Analysis Umpires

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Watching the game, I think one of the erosions of the game between the public perception and how the game is adjudicated relates to the holding the ball rule.

For those who don't have prior opportunity there is a clause which says:
For the avoidance of doubt, a Player does not elect to Incorrectly Dispose of the
football when:
(a) the Player genuinely attempts to Correctly Dispose of the football;

Now the AFL has been obsessed with the game continually moving so the wording of this rule has been interpreted incorrectly, and there is now no emphasise on the "genuinely" or the "correctly". The rule is being interpreted as:

(a) the Player attempts to Dispose of the football;

As long as the player attempts to move the ball on, they aren't penalised unless it is a blatant throw.


Link to this years rule book in case anyone is interested: AFL 2024 Rule Book
 
Good grief this umpire decision is getting way too much attention over here in Perth. The ABC is going full on and I'm finding it very annoying. I didn't watch the end of the match but bad decisions happen all the time. There will be one this weekend. Anyone would think that Freo were robbed of a GF. Bottom line you cannot argue with the umpires in any sport move on. How many teams have been felled from a bad decision? Move on.
 

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ajb72 said:
Watching the game, I think one of the erosions of the game between the public perception and how the game is adjudicated relates to the holding the ball rule.

For those who don't have prior opportunity there is a clause which says:
For the avoidance of doubt, a Player does not elect to Incorrectly Dispose of the
football when:
(a) the Player genuinely attempts to Correctly Dispose of the football;

Now the AFL has been obsessed with the game continually moving so the wording of this rule has been interpreted incorrectly, and there is now no emphasise on the "genuinely" or the "correctly". The rule is being interpreted as:

(a) the Player attempts to Dispose of the football;

As long as the player attempts to move the ball on, they aren't penalised unless it is a blatant throw.


Link to this years rule book in case anyone is interested: AFL 2024 Rule Book
Click to expand...
This has made things so much clearer on why such obvious free kicks are not payed when they should be, trust the AFL/rules committee to make the umpires job harder by clouding a simple rule for the sake of keeping the flow of the game in motion..

And this is the very root of why the umpires are officiating it incorrectly to how it should be by the the wording of the rules which are not only confusing but absolutely wrong…

Many of the obvious incorrect disposals overall as a whole can be improved significantly by correcting the interpretation written within the incorrect disposal rule…

I’ve mentioned this before, if a player in the process of hand balling or kicking and is caught/tackled in the process and not disposed of it legally then its incorrect disposal, there’s your prior opportunity, simplify the rule back to how it was originally and reward the players…

It is frustrating and a joke…
 
A lot is currently being made of a supposed bias towards Carlton in terms of umpiring decisions. A few Freo mates over here in Perth were childishly banging on all week in the lead up about how we have 19 players on the field blah blah, but all of the 6 of the 9 goals they kicked on the weekend from frees were for obvious free kicks that had to be paid in their favour.

A few things on the favourable free kick stats we are currently seeing:
- the first one is that we have two of the best key forwards in the game who routinely get held week in week out by lesser opponents who’s only objective is to stop them getting the ball using illegal means
- the second more understated one is even going back to the Bolton and Teague days we have been quick to adjust to rule changes eg the 50 for holding a player going for the give and go, the restricted zone, dissent for pointing to the screen, the rushed behind free, the “stand“ rule etc.
- Finally, we also don’t give away too many dissent 50s either which is a sign we respect the umpires and that extends to the coaches (Voss, Teague and Bolton) never making a big deal of umpiring decisions post game.

Compare and contrast to Richmond who have always been so undisciplined giving away 50s for kicking the ball away after a free has been awarded to the opposition, acting like they didn’t hear the whistle or not knowing the rule and constantly mouthing off at umps after a decision they didn’t like..I think they gave away 8 50s against us in that 2022 opening round game.

Fremantle have come out looking like a bunch of 10 year olds the way they have carried on after the weekends game. Clark trying to say he was swearing at “himself” whilst looking at the umpire is just pathetic, as was Pearce’s claim the umpire he spoke to didn’t know what was said like it was some conspiracy against them even though that umpires wasn’t the officiating umpire for the dissent decision in question. I reckon if they don’t put a sock in it soon and move on to the next game it might derail their season.

For the latter two points I reckon a lot credit should be given to the coaches for getting the players dialled into knowing the rules and also for teaching them to be respectful to be umpires. I know Bolton during his time always talked about helping the players become good people as much as good players and I think it shows so he (and Teague and Voss) deserves some credit for that.
 

