty much draftee's.
Click to expand...

Yep, Tigers only have 8( Premiership players(7 multiple) on our list after our biggest intake of talent.

I will give you a task now....name the 2025 Richmond midfield without Hopper and Taranto in it...
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Yep, Tigers only have 8( Premiership players(7 multiple) on our list after our biggest intake of talent.

I will give you a task now....name the 2025 Richmond midfield without Hopper and Taranto in it...
Click to expand...

Most of which are virtually irrelevant at this point (Lynch, Prestia and Vlaustin) and will be coasting out their final contracts.

Nankervis is a good honest player and you dont want a young ruck in there obviously.

All good for off field and training mentoring obviously, but aren't going to prevent the avalanche.

The likes of Broad, McIntosh, Short are "premiership players" - I.e they were probably players that are decent enough C+ graders, but could be found in pretty much most teams from 1st-18th. They wont change a thing.

A lot of people supporterted the amount of KPP's in last years draft as the foundation. But I found it crazy personally. They essentially took a player who might be a forward pocket for the next 3-4 years, Smillie who is not a big clearance winner and doesn't play like one, he plays like a second reciever, and Hotton who is a fwd/mid coming off an ACL. The rest were virtually talls. Not one natural big ball winner around the contest in the lot of them.

Dyson Sharp aside (who is 3-4 years from this point before being in the same position someone like Sheezel, Daicos or JHF is even if he does reach his ceiling) isn't going to solve anything anytime soon.

There is ALOT of pain for the next 80-100 games imo.

To put that in perspective, Brad Scott was North's coach around 100 games ago.
 
Sphynx said:
Most of which are virtually irrelevant at this point (Lynch, Prestia and Vlaustin) and will be coasting out their final contracts.

Nankervis is a good honest player and you dont want a young ruck in there obviously.

All good for off field and training mentoring obviously, but aren't going to prevent the avalanche.

The likes of Broad, McIntosh, Short are "premiership players" - I.e they were probably players that are decent enough C+ graders, but could be found in pretty much most teams from 1st-18th. They wont change a thing.

A lot of people supporterted the amount of KPP's in last years draft as the foundation. But I found it crazy personally. They essentially took a player who might be a forward pocket for the next 3-4 years, Smillie who is not a big clearance winner and doesn't play like one, he plays like a second reciever, and Hotton who is a fwd/mid coming off an ACL. The rest were virtually talls. Not one natural big ball winner around the contest in the lot of them.

Dyson Sharp aside (who is 3-4 years from this point before being in the same position someone like Sheezel, Daicos or JHF is even if he does reach his ceiling) isn't going to solve anything anytime soon.

There is ALOT of pain for the next 80-100 games imo.

To put that in perspective, Brad Scott was North's coach around 100 games ago.
Click to expand...

Richmond won't expect to be properly competitive for 3-4 years or so. After that they will expect to be giving a decent account of themselves.

The Tigers will have at least 3 top 5 picks to come. They will have the opportunity to bring in almost limitless players from other clubs in areas of need. Consider Adelaide were probably capable of making finals 2023, and I think will be a decent chance in 2025.

They have brought in the following great & good players previously from other clubs over the last 6 off-seasons:

29yo Burgess*, Bullen
28yo Keays
27yo Dawson
26yo Hinge, Cumming
24yo Peatling, McAndrew, Rankine, Keane

* probably inconsequential

8-9 useful players they have comfortably amassed who previously were at other clubs. That is what a huge amount of cap space, and good opportunities can do for a threadbare team who is well run. And the Crows never had the birthday party draft Richmond has just had, because they didn't have the valuable players to sell to get the picks.

You could also look at Hawks who have pursued a similar model but without the huge draft hand to fuel inject the rebuild. It is not just a matter of drafting 18 yo's and waiting 10 years for the last of them to be mature. The Tigers will almost certainly be shedding talented players into the market within 5 years.
 
Sphynx said:
The Hopper and Taranto trades are what will cost them ultimately.

Whilst it still wouldn't be pretty - Something likes Weddle, Gruzewski and Curtin would be an entirely different base to start building off.

At least North had Cunnington, Ziebell, Goldy, Swallow, Higgins, Brown, Thompson, Tarrant at the start then added LDU, Simpkin early and look at the result.

