Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[The_Wookie]

90 million eh?

For how many years?

Well for the Commonwealth Games main stadium. It wasnt part of any other funding agreement.

The grand final extension was all about timing. The AFL needed money for the upgrade to Docklands and blind freddy could have seen that the VicGov would tie it to this. No one else was going to bid 20 years before they could host in the quantity that the AFL needed here.

 

[kranky al]

Well for the Commonwealth Games main stadium. It wasnt part of any other funding agreement.

The grand final extension was all about timing. The AFL needed money for the upgrade to Docklands and blind freddy could have seen that the VicGov would tie it to this. No one else was going to bid 20 years before they could host in the quantity that the AFL needed here.

See the wa government kicked in 1.6 billion with no gf.

The afl could have got all the states to upgrade with the promise of gfs.

But instead they got a tiny bit of money considering benefit of the gf - and the benefits flow mostly to Victorian fans.

VFL

 

[DQ 4EVER]

Eastern states bias imo
Even port power get the :rub of the green". Throws galore but nary a call

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The_Wookie]

See the wa government kicked in 1.6 billion with no gf.

The WA Government wouldnt have give the AFL a dollar this far in advance or for Marvel upgrades. They key phrase is "marvel upgrades".

The afl could have got all the states to upgrade with the promise of gfs.

Not 2 decades away they wouldnt.

But instead they got a tiny bit of money considering benefit of the gf - and the benefits flow mostly to Victorian fans.

They got what they needed for the aim that they had, plus more.

 

[kranky al]

The WA Government wouldnt have give the AFL a dollar this far in advance or for Marvel upgrades. They key phrase is "marvel upgrades".



Not 2 decades away they wouldnt.



They got what they needed for the aim that they had, plus more.

A supposedly NATIONAL comp, sold the rights in secret - with no tender - with all the benefits in the forms of stadium upgrades, going to fans in one city only

 

[The_Wookie]

A supposedly NATIONAL comp, sold the rights in secret - with no tender - with all the benefits in the forms of stadium upgrades, going to fans in one city only

theres nothing supposedly about it being a national comp. And The rights have never been tendered. And the benefits was largely to a stadium that benefited the league as a valuable asset. It was literally in the leagues interest to do so, even if it wasnt in the clubs.

 

[go_the_dockers]

theres nothing supposedly about it being a national comp. And The rights have never been tendered. And the benefits was largely to a stadium that benefited the league as a valuable asset. It was literally in the leagues interest to do so, even if it wasnt in the clubs.

How do you know if they did not let anyone bid for it?

The grand final is worth a lot more than 5 million a year. Sa paid 20 million for gather round, and the grand final easily trumps that.

 

[kranky al]

theres nothing supposedly about it being a national comp. And The rights have never been tendered. And the benefits was largely to a stadium that benefited the league as a valuable asset. It was literally in the leagues interest to do so, even if it wasnt in the clubs.

Well then call it the funking VFL

 

[Carringbush2010]

And where do you play away games against geelong? Carlton? Etc….

Geelong & Carlton away games are at the G for obvious reasons, same with Essendon (Marvel tenant).

Any other club that isn't a G tenant would be away games at Marvel, unless we play interstate like your club at Optus.

We also play home games against Marvel tenants at Marvel.

 

[Outtatym]

Well then call it the funking VFL

If they did that, would you feel better, or complain more ?

 

[SC_Power]

A supposedly NATIONAL comp, sold the rights in secret - with no tender - with all the benefits in the forms of stadium upgrades, going to fans in one city only

It’s where the money is.
Show the AFL more money, and watch what happens.

 

[SC_Power]

theres nothing supposedly about it being a national comp. And The rights have never been tendered. And the benefits was largely to a stadium that benefited the league as a valuable asset. It was literally in the leagues interest to do so, even if it wasnt in the clubs.

I’ve heard this line of reasoning before.., that the name change to the Australian Football League doesn’t mean that it’s meant to be National.
Just checking if that’s what you mean?

 

[kranky al]

I’ve heard this line of reasoning before.., that the name change to the Australian Football League doesn’t mean that it’s meant to be National.
Just checking if that’s what you mean?

Reckon he’s right.

 

[kranky al]

If they did that, would you feel better, or complain more ?

