Food & Drink The Hangar Wine Thread! (posts moved from various locations)

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Hey Tesla. Loving your work. I find Burwood cellars to be pretty good. The place is tiny, packed to the rafters with wine and extremely eclectic but the boys know their wine and have such a wide range.
 
Looking forward to meeting Tesla1962 this week and learning a bit about Shiraz (particularly the tasting part). Thanks for the invitation to the Shiraz Day event, mate. Appreciate it.
 

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Where is my invite? :)
 
I know he would've invited me but understood getting over from Adelaide at short notice would've been too hard. I therefore thank him for not inviting me meaning I don't need to rue a lost opportunity.
 
sameolds33 said:
tasting part
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What is this tasting thing you talk of? It's drinking sameolds, drinking! Of course I would have invited you Doss Dero and Pweter had you lived in the Capital. sameolds33 let it slip a while back that he lived in Canberra. Seriously though, there is going to be some boring sciency stuff to wade through first and then some experimental wine made by researchers (gaaah) before we even get to the good stuff.
 
Doss said:
It's all good mate. When you're down here (or I'm up there) we'll catch up for a good claret or four.
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Another option is Malbec in Mendoza Doss when you are in South America - a special Tanked meets the Tango event. That would be well compatible with your honeymoon plans?
 
Me and sameolds33 toiling hard for the benefit of the NSW wine industry on Tuesday by working our way through flights of experimental wines (sulphides, tart, generally awful). We did end up getting to the good stuff. Sameolds, who totally smashed the blind tastings, has promised to write a review in due course.
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Mentos palate cleanser? :huh:
 
Beerfish said:
Mentos palate cleanser? :huh:
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not really, not sure what they were doing on the table
they can really **** with your olfactory perception of wine
mind you i did sneak some of the fruit ones during the research wines because they were so awful but it made the remaining wines appear even greener than they were
 
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It is not a party until the red cups come out.
 

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Ok, so sitting here with the cricket on (Lyon's just got the night watchman out) and a glass of Laughing Magpie, not a bad drop.

It was an unexpected but pleasant surprise to receive an invitation from tesla1962 to a Shiraz Day at the Mt Majura winery in Canberra. It was an industry event and my partner and I were the only two...err, consumers present. The others were from the industry; scientists, growers and wine makers. All very knowledgeable about wine in general and shiraz in particular. Probably best to leave the science to t62, who, it must be said, has excellent credentials both in the wine industry and, more importantly, in connection with the EFC.

So, as a completely ignorant outsider, these are my impressions of the event:

The first talk was on the history of shiraz in Australia. Clones are (I think) the genetic variety of (in this case, shiraz) grape. It differs from root stock which is the rest of the plant. Is that right t62?

There are about 13 or so shiraz clones in Australia, the most predominant is called 1654 which is mostly grown in SA - about 90% of the shiraz grown in SA is 1654. The main criteria for choosing any particular clone is yield (how big the bunches are; the bigger the bunch, the higher the yield, the more wine is produced). My impression was that t62 would like to see growers be more adventurous in their selection of clones but to date yield has been the main criteria. Penfolds apparently told their growers to plant a clone called R6 which had other desirable characteristics but is the lowest yielding clone. There was little interest from growers because there was less money in it.

The researcher who gave this talk was from SA and has been closely involved in wine production for his entire career. He led the tastings of the experimental wines (which, to my uneducated palate weren't as bad as t62 had led me to believe.) He was extremely passionate about his work, personally collecting the grapes from one of the locations used for the experimental wine to ensure that the conditions in the sample were comparable.

The second talk was on the shiraz export market by an economist. My notes say that:

  • there's been a shift in interest from SA shiraz to NSW shiraz which is more peppery;
  • there was a 500% growth of overseas sales of shiraz between 1990 and 2010 but sales are now declining;
  • 25% of Australia's vineyards grow shiraz grapes. The other main grape grown is chardonnay;
  • SA shiraz dominates overseas sales but the Canberra region is a leader in overseas shiraz sales outside SA;
  • Brexit has had a negative impact on shiraz sales, driving down export due to the decline of the GBP;
  • the two main overseas markets are the US (where wine in the $12 -15 is the best selling range, popular amongst millennials) and China (where more expensive wine >$20 is the best selling range);
  • Red blends are on the decline overseas;
  • wines that end on "o" are increasing in popularity overseas (see, science).
Then there was the tasting of the experimental wines. The red cups were the spittoons. Mine was not used enough - at all. I learned that tasting is a serious business. T62 and I were told off for distracting one of Australia's best tasters, sitting opposite us, with our mindless chatter. We may or may not have been talking about the no 1 draft pick.

Also, it is not pretentious to talk about pepper, chocolate, red fruits etc when everyone knows what they are doing. I may have skewed the sample tasting results. Also, serious tasters (who are not interested in the draft or the EFC and so less cultured than they might have you think) don't necessarily vote for the wine that they think tastes the best - they vote for the wine that has the most potential. There is skill and judgment in making good wine. It is a science.

The commercial tasting had some very good wine. I was not the only one who did not use the spittoon here. There were 3 sets of 4 wines in each flight. Some people have very good palates. I am not one of these. I had to have a little lie down when I got home. People working in the wine industry need to have stamina to start tasting at 1030am and discipline (to actually use the spittoon, when the wine is good.) It was interesting and fun. I do not think I have a future in the business, except as a consumer.

