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And was averaging 46 at Shield level with 2 hundreds in his last 3 matches before being selected.
We need to have a talk about Nathan Lyon taking 500 test wickets
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eth-dog
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Not yet.
Offpsinners bowl quicker and the quicker ones tend to do better in India as it gives batsman less time to adjust and let’s the pitch do the work. Kumble bowled extremely quick for a leg spinner.
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
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On the surface it does seem extraordinary that at 39 he'd be in the test team still, but then again it is perfectly feasible he'd still be the best in the country at the craft.
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2027 is a ways off; Garry might still be going around then but I'd be surprised personally.
As you've bumped Lyon's thread, worth looking back on his 2023 CY (last batch of posts focus on his 2022 form):
38 wickets in 8 Tests vs India and England at less than 25 runs per wicket - on their decks - before he succumbed to the calf injury.
I reckon he was in close to career-best form this for the bulk of this year, some huge performances.
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Being a spinner, I don’t see why he couldn’t play til he was nearly 40 considering Jimmy is still playing as a front line quick for England. The only downside would be less opportunity for Murphy as I feel he is a special talent too.
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This is the balancing act in a nutshell.
I think it is possible Lyon could play until he's 40, personally though I suspect he might just fall short of that Ashes series - happy for him to prove me wrong though as I have learned to genuinely love watching him bowl.
The paunch, the recent calf injury ... I dunno .. we'll see just how physically robust he is in over the next 12 months for starters.
If murphy is real deal he will keep putting pressure on lyon and play as second spinner when the pitch is right i think thats a positive for lyon and murphy, look at our current race for warners(and soon ussie) replacements whoever gets it will be a test failure getting a very lucky third chance so competition and actually having to serve a decent apprenticeship before being handed a long term test berth is a good thing.
eth-dog
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Bancroft looks almost certain to replace Warner
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I'm not sure I particularly see Murphy as a special talent just yet. Doesn't get much turn and I don't see a whole lot of variation. I do like his temperament though, is ok being hit in order to take a wicket which is really good from a young spinner.
But then again I'm the OP of this thread so what do I know about spinners.
But then again I'm the OP of this thread so what do I know about spinners.
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Young spinner having a struggle isn't anything to worry about just yet. He had a great tour of India after all.
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Didn't say he struggled, just said I didn't see the special talent being described
Now confirmed. A pretty frustrating signing from an English perspective given Lancashire have a couple of talented young spinners who will now be getting very little FC game time.
Agree on both points, temperament and talent. He bowled very well in India and was used in a strange way in England (so were all our bowlers TBH).
My concern with Murphy is what he can do on our unhelpful pitches where we play half our Tests (don't have that concern with away Tests). Lyon is brilliant on our pitches by off spinner standards.
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That's a fair assessment.
He bowls tight, no doubt about that.
Applies himself with the bat too which is always good to see in a tail ender.
Doesn't naturally rip it though, as you've noted.
That needn't necessarily matter though.
Tanveer Sangha is still the Lyon heir for me. Just needs to settle at shield level.
In his last 3 shield games he's taken 4 wickets at 74.
Decent shield spinner but won't ever break it at international level imo.
Stylistically, Todd Murphy is a classic sidespinner. Basically Graeme Swann with a little bit of Nathan Hauritz thrown in.
He doesn't turn the ball as much as Swann, though he gets decent purchase on turners - even at The Oval, he got the odd delivery to rip sharply. He also gets a good amount of drift, although IMO not as much as Hauritz.
Like those two, he's good at holding up an end and he uses the crease pretty cleverly. He's happy to tie down right-handers by going around the wicket.
He doesn't seem to generate much overspin though, and like Swann, his trajectory is quite flat, so he's not that likely to beat batsmen in the air. His arm ball isn't as well disguised as Swann's, either.
At this stage, in Australia he'll basically be an upgraded Hauritz. Since Australia rarely produces turners, he'll basically be a holding bowler who will grab the odd wicket when batsmen target him.
However, given his age, IMO the sky's the limit. Definitely more likely than Swepson. Hopefully he doesn't go around the wicket as a safety blanket the way Lyon did earlier in his career.
EDIT: It's hard to assess his batting. He definitely has a better technique than Lyon, but he seems like a #9 at this stage. He doesn't seem likely to contribute much on challenging decks.
He doesn't turn the ball as much as Swann, though he gets decent purchase on turners - even at The Oval, he got the odd delivery to rip sharply. He also gets a good amount of drift, although IMO not as much as Hauritz.
Like those two, he's good at holding up an end and he uses the crease pretty cleverly. He's happy to tie down right-handers by going around the wicket.
He doesn't seem to generate much overspin though, and like Swann, his trajectory is quite flat, so he's not that likely to beat batsmen in the air. His arm ball isn't as well disguised as Swann's, either.
At this stage, in Australia he'll basically be an upgraded Hauritz. Since Australia rarely produces turners, he'll basically be a holding bowler who will grab the odd wicket when batsmen target him.
However, given his age, IMO the sky's the limit. Definitely more likely than Swepson. Hopefully he doesn't go around the wicket as a safety blanket the way Lyon did earlier in his career.
EDIT: It's hard to assess his batting. He definitely has a better technique than Lyon, but he seems like a #9 at this stage. He doesn't seem likely to contribute much on challenging decks.
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His trajectory is certainly flatter and his pace is higher, often in the mid to high 90s while Lyon is low 90s/high 80s. Hard to really get much spin or purchase in a deck when you're darting them more than anything.
Jadeja is very good at bowling at that pace but he manages to get some turn/bounce and does change his pace too. Though there's a reason he doesn't play much outside of India, I think that style works there on their bunsons but everywhere else it's difficult.
Iirc I remember seeing a quote from Murphys dad about his batting, saying his ideal position in the lineup would be no.7. I think there's something for work with in that if that's anything to go by.
Not just the glasses I swear, but I see a fair bit of Vettori in him.
Art Vandelay_
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