The positives thread

[ZoBlitz]

Grand Final week certainly generated a whole heap of new Lions supporting BigFooty accounts, all of whom will no doubt stick around and make this board a better place.

Hey my first post was complaining about missing out of 2004 Grand Final tickets and I'm still around...

 

[dkalphy]

Wouldn't be worried at all, Fagan literally said what i always say, history shows you usually lose one before winning one. Pies lost to us in 18, we lost to Swans in 05 to win 06, we lost in 15 to win in 18, Geelong lost year before to win last year, list goes on and on.

 

[dlanod]

Wouldn't be worried at all, Fagan literally said what i always say, history shows you usually lose one before winning one. Pies lost to us in 18, we lost to Swans in 05 to win 06, we lost in 15 to win in 18, Geelong lost year before to win last year, list goes on and on.

FWIW I did the stats on that a while back. Some lose one and then win one, but a lot more lose one and never come back and winners usually just win straight up the first time.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Grand Final week certainly generated a whole heap of new Lions supporting BigFooty accounts, all of whom will no doubt stick around and make this board a better place.

Next time they login will be in 11.5 months time LOL. I loved the ones that wrote they have Lions family or friends who they were trying to help out!

 

[Mr Ripper]

FWIW I did the stats on that a while back. Some lose one and then win one, but a lot more lose one and never come back and winners usually just win straight up the first time.

If you tell the players that they’ll run with it. One thing I’ve noticed is footballers aren’t great at “doing their own research”.

 

[dlanod]

If you tell the players that they’ll run with it. One thing I’ve noticed is footballers aren’t great at “doing their own research”.

Except for Matho.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

FWIW I did the stats on that a while back. Some lose one and then win one, but a lot more lose one and never come back and winners usually just win straight up the first time.

Stats on the margin in those games would be interesting. Feels like the big losses are the ones who never make it back.

 

[dlanod]

Stats on the margin in those games would be interesting. Feels like the big losses are the ones who never make it back.

There aren't many close grand finals in general.

 

[McIvor]

Wouldn't be worried at all, Fagan literally said what i always say, history shows you usually lose one before winning one. Pies lost to us in 18, we lost to Swans in 05 to win 06, we lost in 15 to win in 18, Geelong lost year before to win last year, list goes on and on.

People said that about us when we lost our first few finals under Fagan yet I see Carlton made the finals this year and won two in a row. Appreciate your sentiments but I don’t agree with Fagan that you need to lose before you win because there’s too many examples contrary to that. Sounds like an easy excuse to justify failure.

 

[martinson]

You sound like Jelena Dokic's father.

I'm not agreeing necessarily in our case but history is littered with cases of teams winning finals and even going all the way without much prior finals experience or occasionally any at all of losing games.

Every team and case needs to be treated on its merits . At the end of the day you're either good enough or lucky/unlucky enough . Finals experience is obviously a big help but not a prerequisite.

The old chestnut you need to lose one before you win one is just another throwaway maxim.

 

[Daniel_Rich]

Fagan has taken this club from a basket-case to Grand Finalists where we narrowly lost to a club with every single advantage under the sun.

We're now a destination club and have added ridiculously huge names to our list such as Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

30

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

, Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

29

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

, Joe Daniher, and Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

.

We added two elite talents this year in Will Ashcroft and Jaspa Fletcher. We have another one coming soon in Levi Ashcroft.

At the end of the day, the only side that stood between us and premiership glory was the Pies, who had 8 of their best 22 aged 30 or above compared to our 3. They also had a lot more players with Grand Final experience including the pain of losing a close one. Now most of our list has that experience too.

Since this group shot up the ladder from 15th in 2018 to 2nd in 2019, we've played in a lot of finals "before our time" and generally struggled on our first attempt at each milestone (winning a final, winning a home final, winning a QF to get the week off, winning a PF to make the big dance). Each and every time we've gone back to the grind, won our way back into the same position, and eventually broken through. Now, we're finally in a position where breaking through one more barrier means premiership glory.

When we lost in the PF last year, plenty of media heads were ready to call our window closed. We responded by making the Grand Final.

If you offered me any list in the AFL with the aim to win as many of the next 5 premierships as possible, I would 100% take ours.

We have the talent, we have the depth, we have the young guns coming through and contributing, and now we have the experience on that final Saturday in September.

I firmly believe this group will win a flag and oh, how sweet it will be!

 

[lionshine]

I have to say one thing that does give me hope we can still improve further is the amount of young talent either just breaking through into our best 22 in the past year or so or right on the edge of doing so. Payne, Coleman, Dev, Wilmot, Lohmann, Ashcroft, Fletcher.

If these guys all improve next season with Levi Ashcroft set to come in end of next year, the quality of our side is in good shape for a number of years to come.

