Europe War in Ukraine

[Saint]

The aircraft theft will give them short reprieve. In the end they'll have to pay for that, or they'll be further in the S&^t as far as access to technology in the future goes.

That, plus the brain drain, the RF will be like a 1960's retro economy for decades to come.

The Ukraine civilian butchery alone will take decades before trust & trade return.

Another reason that Oligarch ill gotten gains & FR ForEx should be confiscated to pay for the reparations.

Greedy people will be back in Russia earlier. Greed outweighs decency. People like Trump (and there are thousands of business people like him) will be back tickling Putin's balls for a pat on the head. There'll be a price to pay, though.

The Russian economy is certainly showing its true colours. Even the soldiers are looting and driving back to Belarus with stolen goods and sending them home.

I was joking very early in this thread that I assume high-school economics in Russia is probably just teaching people how to steal. Now I think it might be true. In every level of society, it's every-man-for-themselves thievery.

 

[Zidane98]

The aircraft theft will give them short reprieve. In the end they'll have to pay for that, or they'll be further in the S&^t as far as access to technology in the future goes.

That, plus the brain drain, the RF will be like a 1960's retro economy for decades to come.

The Ukraine civilian butchery alone will take decades before trust & trade return.

Another reason that Oligarch ill gotten gains & FR ForEx should be confiscated to pay for the reparations.

Yes, I am in agreeance that Russian oligarch assets should be seized and used towards rebuilding of Ukraine.


Russia should not be involved in any rebuilding of Ukraine at all. Should be run by Ukraine in conjunction with EU funding.


I don't know what Putin expects is going to happen with his airlines after the outright theft of leased aircraft organised by him. Russia is the most reliant nation in the world on air travel. Their airlines simply do not have the capital to purchase enough aircraft to satisfy demand for air travel and will need to rely on leases in future. As long as Putin is still in charge I don't see any leasing company going anywhere near a Russian airline.

 

[Saint]

Yes, I am in agreeance that Russian oligarch assets should be seized and used towards rebuilding of Ukraine.


Russia should not be involved in any rebuilding of Ukraine at all. Should be run by Ukraine in conjunction with EU funding.


I don't know what Putin expects is going to happen with his airlines after the outright theft of leased aircraft organised by him. Russia is the most reliant nation in the world on air travel. Their airlines simply do not have the capital to purchase enough aircraft to satisfy demand for air travel and will need to rely on leases in future. As long as Putin is still in charge I don't see any leasing company going anywhere near a Russian airline.

 

[Mobbs]

Spotted this today, can't vouch for veracity yet.

"Basketball players of the Serbian "Crvena Zvezda" in the Euroleague match against "Zalgiris" refused to support the action against the war and were booed by Lithuanian fans."


A reddit (yeah I know) post also referenced this event with differing video angles and commented 'Serbian basketball team didn't hold the "Stop war" poster and got booed in Kaunas, Lithuania. Also, multiple chants "**** you Serbia" during the game.'

 

[Chief]

I'm hoping like hell that these war crime stories are staged in order to paint Russia in a worse light because this is not good for my mental health.. crazy that stuff like this is still being reported in 2022. Seems like we'll never learn and stuff like this will still happen in 3022.

Putin blew up apartment buildings in Russia to foment a war and get himself more power.

He is not and has never been anything than a psycho dictator. This is not his first war to take territory he thinks belongs to Russia. Only this time the west gives a REAL shit and the world economy is so integrated it is not hard to cut him off.

 

[King Elvis]

This is an interesting map and goes to show that countries imposing sanctions against Russia for their invasion of Ukraine are a relatively small % of the world's nations.

Goes to show that our reliance on western media can give a skewed perspective of international sentiment on global matters.


View attachment 1363204

What percentage of the world's GDP do those countries produce?

And my friends back in Poland will be shocked to find out they're not sanctioning Russia.

Goes to show that our reliance on western media can give a skewed perspective of international sentiment on global matters.

Goes to show that more than a cursory glance would be useful before posting something.

 

[King Elvis]

Too late:

NYT can't independently verify?

Do they not have anyone on the ground in the area?

 

[bourbons]

You're predicting the future( maybe).
Putin and his generals have complete confidence in the plan.

Seems like they had complete confidence in the 3 day victory plan too - victory declaration written, Russian soldiers in Ukraine with dress uniforms for a parade through Kviv etc.

A comprehensive victory in Donbas and the east is more likely, although unsure how much of it will be left standing to celebrate capturing though. But a lot of water to go under the bridge, you're certainly more confident about Russian operations on exposed form than I am.