They won’t. But they should.

 

[kranky al]

Geelong & Carlton away games are at the G for obvious reasons, same with Essendon (Marvel tenant).

Any other club that isn't a G tenant would be away games at Marvel, unless we play interstate like your club at Optus.

We also play home games against Marvel tenants at Marvel.

So I guess the afl makes you play a few home games at etihad to even the ledger up a bit for the leg up of playing away games at home.

Was kinda the point…..

 

[Carringbush2010]

So I guess the afl makes you play a few home games at etihad to even the ledger up a bit

Probably for contractual reasons i:e the amount of Marvel games as we can't play every vic game at the G, coz there's the other tenants at the G.

So not sure what your point is?

 

[Underarm]

I’ve heard this line of reasoning before.., that the name change to the Australian Football League doesn’t mean that it’s meant to be National.
Just checking if that’s what you mean?

Was a national competition 10 years earlier.

 

[sr36]

Well then call it the funking VFL

Here's the advantages and AFL reasoning:

MCG GF as it's the biggest most iconic stadium in the game - this advantages the MCG tenants when they're good enough to make the GF.

Academy access - to grow the game - advantages the Northern clubs

Father Son - nostalgia and tradition - has historically advantaged the Vic clubs, but that advantage is gone except for GC and GWS

Home Games and travel - that's just the nature of a home and away season in a national comp with more teams in Vic - probably advantages the Vic teams - but not seen in ladder positions, probably because the non-vic clubs get a bigger home ground advantage than their disadvantage when playing in Vic.

Gather Round - money - advantages the SA teams with an extra home game every year.

Home finals - some Vic clubs are disadvantaged as they don't actually get home ground finals - non vic clubs are more advantaged as they virtually always have an advantage without many neutral games.

No advantages for WA teams.

Personally, I think that academy access is the biggest advantage and the Northern clubs are set for a really good period.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Here's the advantages and AFL reasoning:

MCG GF as it's the biggest most iconic stadium in the game - this advantages the MCG tenants when they're good enough to make the GF.

Academy access - to grow the game - advantages the Northern clubs

Father Son - nostalgia and tradition - has historically advantaged the Vic clubs, but that advantage is gone except for GC and GWS

Home Games and travel - that's just the nature of a home and away season in a national comp with more teams in Vic - probably advantages the Vic teams - but not seen in ladder positions, probably because the non-vic clubs get a bigger home ground advantage than their disadvantage when playing in Vic.

Gather Round - money - advantages the SA teams with an extra home game every year.

Home finals - some Vic clubs are disadvantaged as they don't actually get home ground finals - non vic clubs are more advantaged as they virtually always have an advantage without many neutral games.

No advantages for WA teams.

Personally, I think that academy access is the biggest advantage and the Northern clubs are set for a really good period.

Only you missed some advantages which is what the academies offset.

Even with the academies the NSW and QLD teams still have squads made up of mostly non home based players whilst vic clubs are 98% victorian. We all know what happens the second they are out of contract. It took 10 seconds after drafting Logan Mcdonald for Freo and WC to gawk their heads. Speaking for the swans - Our previous legitimate higher end picks - Jetta, dawson, Rohan and Jones all wanted to go home, not to mention a few others.

Still have to pay up for academy picks - The whole comp had a free shot at Gulden, any pick above pick 19 and the swans could not have matched it.

At any point in the draft 7/10 of the next best players are vic based, the other 3 are likely SA and WA. It's very slim pickings for NSW and QLD clubs and would have to be extremely fortuitous to end up at a pick where one of the next best couple of players are home based.

You might see it as the biggest advantage, but without it, it would put them in a place of complete and utter disadvantage. Most people tend to want academies completely scrapped until they are blue in the face but don't offer up a solution that still acknowledges the disadvantage for those clubs.

The only time it would make sense to scrap the academies is when QLD and NSW grows to the extent of SA and WA. When there are more payers in the draft and out of contract at other clubs that are QLD and NSW based. Until then the discussion and any criticism is frugal.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Here's the advantages and AFL reasoning:

MCG GF as it's the biggest most iconic stadium in the game - this advantages the MCG tenants (and all Vic clubs) when they're good enough to make the GF.

