Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[barreness]

I guess people say "illegal invasion" because, and you'll probably not believe this, but there are people that will try to argue this invasion was justified.

It's like the term "unprovoked shark attack"...no one's out there in the sea dunking on sharks, trash-talking their mothers, poking them and s**t to provoke them. Shark attack victims are unlucky to have found themselves in the vicinity of a single-minded violent predator (just like Ukraine), but guess we say "unprovoked shark attack" because of shark vatniks?

I've honestly never read unprovoked shark attack, strange analogy and doesn't really address anything

The invasion was provoked by Ukraine moving closer to the EU/NATO, that's the justification from a Russian view. Pretty rubbish but that's what it is, Putin decided they are Russian sphere of influence and will remain so, whether they like it or not

 

[barreness]

You are right we should be disgusted with MAGA republicans and what they achieved for Russia.

But Australia and Europe also failed to provide the aid needed in a timely manner and its especially bad that weapons given that could have helped were restricted to stolen Ukrainian land.

Now Europe has woken up and the MAGA republicans have been side stepped, let's hope 2025 brings the defeat of Russia and the downfall of the genocidal maniac Putin.

Ukraine front lines are collapsing, internal assassination attempts against Zelensky. They'll be lucky to last the year

 

[barreness]

Sharks aren't too fond of vatniks




Surprised Putin didn't say this was a shark trained to kill Russians in a NATO biolab tbh.

Classy as usual

 

[barreness]

Ukraine was an independent republic prior to the USSR tovarisch.

Not really, not resembling its current form at least

If someone said Russia has only been around as a state since 1991 what would you say?

Yes, the Russian federation was a state created in 1991, the child of a dismantled Russian soviet republic

 

[barreness]

It's certainly better than nothing which would be massacres like in Maruipol all across Ukraine if no assistance was provided.


Putin honestly believes he is entitled to Ukraine and anyone who dares disagree with him in Ukraine is effectively the enemy and he is happy to eliminate them civilian or not.

To actually defeat Russia on the battlefield who has committed something like 500k+ troops to the war currently would take a multinational coalition army from nations most threatened by Putin's fascism.

As I have said before this war won't be won on the battlefield for Ukraine, it will be won when the price for Putin to maintain his idelogical invasion is simply far too great even for a dictator with as much power as him.

I agree, and that seems unlikely because of escalation risk. So grind Ukraine to complete collapse, sweet

 

[Mobbs]

Ukraine front lines are collapsing

Probably you are referencing the conceded territory in Avdiivka > Ocherytne & Bakhmut > Chasov Yar. RF gained approx the same amount of territory than they lost during Ukraine's "failed" counter-offensive. They've now ground to a halt again after some territorial advance via Avdiivka. We watch closely to see what happens next.

Kharkiv/Sumy is a larger threat, tho it hasn't yet been commenced. Many troops are gathered there.

internal assassination attempts against Zelensky

Which we expected from sleeper agents when the warrant went out, but were thwarted. RF tried the same thing they tried with Georgia. Didn't work this time.

RF weight of numbers is looking more and more like all they've got.

 

[barreness]

Which we expected from sleeper agents when the warrant went out, but were thwarted. RF tried the same thing they tried with Georgia. Didn't work this time.

RF weight of numbers is looking more and more like all they've got.

It appears this is the main thing in this style of warfare

Yes no doubt there are some sympathetic to Russia within the Ukrainian bureaucracy, I think this will increase as Zelensky's official term comes to an end and the losses on the front continue

 

[jatz14]

It appears this is the main thing in this style of warfare

Yes no doubt there are some sympathetic to Russia within the Ukrainian bureaucracy, I think this will increase as Zelensky's official term comes to an end and the losses on the front continue

I think you will find that living in cities under bombardment, having infrastructure like electricity deliberately targeted, will have made many Ukrainians previously sympathetic to Russia notably less sympathetic.

England had quite the pro Nazi movement prior to WW2 starting.

Strangely, they kept their mouths shut once the fighting started. Had Churchill resigned, I am quite confident their mouths would have remained closed.

So, considering the likelihood a pro Russian beaurocrat espousing a pro Russian stance or pro Russian policies, is likely to end up as head of the department for monitoring dog turds, I don't think this increases at all.

And if it did, a few prison terms for treason will nip it in the bud pretty quick.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mobbs]

Yes no doubt there are some sympathetic to Russia within the Ukrainian bureaucracy, I think this will increase as Zelensky's official term comes to an end and the losses on the front continue

Probably, sure.

Yes no doubt there are some sympathetic to Russia within the Ukrainian bureaucracy, I think this will increase as Zelensky's official term comes to an end and the losses on the front continue

What are you referring to? The assassination plot on Zelensky has nothing to do with Ukrainian bureacracy. It's RF sleeper cells.

 

[Mobbs]

Insane number of hits on Russian oil refineries and depots on May 9. Krasnodar oblast, Kaluga, and even a location in Bashkortostan which is a massive distance away. Lots of damage to these facilities. According to RF reports, the damage has all come from debris falling on the plants after the drones being shot down. With this level of accuracy from the debris, I am glad the drones are being shot down - they might struggle to be this spot on if left to follow their own routes.

 

[Cap]

Ukraine front lines are collapsing, internal assassination attempts against Zelensky. They'll be lucky to last the year

Lol.

 

[Chief]

The invasion was provoked by Ukraine moving closer to the EU/NATO

Which was provoked by... ?

 

[Mobbs]

Which was provoked by... ?

I was halfway through replying to this myself but then realised barreness did make it clear it was what Russia's rhetoric is, not their own claim.

 

[Zidane98]

Which was provoked by... ?

Those secret biolabs in Ukraine breeding birds that are programmed to attack Russians.