 

[T2B_]

Russia says it was provoked in Bucha, wants UN hearing​

Russia has requested that the United Nations Security Council convene on Monday to discuss what it called a "provocation by Ukrainian radicals" in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

Russia asks UN Security Council to discuss Bucha 'provocation'

Russia is requesting that the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a "provocation by Ukrainian radicals" in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

www.abc.net.au

So let me get this straight, Russia invades a place and then thinks no one should put up a fight against their occupation? What the **** are they smoking.

 

[TedDougChris]

F-that. Take their money, take their property, take their freedom. Lock up the borders around Russia until Ukraine is restored to its previous state.

I wonder if it would be possible to identify as many Russian military people as possible - via Facebook, Instagram, Military Websites etc - and effectively ban all their passports - so none of them can ever travel again.

 

[Mobbs]

Russia asks UN Security Council to discuss Bucha 'provocation'

Russia is requesting that the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a "provocation by Ukrainian radicals" in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

www.abc.net.au

So let me get this straight, Russia invades a place and then thinks no one should put up a fight against their occupation? What the **** are they smoking.

Wtf they were still saying "we didn't do it" only a few hours ago ... now they're saying "yeah we did do it but here's why ..."?

 

[Schneebly11]

More Putin propaganda

 

[T2B_]

Wtf they were still saying "we didn't do it" only a few hours ago ... now they're saying "yeah we did do it but here's why ..."?

Further reading, I think Russia is also trying to claim by "provocation" they mean (of course) that it was done by Ukrainians to make them look bad.

Despite the fact that residents, the ones who are not shocked into being speechless anyway, say it was the Russians.

 

[Mobbs]

Bucha is also a graveyard for abandoned military vehicles. Both posts are of Volkzalnaya St.

 

[King Elvis]

Mar 30: Ru troops leave Bucha Mar 31: Mayor of Bucha announces town 'liberated', makes no mention of atrocities. https://ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3445989-bucha-liberated-from-russian-invaders-mayor.html… Apr 1/2: Azov Nazis enter Bucha https://nytimes.com/live/2022/04/03/world/ukraine-russia-war#scenes-of-desperation-and-death-as-the-russians-retreat-from-suburbs-outside-kyiv… Apr 3: Ukr MinDef publishes video of 'Russian' atrocities https://nytimes.com/live/2022/04/03/world/ukraine-russia-war#ukraine-accuses-russian-forces-of-executing-civilians-in-the-town-of-bucha

Link to 'Azov Nazis entering Bucha' just takes you took a page listing running updates. I'm curious as to how Azov managed to escape Mauripol though?

Timeline is bullshit anyway.

31 - announces liberation.
1 - they probably start to come out of their shelters and start slowly exploring what is left of their city.
2 - reports of atrocities emerge.

Did you expect that as soon as the Russians left, the Ukrainians would come sprinting out of their places of refuge and immediately find everything that had occurred in the city?

 

[Frank Grimes]

Russia asks UN Security Council to discuss Bucha 'provocation'

Russia is requesting that the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a "provocation by Ukrainian radicals" in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

www.abc.net.au

So let me get this straight, Russia invades a place and then thinks no one should put up a fight against their occupation? What the **** are they smoking.

Even if they are "radicals" resisting, there are bodies with hands tied behind their back. This is evidence that they didn't die in a fight against the Russian soldiers, but were defenceless and executed.

 

[Chief]

Wtf they were still saying "we didn't do it" only a few hours ago ... now they're saying "yeah we did do it but here's why ..."?

Abusive partner "you made me get angry!"

 

[Mobbs]

Link to 'Azov Nazis entering Bucha' just takes you took a page listing running updates. I'm curious as to how Azov managed to escape Mauripol though?

Actually some Azov leaders were recently (under their own confirmation through their own media) confirmed to be up in Luhansk, not Mariupol. They released these announcements to show that Russian reports they had been captured were rubbish. Defoes unlikely to be in Kyiv though. Not required there because this was a departure not even generally under fire, and defence was needed in the Donbass.

 

[Zidane98]

Is there a single horrendous thing Russia has ever done where it has admitted liability? Whatever crime they commit the automatic response is "it's a provocation by the other side". Their claims are usually baseless and the only thing that supports them generally is Russian generated propaganda.


Still to this day in the MH17 courtcase legal representatives of the accused are still trying to use the argument that someone else was responsible for shooting the plane down despite overwhelming and conclusive evidence to the contrary.


Even the Iranians admitted to shooting down Ukraine Airlines plane in Iran after initially going down the Russian conspiracy theory path.


This automatic bullshitting response seems to be a remnant of the USSR era. Most famously was the "There's been a small accident at the Chernobyl NPP and actions are being taken for those affected".