Academy access - to grow the game - advantages the Northern clubs

Father Son - nostalgia and tradition - has historically advantaged the Vic clubs, but that advantage is reducing, but still exists gone and is worse for GC and GWS

Home Games and travel - that's just the nature of a home and away season in a national comp with more teams in Vic - probably advantages the Vic teams - but not seen in ladder positions, probably because the non-vic clubs get a bigger home ground advantage than their disadvantage when playing in Vic.

Gather Round - money - advantages the SA teams with an extra home game every year.

Home finals - some Vic clubs are disadvantaged as they don't actually get home ground finals - non vic clubs are more advantaged as they virtually always have an advantage without many neutral games.

No advantages for WA teams.

Personally, I think that academy access is the biggest advantage and the Northern clubs are set for a really good period.

A few corrections

NGA System, which was brought in just for Vic clubs, with WA and SA only have access to people after pick 40.

You missed percentage of home grown talent on your list.
Marquee fixtures
Free agency availability of players, plus A Grade top ups (especially from GC and GWS) especially to the top Vic clubs. (Non vics club do not have the same pool of players to select once they get a good list)
There is a good reason why when you look at the recent premiers, they have all features multiples players from other clubs e.g. Lynch, Cameron, May etc etc

 

[The 747]

A few corrections

NGA System, which was brought in just for Vic clubs, with WA and SA only have access to people after pick 40.

You missed percentage of home grown talent on your list.
Marquee fixtures
Free agency availability of players, plus A Grade top ups (especially from GC and GWS) especially to the top Vic clubs. (Non vics club do not have the same pool of players to select once they get a good list)
There is a good reason why when you look at the recent premiers, they have all features multiples players from other clubs e.g. Lynch, Cameron, May etc etc

A correction to your correction:

Non-Vic clubs have to compete with one other club for available talent, where Vic clubs are competing with nine other clubs.

 

[The 747]

Only you missed some advantages which is what the academies offset.

Even with the academies the NSW and QLD teams still have squads made up of mostly non home based players whilst vic clubs are 98% victorian. We all know what happens the second they are out of contract. It took 10 seconds after drafting Logan Mcdonald for Freo and WC to gawk their heads. Speaking for the swans - Our previous legitimate higher end picks - Jetta, dawson, Rohan and Jones all wanted to go home, not to mention a few others.

Still have to pay up for academy picks - The whole comp had a free shot at Gulden, any pick above pick 19 and the swans could not have matched it.

At any point in the draft 7/10 of the next best players are vic based, the other 3 are likely SA and WA. It's very slim pickings for NSW and QLD clubs and would have to be extremely fortuitous to end up at a pick where one of the next best couple of players are home based.

You might see it as the biggest advantage, but without it, it would put them in a place of complete and utter disadvantage. Most people tend to want academies completely scrapped until they are blue in the face but don't offer up a solution that still acknowledges the disadvantage for those clubs.

The only time it would make sense to scrap the academies is when QLD and NSW grows to the extent of SA and WA. When there are more payers in the draft and out of contract at other clubs that are QLD and NSW based. Until then the discussion and any criticism is frugal.

Academies are fine - they are a great thing for the competition and must continue - the only point of contention is the mechanism by which clubs pay for those players.

 

[go_the_dockers]

And non-Vic clubs have to compete with one other club for available talent, where Vic clubs are competing with nine other clubs.

Agree, but once you are a Vic club and in the top 4 the amount of talent willing to come to your club easily surpasses any non vic club.

You can also easily fill holes in your list e.g. target a forward, back, inside or outside mid, when a non vic club don't have the same options.

Therefore, it is easier to top up as a vic club, when you are in the premiership window, or extend the premiership window after winning a flag.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Academies are fine - they are a great thing for the competition and must continue - the only point of contention is the mechanism by which clubs pay for those players.

You need to minimise the impact they have on the first round as well. You can't have the 1st round going until pick 30.

If you fixed the points system, it would solve 90% of the problem.

 

[Gunf]

Academies are fine - they are a great thing for the competition and must continue - the only point of contention is the mechanism by which clubs pay for those players.

Leave them intact but no discount and a pick from that round has to be used.

E.g Player gets bid on at 1-18 they can choose to pass or match but they have to use a first round pick + any others needed to match.