 

[Surly Boy]

This is fantastic from the club given the players must be hurting worse than we are.

 

[McIvor]

This is fantastic from the club given the players must be hurting worse than we are.

They’re a lot better than I am, I still haven’t recovered and very hurt and angry about it all to the point I had tickets to the after match function at Crown but couldn’t bring myself to attending or going to BSO the day after. This loss has no doubt cut me more than it should and my anger and disappointment is no doubt being mis-directed to the point I can’t see any positives and certainly not interested in any learnings.

Nonetheless, credit to the club, players and coaches who al probably want nothing more than to crawl under rock yet are publicly supporting their fans. That’s a massive positive.

 

[Mr Ripper]

They’re a lot better than I am, I still haven’t recovered and very hurt and angry about it all to the point I had tickets to the after match function at Crown but couldn’t bring myself to attending or going to BSO the day after.

You should have donated your drink voucher to ZoBlitz.

 

[Paul Mac]

They’re a lot better than I am, I still haven’t recovered and very hurt and angry about it all to the point I had tickets to the after match function at Crown but couldn’t bring myself to attending or going to BSO the day after. This loss has no doubt cut me more than it should and my anger and disappointment is no doubt being mis-directed to the point I can’t see any positives and certainly not interested in any learnings.

Nonetheless, credit to the club, players and coaches who al probably want nothing more than to crawl under rock yet are publicly supporting their fans. That’s a massive positive.

My daughter was the same as you but after attending Brunswick Street Oval and getting so many selfies with the players and getting her favourite framed picture of Lachie neale signed , i can tell you she walked away feeling just a little bit better in herself. Her comment in the car on the way home was " i'm glad we came today now Dad, i feel abit better now".

 

[BuntonRules]

They’re a lot better than I am, I still haven’t recovered and very hurt and angry about it all to the point I had tickets to the after match function at Crown but couldn’t bring myself to attending or going to BSO the day after. This loss has no doubt cut me more than it should and my anger and disappointment is no doubt being mis-directed to the point I can’t see any positives and certainly not interested in any learnings.

Nonetheless, credit to the club, players and coaches who al probably want nothing more than to crawl under rock yet are publicly supporting their fans. That’s a massive positive.

Try breathing excercises - in with the good, out with the bad.

 

[Rouge 9917]

People said that about us when we lost our first few finals under Fagan yet I see Carlton made the finals this year and won two in a row. Appreciate your sentiments but I don’t agree with Fagan that you need to lose before you win because there’s too many examples contrary to that. Sounds like an easy excuse to justify failure.

Apparently the Losing Grand Finalist
Has not made the following years GF since 2012

 

[martinson]

FWIW I did the stats on that a while back. Some lose one and then win one, but a lot more lose one and never come back and winners usually just win straight up the first time.

I thought everyone knew that.

But good work in validating it.

There's no golden rule in any of these things. If you're good enough you can do it . You could still lose. If you're not quite good enough you can still sneak one.

 

[JasRulz63]

Apparently the Losing Grand Finalist
Has not made the following years GF since 2012

Last time a side lost by 4 points in a Grand Final, they won it the next year (WC in 2005-6).

 

[Bosh Jootsma]

Last times/trends just don't matter in the end. It's a way to irrationally cope with the loss.

I believe it's more logical to look at our list an understand there are only 2-3 changes that could occur next season due to age/off contracts, so we are positioned well to compete again next season. But in terms of making/winning a grand final, nothing is guaranteed, though no doubt externally this is a must win season. Let's hope psychologically we are prepared for next season.

 

[Dalions]

Apparently the Losing Grand Finalist
Has not made the following years GF since 2012

But that team that lost the GF in 2012 went on to win 3 in a row.

 

[dlanod]

I thought everyone knew that.

But good work in validating it.

There's no golden rule in any of these things. If you're good enough you can do it . You could still lose. If you're not quite good enough you can still sneak one.

Given the sheer amount it gets repeated after most non-flogging grand finals as if it's an aphorism, no they do not know that.

 

[Viceregal]

Losing like Port's last try - unlikely to come back the next year
Losing like we did (and when we are on the up not like in 2004 trying to squeeze out just one more) - every chance.

Depends on the players ... if they feel they gave their best and it wasn't good enough so why bother then pain will be our future ... if they feel that they could have done better and are determined that next time they will do better then not quite so painful.

That being said if you lost by four points against four other teams for four GF's in a row ...

 

[martinson]

I'm not disagreeing with the optimistic takes on our future on this thread except to say there's no guarantee our younger players are going to be future stars. Or develop in the fashion that we need them to to stay competitive.

Most clubs are just as optimistic on their young talent.

We probably have next year near the top provided the players come back with the same motivation. After that I'm in the optimistic but need to wait and see boat. Lots of teams are building what look to be strong lists.