Carlton had Judd, Betts, Murphy, Walker, Kruezer, Simpson, Waite, Scotland etc and still look at them.

They are probably closest to that Melbourne side which was pretty much Jones, McLean, Rivers, Stefan Martin, Maloney, Howe and a bunch of kids.

or the early GWS side which was 30+ Luke Power, Cornes, Brogan, James McDonald, young Callan Ward, Scully, Davis and Palmer and pretty much draftee's.

I think this list is as bad as the worst Melbourne and GWS sides.

Highly likely that someone like Kamdyn McIntosh is chance to win their B&F and a player like Rhyan Mansell is in their best half a dozen this year.
Click to expand...
Just says there is more room for improvement. And when Sheezel decides he wants a change of scenery we'll have room to accommodate him.
 
Lot of hurt to come for the tigers, not going to be fun to sit through, but Iā€™m sure if you guys had 3 premierships and perceived to still be in the window you would have gone for it. We misjudged, have capitulated and will be in the basement.

Besides a maybe more savvy strategy of topping up and rolling the dice on fringe 22 year olds, (who wouldnā€™t want to come to a recent premiership team with little chance to play), what should we have done? Curtain would be nice on our list but weā€™d be in a similar spot. Draft better? Yeah I guess

Happy to be punched down at, I know north fans are chomping at the bit to have someone below them to have a crack at, but when your recent history isnā€™t so demoralising and depressing it doesnā€™t quite hurt the same.
 
RUNVS said:
Your last list build took 35 years.
Click to expand...
Bit hard to compare the 80s and 90s to the degree of professionalism that has been invested into junior pathways in the last 20 or so years.

Suffice to say that the club is in a substantially better position than on the verge of bankruptcy in the early 90s and having one full time recruiter at the 2004 draft.
RUNVS said:
Well good luck with your build. I am sure all the young players will develop correctly getting pumped by 80 points every week. Just ask Jack Trengove how his career went after being selected at pick 2 in the draft to a terrible team that did not allow him to develop correctly.
Click to expand...
I think Jack Trengove's career was going fantastically until 2012 where he was then cut down by a navicular, couldn't run (which was a main weapon of his game) and then proceeded to continue to injure the same foot for the next two years.

Yes Paul Roos thinks his development was impacted by being made captain at 20, but I don't think Richmond are about to make someone like Lalor captain when there's still blokes like Vlastuin, Broad, Short, Taranto etc. at the club.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Sphynx said:
Most of which are virtually irrelevant at this point (Lynch, Prestia and Vlaustin) and will be coasting out their final contracts.

Nankervis is a good honest player and you dont want a young ruck in there obviously.

All good for off field and training mentoring obviously, but aren't going to prevent the avalanche.

The likes of Broad, McIntosh, Short are "premiership players" - I.e they were probably players that are decent enough C+ graders, but could be found in pretty much most teams from 1st-18th. They wont change a thing.

A lot of people supporterted the amount of KPP's in last years draft as the foundation. But I found it crazy personally. They essentially took a player who might be a forward pocket for the next 3-4 years, Smillie who is not a big clearance winner and doesn't play like one, he plays like a second reciever, and Hotton who is a fwd/mid coming off an ACL. The rest were virtually talls. Not one natural big ball winner around the contest in the lot of them.

Dyson Sharp aside (who is 3-4 years from this point before being in the same position someone like Sheezel, Daicos or JHF is even if he does reach his ceiling) isn't going to solve anything anytime soon.

There is ALOT of pain for the next 80-100 games imo.

To put that in perspective, Brad Scott was North's coach around 100 games ago.
Click to expand...
Fair points. Iā€™m more optimistic on Smillie being a clearance mid than you are. His numbers last year suggest this.

I agree we need another grunt contested mid and a quick outside running receiving mid that can kick.

But when I look at the way north has recruited they have gone midfield first and talls later. Talls take longer and I would have gone the other way round, so Iā€™m happy recruiting a glut of talls and hopefully we get our 2 tall forwards from that group.

Trainor will be a player down back and if we get Gibcus up and running and Balta back to his best thatā€™s the tall defenders sorted.

Hotton could be our game breaker but itā€™s a risk with his knee. Worth taking based on his talent.

We need more speed off half back and wing, a quality high half forward grunt running mid, a ruck and a goal kicking small forward.