 

[Chief]

Ukraine front lines are collapsing, internal assassination attempts against Zelensky. They'll be lucky to last the year

What else is the friendly Russian man on Telegram telling you?

 

[Smeg Head]

What else is the friendly Russian man on Telegram telling you?

Maybe if Ukraine survives the year unlike the view of many of the pro kremlin posters, you can lead a great purge on Jan 1 and perma them all in celebration. Its what any true fan of russian history would want.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Not really, not resembling its current form at least
View attachment 1985056

Yes, the Russian federation was a state created in 1991, the child of a dismantled Russian soviet republic

you do know what happened in the 1940's right?

Ukraine wasn't the only nation/state/republic to have vastly different borders by the end of that decade.

I wonder how Ukraine got a lot of the border region of Poland. Who forced Poland to do that......

 

[Zidane98]

Also Belgorod is historically Ukranian too.

 

[Jamolad]

Also Belgorod is historically Ukranian too.

Ah, makes sense now why the Russians keep bombing it

 

[Visions]

The term genocide was coined by Polish-Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin in the 1940s, who lobbied the United Nations to recognise it as a crime in 1948.

The definition of genocide, according to the UN, is “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such”.
This encompasses not only mass murder but the destruction of their way of life, separating children from parents and raising them separately, and stopping new members of the group from being born.

Another attempt at genocide with the ethnic cleansing by the Russians in Mariupol.

Don't know, depends on the peace deal. Also allows Ukraine time to consolidate as they did post 2014

Chenchya sends its greeting on what happens with negotiated ceasefires with Russia. They will take any lull to rebuild and come again.

I've honestly never read unprovoked shark attack, strange analogy and doesn't really address anything

The invasion was provoked by Ukraine moving closer to the EU/NATO, that's the justification from a Russian view. Pretty rubbish but that's what it is, Putin decided they are Russian sphere of influence and will remain so, whether they like it or not

But Russia tells us the justification was the Nazis.......

Ukraine front lines are collapsing, internal assassination attempts against Zelensky. They'll be lucky to last the year

Really? Pray tell where? Have heard this many times in the last two years, its like a broken record. But hey, maybe this time its different. Give it your best shot.

Insane number of hits on Russian oil refineries and depots on May 9. Krasnodar oblast, Kaluga, and even a location in Bashkortostan which is a massive distance away. Lots of damage to these facilities. According to RF reports, the damage has all come from debris falling on the plants after the drones being shot down. With this level of accuracy from the debris, I am glad the drones are being shot down - they might struggle to be this spot on if left to follow their own routes.

I think I mentioned it before, Russia is the unluckiest country on earth being able to have a 100% strike rate against foreign drones and unmanned aircraft, yet it still causes untold damage......

Interesting that it seems in the Kaluga incident, they had ample warning yet couldn't take the drones down. Great defence!

 

[barreness]

Chenchya sends its greeting on what happens with negotiated ceasefires with Russia. They will take any lull to rebuild and come again.

I mean Chechnya was Islamic militants, also a false flag with the apartment bombings no doubt. Presume you're talking about the second war under Putin and not the first under Yeltsin which is a pretty different situation

But yeh they have long been a part of Russia and remain so. The actual war lasted like a year or two and not really a shot fired since 2009. Grozny was horrific

Really? Pray tell where? Have heard this many times in the last two years, its like a broken record. But hey, maybe this time its different. Give it your best shot.

Well I mean Mobbs went through more details in an earlier post but here's some links

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraine-losing-russia-war/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024...three-villages-in-east-as-russia-claims-gains


Odessa could be on the cards and would be a grave loss for Ukraine

 

[barreness]

Probably, sure.

What are you referring to? The assassination plot on Zelensky has nothing to do with Ukrainian bureacracy. It's RF sleeper cells.

Two colonels sacked from the state security department, the difference between a sleeper cell and a sympathetic Ukrainian is pretty small

 

[barreness]

you do know what happened in the 1940's right?

Ukraine wasn't the only nation/state/republic to have vastly different borders by the end of that decade.

I wonder how Ukraine got a lot of the border region of Poland. Who forced Poland to do that......

Well yes Poland didn't exist before the Russian collapse on the eastern front in WW1, the arguing historics of eastern Europe is kinda fruitless. The rise of nationalist movements post WW1 and 2 have created some interesting states. Would think it's undeniable that Russia has been the major power in that region in modern industrial times

 

[Mobbs]

Also Belgorod is historically Ukranian too.

 

[Mobbs]

Not really, not resembling its current form at least

Nah it really was. Prior the USSR, Ukraine was a republic is its own right.
Your map shows many true and weird waxes/wanes of the Ukraine over the years. Replace "given" with "conferred to" and it'd make more sense. These were generally all classically Ukrainian territories, based on the kingdoms which existed and the peoples which existed there. Kursk & Voronezh had also at one stage been "invited" to join the Ukrainian republic at one point. They obviously chose to not do so.
(Interesting note: Ukraine actually for some reason dropped out of the USSR for a couple of years later too, then 'went back in'. No idea why. Also there was a period where even the reds conferred some kind of odd independence upon the Ukraine SSR and again I don't know why they'd do that or if it meant anything - like a temporary bubble of demarcation oddness)

You are probably talking about the forcible control over Ukraine by Russia under Catherine the Great, including Crimea. This is true. Prior the independent Ukrainian body known as the People's Republic of Ukraine, between the late 1700s and the early 1900s, Russia generally controlled Ukraine as part of its empire. About 40- to 70- years after Muscovy rebranded as Russia. (or 40- to 70- years after Russia came into existence, depending on how you want to view it). So Ukraine was indeed a part of Russia dependent on semantics, for a bit over 100 years.

But Ukraine did become an independent republic in the period between the revolutions, give or take. This is fully documented.