 

[Chief]

This automatic bullshitting response seems to be a remnant of the USSR era.

There is no room for an alternative. Crush any idea that there could be. Standard practice.

 

[Mobbs]

Is there a single horrendous thing Russia has ever done where it has admitted liability? Whatever crime they commit the automatic response is "it's a provocation by the other side". Their claims are usually baseless and the only thing that supports them generally is Russian generated propaganda.

Case in point :

• Continuous reports of atrocities committed by Russians and every time denied or dismissed as "fakes".
• One incident with video of Ukrainian soldiers supposedly shooting prisoners in the legs and Ukraine states firmly "if this is true, it's unacceptable", announce an investigation, and remind their troops that war crimes are wrong - all publicly.

This automatic bullshitting response seems to be a remnant of the USSR era. Most famously was the "There's been a small accident at the Chernobyl NPP and actions are being taken for those affected".

Precisely. If it didn't have such serious consequences, it would just look totally childish.

 

[faible]

Russia asks UN Security Council to discuss Bucha 'provocation'

Russia is requesting that the UN Security Council meet to discuss what it calls a "provocation by Ukrainian radicals" in the town of Bucha after Kyiv accused Russian troops of killing civilians there.

www.abc.net.au

So let me get this straight, Russia invades a place and then thinks no one should put up a fight against their occupation? What the **** are they smoking.

I hate it when I break in to someone's house, tie them up, then they make me execute them.

 

[Saint]

Link to 'Azov Nazis entering Bucha' just takes you took a page listing running updates. I'm curious as to how Azov managed to escape Mauripol though?

Timeline is bullshit anyway.

31 - announces liberation.
1 - they probably start to come out of their shelters and start slowly exploring what is left of their city.
2 - reports of atrocities emerge.

Did you expect that as soon as the Russians left, the Ukrainians would come sprinting out of their places of refuge and immediately find everything that had occurred in the city?

I suspect if you left your hiding spot to see if the Russians had left your area yet you would risk having your hands bound and a bullet travel through your skull.

How soon will Hollywood have all the baddies in films revert back from Muslims/Koreans back to Russians? Rocky 12: Klitschko fury.

No Russian outside Russia will live this down for another generation. Just when popular culture had forgotten Rocky IV....

I for one will probably just assume any Russian company I deal with is crooked and will have to be avoided at all costs. Big companies simply can't afford to be caught up in sanctions.

 

[Festerz]

Goes to show that more than a cursory glance would be useful before posting something.

Or perhaps go to the source yourself to check the veracity rather than taking a cheap shot - it's there in the picture. 'Face the Nation' along with the CBS logo.

Map was produced for an interview with former National Security Council director for European and Russian Affairs, Fiona Hill, in a discussion last night on the highly credible CBS Face the Nation.

By all means discuss the veracity of the claims and accuracy/caveats of the map that was posted. Taking a cheap personal shot like you did in your response just makes you look like a dick.

Edit: Found a link to the discussion to give it context.

 

[Mobbs]

Belgorod authorities reported an attack by Ukrainian helicopters on an oil depot.
Ukraine says it is not responsible "for catastrophes" in Russia

Article is a couple of days old now.

Article from Meduza news source, who the Russian state force to add a disclaimer to all articles basically saying "Btw the Russian government thinks we're campaigners."

Власти Белгорода сообщили об атаке украинских вертолетов на нефтебазу. Украина говорит, что не несет ответственности «за катастрофы» в России

1 апреля власти Белгородской области сообщили о серьезном пожаре на нефтебазе в результате «авиаудара с двух вертолетов ...

mediazona.online

****tonne traceback links and a couple of images are included with the source article ^ but not in my copy-paste v.

On April 1, authorities in the Belgorod region reported a serious fire at an oil depot as a result of an “air strike from two helicopters of the armed forces of Ukraine,” and local entrepreneurs told state news agencies about the shelling of the printing house building and a shell hitting the nursery. The Russian authorities believe that what happened cannot be "taken as creating conditions comfortable for the continuation of negotiations." The Ukrainian military claims that they are not responsible for “miscalculations and catastrophes” on Russian territory.

Early in the morning on April 1, the governor of the Belgorod region, Vyacheslav Gladkov , reported a fire at an oil depot in the capital of the region. Half an hour later, he clarified that two people were injured, and an hour later he wrote : “The fire at the oil depot occurred as a result of an air strike from two helicopters of the Ukrainian armed forces, which entered Russian territory at a low altitude.”

Almost at the same time, Russian state-owned publications began to distribute video from CCTV cameras.

On one - it was presented by RIA Novosti as "a video, which, presumably, shows the moment of explosions at an oil depot in Belgorod" - several flashes and a glow are visible.

