Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[barreness]

Almost like you believe it's never Russia's fault.

Of course it's Russia's, or in this case the USSR's, fault.

I forget when fault has mattered in geopolitics? maybe now, if you keep posting hard enough

 

[barreness]

Cant quite put my finger on what the patten is with Russian when it signs a treaty with neighbours to not invade them...

Sorry, second point

Why are you so against a peace deal? even if it does blow up later surely a short bit of peace is better than none

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Sorry, second point

Why are you so against a peace deal? even if it does blow up later surely a short bit of peace is better than none

Define "blow up"

 

[barreness]

Yeh good vid. Can only see tactical nukes being used on NATO troop concentrations, obvs strategic use is death

Putin chat against recent talk by Macron and whoever is in charge of the UK

 

[barreness]

Define "blow up"

Man you lot are so deeply propagandised

Most likely Russian starts the war again, a low possibilty that Ukraine could also seek to reclaim territory if they see weakness.

Of course ceasefires are always dicey and it could be something dumb that develops

 

[Visions]

Cant quite put my finger on what the patten is with Russian when it signs a treaty with neighbours to not invade them...

At the same time the Russian Red Army was fighting a war with the Poles who in turn destroyed them.

Seems to be a pattern with Russia wanting to be in constant wars throughout history.

 

[Visions]

Sorry, second point

Why are you so against a peace deal? even if it does blow up later surely a short bit of peace is better than none

So kill them later instead of now? Genius idea.

 

[Visions]

Russia continues their unlucky streak. Another oil refinery on fire overnight, this time in Volgograd after a drone was smashed out of the sky by air defence and "debris" fell and torched the place.

Also the historical city of Belgorod attacked again by the Russians this time taking out an apartment building, seemingly with a guide bomb.

 

[Zidane98]

Sorry, second point

Why are you so against a peace deal? even if it does blow up later surely a short bit of peace is better than none

I am very much for a peace deal tovarisch.

That's why Ukraine disarmed itself and signed the Budapest agreement. Ukraine already has a peace agreement with Russia.

 

[Zidane98]

Russia continues their unlucky streak. Another oil refinery on fire overnight, this time in Volgograd after a drone was smashed out of the sky by air defence and "debris" fell and torched the place.

Also the historical city of Belgorod attacked again by the Russians this time taking out an apartment building, seemingly with a guide bomb.

About time for some independent elections run by Ukraine in the Independent People's Republic of Belgorod. Suspect the majority would want a return to the original rightful owner of the oblast, Ukraine.

 

[Zidane98]

Everyone knows Russia's nuclear threats are hollow rhetoric. They've made something like well over a 100 direct or implied nuke threats over the last 10 years.


It will never happen because

a) Belarus & SW Russia are a good chance of suffering from nuclear fallout

and

b) it achieves nothing but make Russia completely isolated internationally.



It must also be pointed out that the only reason Russia are even able to launch an invasion is because Ukraine disarmed itself and handed over most of its advanced military hardware to Russia in exchange for Russia guaranteeing its sovereignty and/or not attacking Ukraine / defending Ukraine when it was attacked part of which involves responding to any nuclear attacks on Ukraine.

 

[jatz14]

Sorry, second point

Why are you so against a peace deal? even if it does blow up later surely a short bit of peace is better than none

A short bit of peace leading to a longer more damaging war is better how?

And on the off chance you don't really understand what I going on.

In the background, the people that don't tell the media what they are doing will, will be talking. The talks that lead to the official pre peace talks discussion.

And at the moment what is happening is that each side is putting up what it takes to get them to start negotiating. It will be along the lines of, we get a new Mercedes for everyone, your first born children and 100% of your GDP, and what we offer in return is a used turd.

Ukraine is holding out for when the war so damages Russias economy and prospects that they are forced to put forward an offer to entice Ukraine to the table.

Russia is holding out for when Western politicians with your mindset, essentially force Ukraine to take the turd.