People were very open about exchanging information and knowledge. It appears to be a multi-million dollar, sophisticated cottage industry where people operate on a first names basis. Award-winning wine makers were present. One of them, a leader of the Charismatic Catholic movement used "grumpy" and "Jesuitistic" as wine descriptors. He also showed me a photo of his recent audience with the Pope. His wine was included in the tasting. It is very good. Blessed. Thanks again, Tesla1962.
 
It was indeed good fun, particularly listening to winemakers describe their wines. I don't have much to add to sameolds33 excellent summary.

Once again we were reminded how Australia owns Shiraz as a varietal wine. The amount of Shiraz grown in France and Australia dwarfs that grown in other countries. Although there is more grown in France, it goes into blends like cotes de Rhones and cote rotie. Even wines that are predominately Shiraz are not labeled Shiraz but rather things like Hermitage. Shiraz will continue to be the backbone of the the Australian industry and there is still plenty of scope for future growth.

The marketing guru did provide some evidence that Shiraz from cooler regions was commanding a higher price and more growth than that from warmer regions but the evidence that this was driven by demand for more 'elegant' cool climate wine styles compared to full bodied fruit driven styles was not so compelling. This may be true but the data was not that well differentiated IMO.

Canberra is an emerging region which can produce excellent and distinctive Shiraz. The high end clonakilla Shiraz Viognier is an stunning example but is around $100 a bottle. Sometimes this style which involves whole bunch fermentation and is almost perfumed is unfairly dismissed as being 'pretty'. It's a weird region in a lot of ways, many of the growers and winemakers have come from other walks of life and gone on to study winemaking/viticulture. For instance, on the table next to the table sameolds and me were on was a former speech writer for prominent labour politicians and an ex CSIRO geophysicist. It means that Canberra is full of small intimate cellar doors that are fascinating, if not a little whacky at times.

With the experimental wines, they are generally not acid adjusted, they don't see any oak and ours were diminished by sulphides. This meant that the tasters had to look past the wine to what it might be if it was acid adjusted, if it saw some oak, if it was blended with something else, how it might age. It was an insight into the expertise that comes into play when blending. I get the feeling that in many wine regions there will be more blending of clones and parcels of fruit from different aspects and parts of the vineyard to increase complexity and we consumers will see better Shiraz because of it.

As far as the commercial wines went, there was huge diversity. Thirty bucks up to $160 for a 2012 Dalwhinnie from the Pyrenees. The Dalwhinnie was pretty disappointing: just oak with dried out tannins and the complete absence of any fruit characters. It is a style that some like.

Highlights of the day in reverse order:

3. Me and sameolds being gently rebuked by the Master of Wine (MW) sitting opposite made me feel like I was back in school again.

2. Listening to winemakers describe their wines showed me that if you speak from a position of authority and with passion you can get away with almost anything. Along with 'grumpy' and 'Jesuitical' as mentioned above, the old 'monolithic' got a guernsey.

1. Discussing which footy matches we might go to next year with sameolds at morning tea and lunch.

PS the clonal guy didn't explain it very well but there are many more than 13 clones you can get in Aus.
 
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Thanks guys. I have picked myself up after not getting an invite as I hope Doss and Pweter have. I reckon Beery would have been up too. Sounds like a great event.

I love a good shiraz but in truth don't venture too far away from Barossa or Heathcote varieties and don't know heaps about them other than I like drinking them. My in laws are going through a GSM phase and brought me back some from the latest trip to the Barossa and I have enjoyed sharing them with them. I am quite enjoying the more subtle taste rather than the full on sledgehammer between the eyes of your traditional big Barossa shiraz.

Also, I posted before about how I love Pandalowie... I managed to get the last 5 boxes of Pandalowie CV blend! I am going to distribute them to my clients. I'd actually be keen to send one your way tesla1962 to get your thoughts.
 
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Happy to do that Dero but you would need more than my novice notes. I will sit down with the winemaker up here and the guy that lectures sensory to put together some tasting notes. My input will likely be minimal lol

PS CAPITALIZED TASTING NOTES
 
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fun fact: the compound that is largely responsible for various pepper descriptors in cooler climate Shiraz (e.g. Hawkes Bay NZ, Langi Ghiran) is called rotundone. About 20% of the population are anosmic to rotundone, meaning that one in five people can't detect it.
 
Now you have me wondering whether I am anosmic!
 
tesla1962 said:
fun fact: the compound that is largely responsible for various pepper descriptors in cooler climate Shiraz (e.g. Hawkes Bay NZ, Langi Ghiran) is called rotundone. About 20% of the population are anosmic to rotundone, meaning that one in five people can't detect it.
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I'm feeling a bit rotundone this morning. Had to suck the guts in a bit to get the trousers done up.
 
I grabbed a bottle of 2015 Heathcote Creek Shiraz last night and ended up pouring it down the sink.
 
Dero said:
I grabbed a bottle of 2015 Heathcote Creek Shiraz last night and ended up pouring it down the sink.
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what was the matter with it?
 
Dero said:
I grabbed a bottle of 2015 Heathcote Creek Shiraz last night and ended up pouring it down the sink.
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That's pretty young for Heathcote, or for any Shiraz really.
 
tesla1962 said:
what was the matter with it?
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A bit porty. My wife described it as the sort of wine her grandma would keep stashed away to be served to someone she didn't like.
Cost me $20 and is the first wine in a long time that I have not been able to drink.
Are you still in Wagga Wagga?
 
I reckon good wine is good wine and bad wine will not turn to good wine with age!
 
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