Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[jatz14]

yet went through multiple rounds of peace talks in 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

If I go into your house and start a fight, then propose a deal whereby I will agree to stop fighting, if you give me your house.

Is it now your fault if the violence continues, because i offered a deal to end the violence, and you refused?



On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Zidane98]

If I go into your house and start a fight, then propose a deal whereby I will agree to stop fighting, if you give me your house.

Is it now your fault if the violence continues, because i offered a deal to end the violence, and you refused?



On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Vatnik logic is hard to argue against.

They even claim the forcible transfer of Ukranian kids is just really Russia protecting those kids from the conflict they themselves are waging on Ukraine..

 

[wannabejack]

yet went through multiple rounds of peace talks in 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

From the article.
In September 2022, Reuters reported that Putin's envoy on Ukraine Dmitry Kozak had struck a provisional deal that would satisfy Russia's demand for Ukraine to stay out of NATO, but the plan was rejected by Putin who preferred a full-scale military invasion.

 

[wannabejack]

Vatnik logic is hard to argue against.

They even claim the forcible transfer of Ukranian kids is just really Russia protecting those kids from the conflict they themselves are waging on Ukraine..

A bit like an abusive husband taking the children from the abused mother to get them away from an abusive relationship.

 

[Zidane98]

A bit like an abusive husband taking the children from the abused mother to get them away from an abusive relationship.

Spot on.

 

[wannabejack]

EU moves to give profits from Russian assets to Ukraine

EU ambassadors have agreed in principle to use the profits from frozen Russian assets to help Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

Ambassadors from EU member states have agreed in principle to seize windfall profits from frozen Russian assets to finance arms supplies to Kyiv.

If the decision is approved at a gathering of EU finance ministers next Tuesday, the interest - worth up to €3bn (£2.5bn) per year - will be used to buy weapons for Ukraine.

 

[Zidane98]

EU moves to give profits from Russian assets to Ukraine

EU ambassadors have agreed in principle to use the profits from frozen Russian assets to help Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

Ambassadors from EU member states have agreed in principle to seize windfall profits from frozen Russian assets to finance arms supplies to Kyiv.

If the decision is approved at a gathering of EU finance ministers next Tuesday, the interest - worth up to €3bn (£2.5bn) per year - will be used to buy weapons for Ukraine.

Might as well do something with the investment returns from Russian money..

 

[jatz14]

The logic of Ukraine's refinery strikes, and the American mistake in opposing it has been revealed.
Because refining has fallen below domestic demand, they have to export oil, not refined products. This is less valuable, and lowers the international price of oil, making them even less per barrel.

As well, they now have to import refined product, at considerable cost.

Russia gets less for its exports, has to pay to import, and international oil prices go down, not up.

Win win all around, except for Russia.

 

[barreness]

Don't forget that it was Russia who illegally invaded Ukraine.

As opposed to all those legal invasions right

 

[barreness]

Would it stop the death long term or be used by Putin to consolidate before attacking again at a later date?

Don't know, depends on the peace deal. Also allows Ukraine time to consolidate as they did post 2014

 

[Mobbs]

The logic of Ukraine's refinery strikes, and the American mistake in opposing it has been revealed.
Because refining has fallen below domestic demand, they have to export oil, not refined products. This is less valuable, and lowers the international price of oil, making them even less per barrel.

As well, they now have to import refined product, at considerable cost.

Russia gets less for its exports, has to pay to import, and international oil prices go down, not up.

Win win all around, except for Russia.

Denys Davydov refers to the attacks on Russian oil refineries as "sanctions".

 

[barreness]

If I go into your house and start a fight, then propose a deal whereby I will agree to stop fighting, if you give me your house.

Is it now your fault if the violence continues, because i offered a deal to end the violence, and you refused?



On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Individual analogies rarely work on a geopolitical level. If the alternative is you kill me and squat I'd consider it, especially if it meant you only got the front garden

 

[barreness]

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4486043-russia-kidnapping-campaign-ukraine-war/

Yeh fair. The article does jump from 19,000 to 750,000, with 500 returned. That is genocidal

yes, your biggest concern is the deaths make it into your news cycle and how to stop that.

Not actually stopping Russians killing people.

Because drip feeding Ukraine materiel is doing a great job. They functionally lost the war since the failed counter offensive in 2023, I can't see how they gain back lost ground.

My news feed is about the biosphere collapse and impending resource wars lol, depopulation is de rigueur

 

[Jamolad]

As opposed to all those legal invasions right

I guess people say "illegal invasion" because, and you'll probably not believe this, but there are people that will try to argue this invasion was justified.

It's like the term "unprovoked shark attack"...no one's out there in the sea dunking on sharks, trash-talking their mothers, poking them and shit to provoke them. Shark attack victims are unlucky to have found themselves in the vicinity of a single-minded violent predator (just like Ukraine), but guess we say "unprovoked shark attack" because of shark vatniks?

 

[Cap]

Yeh fair. The article does jump from 19,000 to 750,000, with 500 returned. That is genocidal

Because drip feeding Ukraine materiel is doing a great job. They functionally lost the war since the failed counter offensive in 2023, I can't see how they gain back lost ground.

My news feed is about the biosphere collapse and impending resource wars lol, depopulation is de rigueur

You are right we should be disgusted with MAGA republicans and what they achieved for Russia.