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Revenant1965 said:
We did not lose because of umpiring. But that doesn't mean umpiring was OK. More than once I thought players dropped ball in tackle and wasn't paid HTB.
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This happens in every single game to all teams. The umpires are interpreting this, more, much more than often, as the ball being knocked out of the grasp by the tackler. IMO this interpretation is wrong and it is ruining the game all for the sake of keeping the game moving.

The strange thing is they allow packs to form and rugby like scrums and rolling mauls again to keep the game moving. This is not Aussie Rules.
 
There were at least 4 instances of Geelong players having clear prior opportunity then getting tackled and not dispossing of the ball correctly that were not paid HTB. The umpires have been fine in every other game, they make mistakes, they are human. But tonight they missed a ton. There was also the front on contact to TDK that saw him go to the rooms, the clear push in the back by the Geelong player who marked on the line, Williams getting hit high off the ball and Guthrie deliberate out bounds were particular howlers. We kicked ourselves out of the game but it was a pretty ordinary effort by the umps tonight.
 
I could go and umpire a game today, bounce the ball and when it goes out of the circle, call it back and I’d have done a better job than the guy yesterday.

I don’t understand how you miss it and let play continue.

A game also can be poorly umpired, umps can miss free kicks and the AFL could be encouraging poor application of the rules and it doesn’t mean it would have changed the outcome, but it shouldn’t be ignored or glossed over
 
Revenant1965 said:
Again, I will say we did not lose because of umpiring. Defend, better, kick straight... However, as a view re umpiring on the night...

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I am a bit over posters wanting to display the moral high ground or not call out outside influence. I favour calling a spade, a spade, even parochially extending to a shovel.

Three incidents clearly stated, and there were plenty more during the game. Most matches are blighted by the odd howler. We have regularly lost “the rub if the green” in the opening half of games, only to have most “even up” later in contests. In short, despite howlers, most games even up.

That was not the case in yesterday’s game. Absolutely we contributed to our own demise with poor decision making and poor skills. Clearly we had the chance to prevail regardless of the umpiring, which would have produced a “famous” win.

None of our shortcomings excuse the blatantly biased performances of the umpiring group, even the video review, which was inconclusive, demanding the “soft call” be upheld. On top of the ludicrous “non-touched” call against the crows, the review is a farce.

I have been around for a long time and witnesses a great many poor umpiring episodes, some favourable, but seemingly more non favourable. Never have I seen so much consistently blatant bias.

Our smalls cop a pasting in this board for lack of pressure, yet, when legitimate tackling pressure is applied, it is not rewarded.

I grew up on single umpire adjudication. The umpiring has gone backwards despite now using four of them and video reviews.
Yeah, yeah, don’t bash the umps, they are hard to get in the game at grass roots level, blah, blah, blah.

You shared an article depicting obvious short comings suggesting at very least frustration, but give magnanimous “views”. Too many want to gloss over the obvious because it is “the done thing”.

Let’s just call it out for what it was…
 
The umpiring has gone backwards at a rate of knots across the whole competition this year…

Yes our goal kicking yesterday was poor and was the major contributor to the loss…

However, when Geelong are gifted goals from bewildering calls…

  • Henry’s (ARC guess) when the soft call was a point…
  • 50 against Harry for swapping on the mark (they did it well before the umpire said stand)…

Then add all the non dropping the ball calls in our forward 50…

The result would have been different..

Anyway Geelong get their scalp and we drop back to the pack, look forward to playing them later in the year with some of our players back…
 
Unbelievable that people think umpiring wasn't a factor to the outcome....

Were there other reasons, of course... we have ourselves to blame for many things.

But to say umpiring doesn't impact the outcome is head in the sand stuff.

Henry in the back, then marks over the line (as it was called by the umps) only for inconclusive footage to somehow be deemed conclusive that it was a mark... - goal

Williams taken high off the ball by Henry... no call, play goes on, surprise, surprise, he's free and takes i50 mark - goal

So that's two goals Henry kicked that he shouldn't have

Cameron that was an absolute bs 50 - goal

So 3 absolute gifted goals that shouldn't have happened ... in a game we lost by 13 points...

That's not including the following bs:

Cats player soccers directly to the boundary line about 15m away, no team mate near it, no deliberate call, ball goes down the other end - goal

24 tackles i50 - not a single htb when there were at least 6 of them there
 
Blue_Fusion said:
Unbelievable that people think umpiring wasn't a factor to the outcome....