Which Russia will see as a resounding success, and validation of their strategy of using force on their neighbours.

Which is why said neighbours are spending up to 2.5% of their GDP funding Ukraine.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[wannabejack]

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4443781-history-shows-that-no-ceasefire-or-treaty-with-russia-can-be-trusted/

Overall, the Russian Federation has a history of violating numerous ceasefires, international organizations’ agreements, and treaties. The pattern suggests that the Russian Federation has no regard for international norms and regulations and therefore no credibility in making agreements.

Ukraine therefore cannot afford to be forced into a ceasefire with Russia. History has shown that Russia has no regard for such agreements. One could even say they do not cater to Ukraine’s interests.

The only way to end the Russo-Ukraine war is with Russia’s defeat. As history shows, any other outcome will only lead to further death and destruction in Europe and Ukraine.

..

Russia Ukraine war: ICJ finds Moscow violated terrorism and anti-discrimination treaties

But judges decline to rule on allegations Russia funded fighters involved in downing Flight MH17.

www.bbc.com

Russia Ukraine war: ICJ finds Moscow violated terrorism and anti-discrimination treaties

..
Published July 29, 2014

Putin’s Treaty Problem: The Lessons of Russia’s INF Treaty Violations

www.csis.org

A formal letter to Putin from President Obama now confirms what Congress has been saying for years: that Russia has also been violating the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, which prohibits all ground-launched missiles with ranges from 500 to 5,500 kilometers. Reports of alleged Russian violations have long been filtering out in both the Russian and American press.

At a July 17 House Armed Services Committee hearing, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Steven Pifer suggested that Russia’s INF missile tests were part of a larger and “disturbing pattern of disregard for international agreements.”

 

[Zidane98]

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4443781-history-shows-that-no-ceasefire-or-treaty-with-russia-can-be-trusted/

Overall, the Russian Federation has a history of violating numerous ceasefires, international organizations’ agreements, and treaties. The pattern suggests that the Russian Federation has no regard for international norms and regulations and therefore no credibility in making agreements.

Ukraine therefore cannot afford to be forced into a ceasefire with Russia. History has shown that Russia has no regard for such agreements. One could even say they do not cater to Ukraine’s interests.

The only way to end the Russo-Ukraine war is with Russia’s defeat. As history shows, any other outcome will only lead to further death and destruction in Europe and Ukraine.

..

Russia Ukraine war: ICJ finds Moscow violated terrorism and anti-discrimination treaties

But judges decline to rule on allegations Russia funded fighters involved in downing Flight MH17.

www.bbc.com

Russia Ukraine war: ICJ finds Moscow violated terrorism and anti-discrimination treaties

..
Published July 29, 2014

Putin’s Treaty Problem: The Lessons of Russia’s INF Treaty Violations

www.csis.org

A formal letter to Putin from President Obama now confirms what Congress has been saying for years: that Russia has also been violating the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, which prohibits all ground-launched missiles with ranges from 500 to 5,500 kilometers. Reports of alleged Russian violations have long been filtering out in both the Russian and American press.

At a July 17 House Armed Services Committee hearing, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Steven Pifer suggested that Russia’s INF missile tests were part of a larger and “disturbing pattern of disregard for international agreements.”

Russian state sponsored media is already putting out there that the rightful governor of Kharkiv is Russian thugs from Belgorod

 

[Cap]

Sorry, second point

Why are you so against a peace deal? even if it does blow up later surely a short bit of peace is better than none

I reckon that question has been answered a few times.

How many times does Russia have to show how meaningless they are for you to accept it

 

[Visions]

ha ha. The lying sack of shit that is the Russian defence ministry trying to cover up their own incompetence by stating that they shot down a Ukrainian Tochka missile and the debris caused the huge hole in the apartment building.

Ukraine had a limited amount of these missiles which they used early in the war and they wouldn't have waited 2 years to fire one and waste it on a city centre like Belgorod when they could target a military airfield. It was a Russian bomb plain and simple.