Still lots of holes in the list but hopefully with two top 5 picks this year we can address the midfield then hit the other areas of the ground through later picks in future years and free agency as the team establishes itself.

Itā€™s a long term build though no doubt.
 
BF Tiger said:
Just says there is more room for improvement. And when Sheezel decides he wants a change of scenery we'll have room to accommodate him.
Click to expand...
Thereā€™s no chance Sheezel leaves. Heā€™s heart and soul North now.

LDU is their flight risk. Big step backwards in their rebuild if he goes.
 
RUNVS said:
Well good luck with your build. I am sure all the young players will develop correctly getting pumped by 80 points every week. Just ask Jack Trengove how his career went after being selected at pick 2 in the draft to a terrible team that did not allow him to develop correctly.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's completely comparable

Richmond for a start will not exactly make the same mistake we did with Trengove you'd think, by forcing the captaincy upon young players at such a young inexperienced age. Then when he handed it off and tried to focus on his own game again a navicular injury kept him off the track for almost 3 years, that's hard to come back from

But you could name a lot of other players from that era from the dees, Jetta almost never made it if Roos didn't see something worth giving a chance on the rookie list. Watts had his confidence shattered so much that apparently it's been said that Roos had to constantly reassure him. Although i will say a lot of that 2012-2013 list was never going to be long term AFL talent, a lot of the 07-11 selections never really made it either
 
Sphynx said:
I think this list is as bad as the worst Melbourne and GWS sides.
Click to expand...
That GWS side won 6 games in their 3rd season, then 11 and won 16 in their 5th season.

Do you know what year it was that North won 16 games or more?
1999.

Youā€™ve got 23 players that are pick 27 or better.
You cut really hard in 2020.

We cut really hard in 2024.

Letā€™s see what happens.
 

šŸ„° Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Still a few years of pain to go at least.

Midfield - We need a few more mids - preferably outside mids.
Ruckman - I'm hoping Sims is able to become a Ruck / forward over time but still an area we need to look at
Small forward - we seem to have more than ample key forwards (one might even end up as a key back now that we have a few) but we are lacking a young small forward with goal sense
Wing - We need someone with a bit of polish and pace.

I think over the next couple of drafts we could tick off these boxes with what will be 4 to 5 quality picks. Once the core list has a few seasons in them, then look to Free agency for the cream and rapid improvement.
 
PerfectFooty said:
I don't think that's completely comparable

Richmond for a start will not exactly make the same mistake we did with Trengove you'd think, by forcing the captaincy upon young players at such a young inexperienced age. Then when he handed it off and tried to focus on his own game again a navicular injury kept him off the track for almost 3 years, that's hard to come back from

But you could name a lot of other players from that era from the dees, Jetta almost never made it if Roos didn't see something worth giving a chance on the rookie list. Watts had his confidence shattered so much that apparently it's been said that Roos had to constantly reassure him. Although i will say a lot of that 2012-2013 list was never going to be long term AFL talent, a lot of the 07-11 selections never really made it either
Click to expand...

I firmly believe that drafted to the right team Luke Tapscott could have been a good player. I will die on that hill.

People underestimate how important being drafted to the right team is in a players development.
 
RUNVS said:
Your last list build took 35 years.
Click to expand...
Eggsactly, us older footy fans saw the Tigers fall away after 1982. Took them till Hardwick to finally deliver again for their fans.

You had generation players like Dusty, Cotchin, Rievoldt etc.

Dont assume a rebuild will bring the same success again.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

W
    • Like
Hawthorn rebuild quickness
Replies
18
Views
611
timokane
T
L
Do Port need to enter a rebuild phase?
Replies
19
Views
454
Daka
Daka
L
Do Melbourne need to enter a rebuild phase?
Replies
21
Views
595
Mr.X
Mr.X
L
    • Like
Are North still in a rebuild phase?
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
Cunnington Cartel
Cunnington Cartel
W
WSYD GWS do they need to rebuild
Replies
15
Views
271
RPCB
RPCB
L
    • Haha
    • Like
Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?
182 183 184 185 186
Replies
5K
Views
88K
Mr Meow
M
daniel_4tw
  • Poll Poll
Time to bring in a challenge system
2
Replies
32
Views
649
Elixuh
Elixuh

Remove this Banner Ad

šŸ„° Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top Bottom