Were there other reasons, of course... we have ourselves to blame for many things.

But to say umpiring doesn't impact the outcome is head in the sand stuff.

Henry in the back, then marks over the line (as it was called by the umps) only for inconclusive footage to somehow be deemed conclusive that it was a mark... - goal
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Young is only 'effective' when he plays from behind and slaps the ball to somewhere neither he nor his team mates ar expecting - he is an easy player to move off the ball when in front position he should be expecting to be pushed as does every other decent defender and had every opportunity to kill the ball anyway - but his eyes dot really co-ordinate with any other part of his uncoordinated body anyway - his weaknesses have bene on display since he arrived and are there every game he plays I fully EXPECT him to be beaten in every situation he finds himself in and if he just succeeds in NOT advantaging the opposition it is a win - and he has far more losses than wins even doing that.
Blue_Fusion said:
Williams taken high off the ball by Henry... no call, play goes on, surprise, surprise, he's free and takes i50 mark - goal
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Staged falls on top of an awful awful kicking game - bloke is finding his feet again after ( another bout of missing games) irrelevant to teh game.
Blue_Fusion said:
So that's two goals Henry kicked that he shouldn't have

Cameron that was an absolute bs 50 - goal

So 3 absolute gifted goals that shouldn't have happened ... in a game we lost by 13 points...
Click to expand...

Now count up the easy the shot misses from OWies and Durdin and Harry....

Blue_Fusion said:
That's not including the following bs:

Cats player soccers directly to the boundary line about 15m away, no team mate near it, no deliberate call, ball goes down the other end - goal
Click to expand...

That was a bad umpiring call - for sure.
Blue_Fusion said:
24 tackles i50 - not a single htb when there were at least 6 of them there
Click to expand...

Maybe instead of piling on and playing schoolboy footabll- Carlton forward defending players might have kept an eye on outlet players? Perhaps that might have stopped teh walk out through the guts runs or the ridiculous amount of over the top to empty space joe the goose free hits they were allowed?

Sorry your own 'evidence' show me that umps had no bearing on teh final result - it was bad kicking and shyte defense simple as that.
 
Coona Blues said:
I am a bit over posters wanting to display the moral high ground or not call out outside influence. I favour calling a spade, a spade, even parochially extending to a shovel.

Three incidents clearly stated, and there were plenty more during the game. Most matches are blighted by the odd howler. We have regularly lost “the rub if the green” in the opening half of games, only to have most “even up” later in contests. In short, despite howlers, most games even up.

That was not the case in yesterday’s game. Absolutely we contributed to our own demise with poor decision making and poor skills. Clearly we had the chance to prevail regardless of the umpiring, which would have produced a “famous” win.

None of our shortcomings excuse the blatantly biased performances of the umpiring group, even the video review, which was inconclusive, demanding the “soft call” be upheld. On top of the ludicrous “non-touched” call against the crows, the review is a farce.

I have been around for a long time and witnesses a great many poor umpiring episodes, some favourable, but seemingly more non favourable. Never have I seen so much consistently blatant bias.

Our smalls cop a pasting in this board for lack of pressure, yet, when legitimate tackling pressure is applied, it is not rewarded.

I grew up on single umpire adjudication. The umpiring has gone backwards despite now using four of them and video reviews.
Yeah, yeah, don’t bash the umps, they are hard to get in the game at grass roots level, blah, blah, blah.

You shared an article depicting obvious short comings suggesting at very least frustration, but give magnanimous “views”. Too many want to gloss over the obvious because it is “the done thing”.

Let’s just call it out for what it was…
Click to expand...
.
The amount of 11/12 point turn arounds we had last night from the umpires non calls was pretty frustrating. The amount of 11 point turn arounds we had from our poor defense and woeful goal kicking was even worse though.

Carlton can publicly complain about the game in the media Geelong/Freo style or just quietly ask for a please explain if they want. I just don't want us to disgrace ourselves like Freo though. All their sooking about us and trying to push forward false narratives amounted to nothing when they were 10 goals down against WC last week.
 
Beer n Skittles said:
Pittonet was absolutely dominating the ruck early so Stanley turned it into a wrestle. Not only did he get away with completely ignoring the actual ball all game, when the umpires eventually decided to put a stop to it they gave the free to Stanley!
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To be honest I'd love to know why the hell that was allowed?

A lot of stoppages and centre clearances Stanley wasn't even looking at the ball. At one point Stanley was just holding Pitto while he was trying to ruck for a throw in and Pitto got penalised for being held?
 
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