Also love the OHS from the backwards nation. Put up some tape, but let every man and his dog into the area while the roof collapses.

 

[Visions]

Talking about the ministry of defence, the war is going so well that Shoigu has been canned.



The terrorists in the Kharkiv area doing the only thing that they know how to do, cause civilian deaths. But hey lets not allow donated weapons and ammo to be used on military targets inside Russia because, you know, escalation.....

 

[wannabejack]

I reckon that question has been answered a few times.

How many times does Russia have to show how meaningless they are for you to accept it

We know what he means.

 

[Mobbs]

ha ha. The lying sack of s**t that is the Russian defence ministry trying to cover up their own incompetence by stating that they shot down a Ukrainian Tochka missile and the debris caused the huge hole in the apartment building.

Ukraine had a limited amount of these missiles which they used early in the war and they wouldn't have waited 2 years to fire one and waste it on a city centre like Belgorod when they could target a military airfield. It was a Russian bomb plain and simple.

Also love the OHS from the backwards nation. Put up some tape, but let every man and his dog into the area while the roof collapses.

I reckon defoes false flag.

 

[Aussie in exile]

As opposed to all those legal invasions right

Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland, Afghanistan spring to mind.

 

[Baldur]

Vladimir Putin removes Sergei Shoigu from Russian defence ministry

Sergei Shoigu, a close ally of the president, will be replaced by Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Belousov.

www.bbc.com

 

[Visions]

Kharkiv city on the verge of becoming the new Grozny while the US and Europe dither.

 

[barreness]

Everyone knows Russia's nuclear threats are hollow rhetoric. They've made something like well over a 100 direct or implied nuke threats over the last 10 years.

And NATO hasn't committed troops, you want to test that?

It will never happen because

a) Belarus & SW Russia are a good chance of suffering from nuclear fallout

and

b) it achieves nothing but make Russia completely isolated internationally.

Fallout from a tactical nuke airburst is negligible, a lot less that Chernobyl for instance

It must also be pointed out that the only reason Russia are even able to launch an invasion is because Ukraine disarmed itself and handed over most of its advanced military hardware to Russia in exchange for Russia guaranteeing its sovereignty and/or not attacking Ukraine / defending Ukraine when it was attacked part of which involves responding to any nuclear attacks on Ukraine.

They were soviet nukes and Ukraine as a republic didn't have the launch codes. The deal to return the nukes to Russia was done by all sides including UK/France, no one wanted a collapsed Ukraine controlled by who knows with the ability of at least dirty bombs

It was presumed that Ukraine would remain in the Russian sphere of influence, this changed in 2004 and has developed ever since

 

[barreness]

A short bit of peace leading to a longer more damaging war is better how?

Why would it be more damaging than now?

And on the off chance you don't really understand what I going on.

In the background, the people that don't tell the media what they are doing will, will be talking. The talks that lead to the official pre peace talks discussion.

Oh wise mighty one with the inside goss

And at the moment what is happening is that each side is putting up what it takes to get them to start negotiating. It will be along the lines of, we get a new Mercedes for everyone, your first born children and 100% of your GDP, and what we offer in return is a used turd.

The peace talks in mid 2022 were reasonable, NATO reps flew in and said nah don't take it, we'll arm you to the teeth

Ukraine is holding out for when the war so damages Russias economy and prospects that they are forced to put forward an offer to entice Ukraine to the table.

That's going well

Russia is holding out for when Western politicians with your mindset, essentially force Ukraine to take the turd.

Which Russia will see as a resounding success, and validation of their strategy of using force on their neighbours.

Which is why said neighbours are spending up to 2.5% of their GDP funding Ukraine.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

So grind away, fair enough

 

[barreness]

Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland, Afghanistan spring to mind.

The soviet invasions? I mean I guess there might have been some internal rule. My point is that legality means nothing when a state invades another