In another video, two helicopters are flying almost over the power lines. RIA Novosti writes that these are "Mi-24 Ukrainian troops over the villages of Maisky and Repnoye at low altitude after the oil depot in Belgorod was attacked." The silhouettes really resemble this model, but, for example, Ukrainian military expert Oleg Zhdanov does not believe that this is a Mi-24 - he says that the models in the video do not have a tail boom with a tail rotor, and the tail itself is short, like Russian ones K-50 and K-52, which were not in service with Ukraine.

The third shows both helicopters and explosions from a different angle - for example, it was published by Lifenews. In addition to them, there are many more videos directly of smoke from the fire and the evacuation of residents of the surrounding areas to the Belgorod Arena - their subscribers sent them to the local media.

The fire at the oil depot is not the only incident in Belgorod today. Konstanta Printing House Director Konstantin Lakhnov told about the shelling of his enterprise in the village of Severny, which occurred at 5:30. He posted a photo of the aftermath. In the afternoon, an unnamed representative of the Techsapphire company, based in the same village, told RIA Novosti that their hull was pierced and the windows were damaged. And the popular in the city public "Avto Belgorod" published a photograph of the wreckage of a rocket that allegedly fell in Severny.

Two hours later, a TASS source reported that a projectile fired from Ukraine fell in the village of Nikolskoye on the territory of a fruit nursery. Baza , “Before everyone else. Well, almost” , “Operational reports” and other telegram channels published the same photo, which shows a trace of the work of air defense. Later, RIA Novosti, citing the "Belgorod authorities," reported that "there is no official confirmation of the hit in Nikolskoye."

“What it was - we don’t know, there was a bang, and that’s it. Whether it was a shell or something else, we don’t know, ” the Belgorod authorities quoted the agency as saying. They were also supported by the popular telegram channel Belgorod No. 1: “At the same time, we do not have photos, videos or other information about any consequences of what made loud sounds and left traces over the city. It can be assumed that this is everyday work as part of a special operation. However, later the same publication published a video from the car's DVR with the wrong date - on it a shell falls next to the road.

According to state agencies, Dmitry Peskov said at a briefing that Putin had information "on Belgorod." “Answering the question of journalists whether what happened near Belgorod is an escalation of the conflict, Peskov said: “Of course, this is not something that can be perceived as creating conditions comfortable for continuing negotiations,” Interfax wrote.

Peskov's words have already been commented on by Mikhail Podolyak, adviser to the head of the office of the President of Ukraine. “We are not talking with a country that fundamentally adheres to moral aspects. We are talking with the Russian Federation and they can revise what was agreed upon at any time, ” he responded .

On the evening of April 1, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov commented on reports of an attack on an oil depot: according to him, Ukrainian helicopters "launched a missile attack on a civilian oil storage facility located on the outskirts of Belgorod." He stressed that "the tank farm has nothing to do with the Russian armed forces."

The speaker of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Alexander Motuzyanyk, in response to the news about the fire, said that Ukraine is not responsible "for miscalculations and disasters" on Russian territory. “This is not the first time we have seen such accusations. Therefore, I will neither confirm this information nor deny it, ”he said.

Reports of explosions and shelling by the Ukrainian military in the border Russian territories do not appear for the first time.

On February 25, Baza was the first to report a shell hitting a military airfield in Millerovo, which caused a fire. War correspondent Semyon Tegov claimed that Ukrainian forces fired a Tochka-U missile at her. As in the case of Belgorod, approximately the same set of telegram channels — for example, Operational Review and VChK-OGPU — published photos and videos of the fire. Baza wrote that three people were killed and 16 people were injured as a result of the missile strike, but neither the Russian nor the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense commented on the incident.

On March 1, explosions were heard near the Taganrog airfield, regional media sources in the Russian Ministry of Defense said that the air defense system had destroyed another Tochka-U missile launched from Ukraine. This news was also officially ignored.

On March 5, Operational Review wrote about the explosion in the Novaya Zhizn microdistrict in Belgorod: “An air defense system went off, which shot down a missile, it was also possible it was a drone.” The next day, Governor Gladkov wrote that it was “clap, flash”, and “no shelling”, and the widespread “fake information” was not true.

Finally, on March 23, Gladkov himself reported a “shot” in the villages of Zhuravlevka and Nekhoteevka, as a result, a residential building was destroyed, one woman received a gunshot wound. At first, Gladkov wrote that the shot “was from Ukraine,” but the next day he clarified : there were several explosions, and the investigating authorities should establish their causes. The Russian and Ukrainian military did not react to this either.