But Australia and Europe also failed to provide the aid needed in a timely manner and its especially bad that weapons given that could have helped were restricted to stolen Ukrainian land.

Now Europe has woken up and the MAGA republicans have been side stepped, let's hope 2025 brings the defeat of Russia and the downfall of the genocidal maniac Putin.

 

[Zidane98]

I guess people say "illegal invasion" because, and you'll probably not believe this, but there are people that will try to argue this invasion was justified.

It's like the term "unprovoked shark attack"...no one's out there in the sea dunking on sharks, trash-talking their mothers, poking them and s**t to provoke them. Shark attack victims are unlucky to have found themselves in the vicinity of a single-minded violent predator (just like Ukraine), but guess we say "unprovoked shark attack" because of shark vatniks?

Sharks aren't too fond of vatniks




Surprised Putin didn't say this was a shark trained to kill Russians in a NATO biolab tbh.

 

[wannabejack]

Sharks aren't too fond of vatniks




Surprised Putin didn't say this was a shark trained to kill Russians in a NATO biolab tbh.

22 Nov 2023
"Putin has falsely accused sharks of genocide against Russian speakers in the Hurghada region, Egypt."

Spoiler

Not true

 

[Zidane98]

Yeh fair. The article does jump from 19,000 to 750,000, with 500 returned. That is genocidal

Because drip feeding Ukraine materiel is doing a great job. They functionally lost the war since the failed counter offensive in 2023, I can't see how they gain back lost ground.

My news feed is about the biosphere collapse and impending resource wars lol, depopulation is de rigueur

It's certainly better than nothing which would be massacres like in Maruipol all across Ukraine if no assistance was provided.


Putin honestly believes he is entitled to Ukraine and anyone who dares disagree with him in Ukraine is effectively the enemy and he is happy to eliminate them civilian or not.

To actually defeat Russia on the battlefield who has committed something like 500k+ troops to the war currently would take a multinational coalition army from nations most threatened by Putin's fascism.

As I have said before this war won't be won on the battlefield for Ukraine, it will be won when the price for Putin to maintain his idelogical invasion is simply far too great even for a dictator with as much power as him.

 

[Zidane98]

Holy maps batman

I appreciate that it's a region that has long existed in historical record, but a centrally ruled state ya know. You could do similar for the Polish lithuiania commonwealth etc

Ukraine was an independent republic prior to the USSR tovarisch.


If someone said Russia has only been around as a state since 1991 what would you say?

 

[Cap]

As I have said before this war won't be won on the battlefield for Ukraine, it will be won when the price for Putin to maintain his idelogical invasion is simply far too great even for a dictator with as much power as him.

Absolutely.

It's going to be a hybrid loss to Putin

The West needs to let Ukraine have so front page wins though, we don't hear how the Russian black sea fleet is virtually non existent i doubt Russians will.

Help them blow the Kerch Bridge, help them get into Crimea, that can't be hidden.

 

[Zidane98]

Absolutely.

It's going to be a hybrid loss to Putin

The West needs to let Ukraine have so front page wins though, we don't hear how the Russian black sea fleet is virtually non existent i doubt Russians will.

Help them blow the Kerch Bridge, help them get into Crimea, that can't be hidden.

Yep, total annihilation of the Russian Black Sea fleet with the Kerch bridge destroyed should be the short term end game. Putin can't play that down and pretend all is normal.


To their credit the vatniks were able to muster up a single tank for their May day parade!

 

[Saint]

If Biden wins this next election and wins over Congress, I would expect the support for Ukraine to really ramp up.

 

[wannabejack]

Former AFU Commander-in-Chief Zaluzhny Appointed as Ambassador to Great Britain

President Zelensky issued separate decrees releasing Zaluzhny from military service and granting him the right to wear a military uniform.

www.kyivpost.com

In March, Andrii Sybiga, the deputy head of the Office of the President, revealed that the process of appointing Zaluzhny as Ukraine’s ambassador to the United Kingdom had commenced.

 

[MrKK]

If Biden wins this next election and wins over Congress, I would expect the support for Ukraine to really ramp up.

Or perhaps the US and their NATO allies are happy with the current situation, drip-feeding just enough support for Ukraine to hold firm without either side making any real progress.

This keeps their perpetual enemy Russia bogged down in a war with no immediate end in sight, their military industry backers are making bank and all of the death and destruction is contained within a country they don't really give a shit about.

 

[wannabejack]

EurActiv: Ukraine plans to use Russia's frozen assets to boost arms production - Euromaidan Press

Ukraine is exploring ways to bolster its domestic arms industry with support from the European Union, according to Ukrainian Minister of Strategic Industries Oleksandr Kamyshin.

euromaidanpress.com

Earlier, Kamyshin claimed that Ukraine resumed its own production of artillery ammunition, but given the vast needs of its Defense Forces and the scale and intensity of the war, the country still relies on ammunition supplies from partner countries.

“In terms of scale and cost, we‘re efficient and capable of producing enough—the only thing that is missing is funding,” the minister said on the sidelines of the EU-Ukraine Industry Forum in Brussels.

According to Kamyshin, Ukraine proposed to find additional sources of financing by using up to three billion euros in windfall profits from Russian frozen assets, which are known to be mostly kept on European accounts.